Roman Reigns as the ace post-Wrestlemania

[FMKK]

I wonder if they get cold feet every time it's time to pull the trigger. They really want him to be the guy and then at the last minute they realize it might hurt ratings.

Hes still been a featured star for five years or something so if he was going to damage ratings it would already have happened. I know they arent the be all and end all but he tends to be in the top bracket of stars on their YouTube videos so theres obviously some interest in him, just not from the sorts that go to the shows - especially the big ones.

 

Besides, Seth Rollins got a 9 month title run that only ended due to injury even though it was an all-time ratings killer. I dont think thats the primary concern.

[fakeplastictrees]

Is it possible that WWE is just trying to wear down the 'smarter' element of the audience? I will 100% admit this is a huge conspiracy theory and Vince would be the ultimate genius to pull this off, but hear me out. After the Rumble fiasco, Vince realizes he needs to do an extremely slow and unconventional build for Roman. Its a mixture of 1985 Hogan booking and 2006 Mysterio booking. A weird mix indeed, but one that will eventually wear out the biggest anti-Roman fan. Slowly and frustratingly changing the sentiment from hate/anger to complete apathy and overall acceptance. The kids and women will continue to cheer for Roman--the large male demo that boos him will finally just be glad that 'its all over' and WWE isn't purposely fucking stuff up anymore. No more derailing a person like Bryan, no more lazy matches from a person like Brock, and very few (if any) castrating promos from a person like Stephanie. I don't think WWE wants another Cena in the reactions department, and 'traditional booking' (or so is the theory) isn't going to prevent that from happening. Thus this weird hybrid comprised of meta neo comparative mythos and pro wrestling psychology as understood by the most jaded fan.

[Boss Rock]

The only downside is that they risk alienating the fans who do love him.

[Boss Rock]

 

I wonder if they get cold feet every time it's time to pull the trigger. They really want him to be the guy and then at the last minute they realize it might hurt ratings.

Hes still been a featured star for five years or something so if he was going to damage ratings it would already have happened. I know they arent the be all and end all but he tends to be in the top bracket of stars on their YouTube videos so theres obviously some interest in him, just not from the sorts that go to the shows - especially the big ones.

 

Besides, Seth Rollins got a 9 month title run that only ended due to injury even though it was an all-time ratings killer. I dont think thats the primary concern.

 

 

I think there was a bit of a ratings drop-off when he became champ in 2016 but that's more or less kind of stabilized.

[Matt D]

The only downside is that they risk alienating the fans who do love him.

 

Booking matters. How he carries himself matters. I swear there was a moment last night where they quickly switched camera shots because it looked like the guy was pouting in the ring. That sort of thing has an effect on casuals (so much as they exist).

 

If he went out last night and cut a promo saying that one F5 had taken out Braun, that one had taken out AJ, that he had survived 24 or whatever, that when Randy Orton was busted open, they stopped the match, but he kept going, etc,then they could have still built to the Saudi Arabia show. Instead, he cut a match puzzled about the booking and saying that he guesses if they keep giving him title matches, he'd eventually probably be bound to win?

 

Whatever you want to say about it and why they're doing it, it's definitely weird.

[KawadaSmile]

Considering one of the last shots we got of Roman was him with his head down, looking angry and dissapointed, I am inclined to think that despite this dreadful booking, the end goal is the turn.

 

Paranoid, angry Roman wouldn't be so bad, but it's a shame we got such career-killing booking.

