Roman Reigns as the ace post-Wrestlemania

[Boss Rock]

Welp, THAT happened! Most confusing finish to a match in recent memory.

[shodate]

To me, he's 1991 Lex Luger now. They might have had something had they seen the push through in the first place, but now it's too late to matter.

That is a bit extreme looks wise yes but roman is alot better worker than lex ever was while not my style was worker as a rule roman is soild worker around the mid to high ***'s range while based on what iv seen of him lex is not even ** worker

[Loss]

Luger was better than he was given credit for. I still agree Roman is better. However, my point was more about his positioning coming out of all of this.

[FMKK]

They have waited too long to just pull the trigger on Roman Reigns with a long run as champion. He's not The Guy anymore, if he ever was in the first place. He can't be. Reigns lost to the guy who has been booked as superior to him at every turn on the same show that another guy he has been pushed for the last year as "retiring" last year came back, a huge UFC draw had her first match to set up her place at the top of the company, and the beloved guy to whom he was unnecessarily compared returned after a long absence. Every single person in the opening match has beaten him cleanly in high profile matches, two of them on pay-per-view. He's done. Beating him hasn't made him sympathetic or won anyone over. Beating him has just beaten him, again and again.

Yeah, all time terrible booking imo. All they had to do was give him the title in 2015 or not pop him for Adderal in 2016 to keep his run going.

 

He might be historically unlucky coming right after the Bryan thing and being caught up in that shit-storm. Also, if he'd come along even two or three years later he'd have got an NXT run to smark-wash him so people don't have to pretend he's a bad worker for the sake of their narratives.

[shodate]

 

They have waited too long to just pull the trigger on Roman Reigns with a long run as champion. He's not The Guy anymore, if he ever was in the first place. He can't be. Reigns lost to the guy who has been booked as superior to him at every turn on the same show that another guy he has been pushed for the last year as "retiring" last year came back, a huge UFC draw had her first match to set up her place at the top of the company, and the beloved guy to whom he was unnecessarily compared returned after a long absence. Every single person in the opening match has beaten him cleanly in high profile matches, two of them on pay-per-view. He's done. Beating him hasn't made him sympathetic or won anyone over. Beating him has just beaten him, again and again.

Yeah, all time terrible booking imo. All they had to do was give him the title in 2015 or not pop him for Adderal in 2016 to keep his run going.

 

He might be historically unlucky coming right after the Bryan thing and being caught up in that shit-storm. Also, if he'd come along even two or three years later he'd have got an NXT run to smark-wash him so people don't have to pretend he's a bad worker for the sake of their narratives.

 

smark wash?

[Downend2005]

I will forever maintain that when the initial Shield split happened back in 2014, both Rollins and Reigns should have turned on Ambrose and aligned with The Authority, and basically from there they should have copied the Batista face turn in 2005 with Reigns. I think the slow burn turn and push would have stood a far greater chance of working, rather than Romans immediate push into the main event scene.

 

Roman looked cool as fuck cutting the 'baby girl' promo after a Shield/Wyatts match on Main Event. That guy could have been THE guy.

 

Also, thinking historically about some of WWF/E's top guys, namely Austin, Rock, Cena and Batista, all started out as heels and had the fans desperate to cheer for them before they were eventually turned (and I know Cena has been polarising since 2006, but the point stands regarding his initial turn). Roman has had fleeting moments where this was the case, but not a sustained run to the point where the people were dying to cheer for him, which is why his push feels forced and inauthentic.

[shodate]

the thing is roman was just unlucky to be as he began getting pushed as Bryan got over not only with the smarks but with a lot of the causals as well roman was unlucky in the 90's he would have gotten over cause fans were less smart to wwe booking Ideals.

[FMKK]

 

 

 

They have waited too long to just pull the trigger on Roman Reigns with a long run as champion. He's not The Guy anymore, if he ever was in the first place. He can't be. Reigns lost to the guy who has been booked as superior to him at every turn on the same show that another guy he has been pushed for the last year as "retiring" last year came back, a huge UFC draw had her first match to set up her place at the top of the company, and the beloved guy to whom he was unnecessarily compared returned after a long absence. Every single person in the opening match has beaten him cleanly in high profile matches, two of them on pay-per-view. He's done. Beating him hasn't made him sympathetic or won anyone over. Beating him has just beaten him, again and again.

Yeah, all time terrible booking imo. All they had to do was give him the title in 2015 or not pop him for Adderal in 2016 to keep his run going.

 

He might be historically unlucky coming right after the Bryan thing and being caught up in that shit-storm. Also, if he'd come along even two or three years later he'd have got an NXT run to smark-wash him so people don't have to pretend he's a bad worker for the sake of their narratives.

smark wash?

Make him acceptable to the sections of the crowd who think you can only be a good worker if youve been in ROH or New Japan

[Mad Dog]

 

 

You really can't compare between eras though. Hogan's air time from 1984-1989 probably is less than a year of a main event guy now. So 4 years of Roman is insane when you consider the air time that requires.

wrestling in wwe has not really changed in that time though booking mentality wise its been the same since hogan came in i ment total wcw/wwe time when he was fully active like roman is now or oi tink this is what that guy said

Roman is far more active than Hogan was. At the height of Hogan's popularity you could go a couple of weeks without him being on TV at all. And if he did show up, it was maybe for a 5 minute segment. Hogan also maybe wrestled at most 8 times on TV a year if we include PPV and that's probably on the generous side. So Hogan winning 8 matches is different than Reigns winning 40 matches and losing 10.

[Laz]

Also, if he'd come along even two or three years later he'd have got an NXT run to smark-wash him so people don't have to pretend he's a bad worker for the sake of their narratives.

I'm not pretending. He's fully capable of following a good lead and has gotten pretty great at selling/bumping, but his offense is garbage finisher spam, at least for the big matches I've seen over the last 4 years. I dare even say that I would take Justin Credible over him.

 

Reigns needs rehab. Hard. Have him come out tonight, cut an anti-Vince promo, and just leave for a few months. Trot him back out in June, sans that stupid fucking vest. The vest worked in the Shield because of the paramilitary/PMC gimmick, but it doesn't work when you're supposed to be THE GUY.

[shodate]

 

 

 

They have waited too long to just pull the trigger on Roman Reigns with a long run as champion. He's not The Guy anymore, if he ever was in the first place. He can't be. Reigns lost to the guy who has been booked as superior to him at every turn on the same show that another guy he has been pushed for the last year as "retiring" last year came back, a huge UFC draw had her first match to set up her place at the top of the company, and the beloved guy to whom he was unnecessarily compared returned after a long absence. Every single person in the opening match has beaten him cleanly in high profile matches, two of them on pay-per-view. He's done. Beating him hasn't made him sympathetic or won anyone over. Beating him has just beaten him, again and again.

Yeah, all time terrible booking imo. All they had to do was give him the title in 2015 or not pop him for Adderal in 2016 to keep his run going.

 

He might be historically unlucky coming right after the Bryan thing and being caught up in that shit-storm. Also, if he'd come along even two or three years later he'd have got an NXT run to smark-wash him so people don't have to pretend he's a bad worker for the sake of their narratives.

smark wash?

Make him acceptable to the sections of the crowd who think you can only be a good worker if youve been in ROH or New Japan

 

Ok the odd thing about that is i wager alot of them are owuld be fans of 90's all japan style wise is all New Japan style wise is its not new japan at it hart any more

 

that is all Most wrestling is now outside of lucha style wise is kings road that is sad do you not think

[Downend2005]

the thing is roman was just unlucky to be as he began getting pushed as Bryan got over not only with the smarks but with a lot of the causals as well roman was unlucky in the 90's he would have gotten over cause fans were less smart to wwe booking Ideals.

 

Daniel Bryan had already won the WWE title and was feuding with The Authority before The Shield had even split up. Bryan was already over and established before Reigns was pushed.

 

I'll grant you that the fans wanting Bryan in 2015 after his return from injury but getting Reigns instead probably did hurt Roman, but not beyond repair.

 

I can also think of several instances where fans have turned against booking plans in the 90s...

 

Sid being cheered over Hogan at Royal Rumble 1992

Bret being cheered over Luger at Royal Rumble 1994

Michaels being booed throughout 1996 and his boyhood dream WWF Title run

Sid being cheered over Michaels at Survivor Series 1996

Rocky Maivia being booed throughout the start of 1997

[El-P]

 

Also, if he'd come along even two or three years later he'd have got an NXT run to smark-wash him so people don't have to pretend he's a bad worker for the sake of their narratives.

I'm not pretending. He's fully capable of following a good lead and has gotten pretty great at selling/bumping, but his offense is garbage finisher spam, at least for the big matches I've seen over the last 4 years.

 

Agreed. The superman punch spamming is just dreadful to me, not to mention the spot itself is pretty goofy anyway as a one shot. I'm not making any narrative nor do I search excuses when I say I don't see shit in Roman Reigns as a top level guy. He's overrated as all hell now because of the pendulum effect, he gets way too much credit when he has a really good match considering who he's been working with. He's not bad, he's not great either. He's an ok guy put into position to work WWE^tm epics.

[Grimmas]

So now that Roman is out, who do you build around? Bryan is older. Maybe Finn or Rusev?

 

Actually, the answer is probably Ronda.

[KawadaSmile]

They fucked up their biggest name in a while.

 

When you see any dopey smark complaining about how WWE treated someone like Austin Aries or even Cody Rhodes, point at Roman's direction and whisper "that's what it looks like when they fuck you up".

 

Unless they pull some miracle booking, he is fucked.

[Mad Dog]

Yeah. He's both the most overrated and underrated guy out there. His haters give him no credit but his defenders go way overboard and act like he's way better than he really is. Aside from Braun, it would say more about him if he wasn't having good matches with people. He's above average on a roster filled with guys that are good to great.

 

He really needs 6 months off. Maybe get him to tweak some things in the ring and then bring him back full heel. Give the fans what they want and play to his strengths. He's not a particularly good or interesting face on his own and the booking hasn't helped that fact.

[Mad Dog]

So now that Roman is out, who do you build around? Bryan is older. Maybe Finn or Rusev?

 

Actually, the answer is probably Ronda.

You ride the Braun train until people are tired of it. They should have done that in September.

[Mad Dog]

They fucked up their biggest name in a while.

 

When you see any dopey smark complaining about how WWE treated someone like Austin Aries or even Cody Rhodes, point at Roman's direction and whisper "that's what it looks like when they fuck you up".

 

Unless they pull some miracle booking, he is fucked.

I'm no Cody fan but he just drew a shit ton of people to see his match with Kenny Omega. He has proven them wrong after needing some time to find himself.

[Loss]

If it was me, I'd have a talking segment involving the GMs and champions or something -- something to get Bryan and Brock in the same ring. Words get heated and Heyman overloads Brock with his mouth, setting up an impromptu match with both Bryan and Brock in street clothes that Bryan wins in about 3 minutes with a quick rollup. Give people their moment, then quickly get the belt to someone else. I don't think Bryan should be the guy they build around as champ for any length of time at this point (although I do think he should be in a great spot), but I think that's the best way to end the Brock run and buy them a little time.

[Downend2005]

So now that Roman is out, who do you build around? Bryan is older. Maybe Finn or Rusev?

 

Actually, the answer is probably Ronda.

Finn is older too.

 

If they were smart, they would build around Ronda, and make sure that she doesn't get wheeled out every week and suffer from the same overexposure and 50-50 booking. Having her wrestle on a random Raw against Dana Brooke or Alicia Fox won't do anything to keep her special.

 

Slightly off topic, but I can see WWE building to Ronda-Charlotte as the main for WM35. If that is the case, then Charlotte beating Asuka was the right move. I would have preferred it being via pinfall though, so you could still play up the fact that Asuka had never been submitted, and it would protect her own submission specialist billing. I also think a Asuka/Rousey submission match for the right to face Charlotte at WM would have had some money in it too.

[KawadaSmile]

I'm no Cody fan but he just drew a shit ton of people to see his match with Kenny Omega. He has proven them wrong after needing some time to find himself.

 

Look, Cody is doing his crazy ass schtick and he's a B-Miz with dashes of Riddler, which is good. But you really cannot say he was busting his ass in WWE, or that he was fucked like Roman for the last years or so. He still had his cute ass lil' indie list of people who he could go over clean (making ZSJ tap lol) while having mediocre shit.

 

He's more of a guy that was lost in the turmoil than someone who had the spotlight on him during every single crazy ass brooking decision.

[Mad Dog]

I would have had Braun pin him with that first Powerslam back in September and just gone fill speed ahead with Braun as the guy.

[Loss]

I think Braun could work short-term, but he's a tough one long-term because he can't really get over his challengers to hype matches. How do you convince people that he might lose?

[Mad Dog]

 

 

I'm no Cody fan but he just drew a shit ton of people to see his match with Kenny Omega. He has proven them wrong after needing some time to find himself.

 

Look, Cody is doing his crazy ass schtick and he's a B-Miz with dashes of Riddler, which is good. But you really cannot say he was busting his ass in WWE, or that he was fucked like Roman for the last years or so. He still had his cute ass lil' indie list of people who he could go over clean (making ZSJ tap lol) while having mediocre shit.

 

He's more of a guy that was lost in the turmoil than someone who had the spotlight on him during every single crazy ass brooking decision.

He's a case of how they pigeon hole guys though. He is a fuck up because he could be doing this stuff for them and maybe drawing money but they typecast him. They need to let guys like him experiment in the lower card instead of just the endless script they use.

[Mad Dog]

I think Braun could work short-term, but he's a tough one long-term because he can't really get over his challengers to hype matches. How do you convince people that he might lose?

If he gets you a year and you burn him out is it that big a deal? You can cross that bridge later. I think people just want to see him cause mayhem. Maybe experiment with injury angles when it starts to lose steam.