[El-P]

Is it possible that WWE is just trying to wear down the 'smarter' element of the audience? I will 100% admit this is a huge conspiracy theory and Vince would be the ultimate genius to pull this off, but hear me out. After the Rumble fiasco, Vince realizes he needs to do an extremely slow and unconventional build for Roman. Its a mixture of 1985 Hogan booking and 2006 Mysterio booking. A weird mix indeed, but one that will eventually wear out the biggest anti-Roman fan. Slowly and frustratingly changing the sentiment from hate/anger to complete apathy and overall acceptance. The kids and women will continue to cheer for Roman--the large male demo that boos him will finally just be glad that 'its all over' and WWE isn't purposely fucking stuff up anymore. No more derailing a person like Bryan, no more lazy matches from a person like Brock, and very few (if any) castrating promos from a person like Stephanie. I don't think WWE wants another Cena in the reactions department, and 'traditional booking' (or so is the theory) isn't going to prevent that from happening. Thus this weird hybrid comprised of meta neo comparative mythos and pro wrestling psychology as understood by the most jaded fan.

 

Hum… interesting...

 

Ok, you're overthinking the hell out of it. It's Vince McMahon and the WWE we're talking about here.

[Laz]

I wouldn't even say it would be Vince's idea. Seems more a HHH thing. I went on a brief rant about how HHH is the best meta heel around, and I'll share it (bear in mind: 6 hours of sleep over 2 days, a night of smoking).

 

[HHH] knows we all hate how seriously he takes himself as an all-timer when most would say he peaks at above-average, that he married in and doesn't deserve half the push he got. There is also no way he hasn't watched "Wrestling Isn't Wrestling" after it went viral because it was a video by a popular HOLLYWOOD SCREENWRITER and, of course, focused on him.

 

He has played deeper into that video's portrayal of him ever since, actively working behind the scenes to make the overall product better and better. NXT, the Rousey signing, working part-time and showing more ass than he had in years. SERIOUSLY, he'll forever deserve this credit and is openly hands-on and supportive of everybody who works in NXT, or anybody else he thinks is worth a long-term investment.

 

He's planning for the future and openly humblebrags about it, but then puts himself front and center over so many that the fans prefer and knows we won't stop watching when the rest of the show is so great. He knows we hate that he's always around but won't stop watching because there's so much other good stuff, and he is LOVING it.

 

Who the hell says kayfabe is dead?

[Mad Dog]

 

I wonder if they get cold feet every time it's time to pull the trigger. They really want him to be the guy and then at the last minute they realize it might hurt ratings.

Which is weird because they are well equipped to handle whatever problems may come with pulling the trigger on him. They have a lot of options in every direction if it doesn't work out. Now that they have Rousey and she proved she can do pro wrestling, they have someone to help back up a Reigns run with a strong run of her own. But they treat Reigns almost like the NFL team who picks a QB way too early because they had to, then realizes they made the wrong pick but they are too embarrassed to admit it (kinda like NY Jets with Christian Hackenberg). So he's there as a specter over the rest of the roster. A reminder of the mistakes they made. And continue to make.

It's the only real explanation that makes sense. It's like they get 90% of the way there with him and then stop. I know the first time he got a Wellness strike so that was an odd one. But think about things like Survivor Series 2015 where they did the cash in on him.

 

He's kind of become Wile E Coyote or Elmer Fudd in regards to the belt.

[Mad Dog]

 

I wonder if they get cold feet every time it's time to pull the trigger. They really want him to be the guy and then at the last minute they realize it might hurt ratings.

Hes still been a featured star for five years or something so if he was going to damage ratings it would already have happened. I know they arent the be all and end all but he tends to be in the top bracket of stars on their YouTube videos so theres obviously some interest in him, just not from the sorts that go to the shows - especially the big ones.

 

Besides, Seth Rollins got a 9 month title run that only ended due to injury even though it was an all-time ratings killer. I dont think thats the primary concern.

I don't think he would be a huge negative. Certainly not a disaster like Rollins was but I don't think he moves the needle in a positive way either. Being a net neutral isn't necessarily bad though when it comes to being on top.

 

Maybe this is just a short sighted choice to wait for the rematch. Which is stupid. That was the kind of job that you don't come back from.

[Zoo Enthusiast]

The only downside is that they risk alienating the fans who do love him.

Part of my deciding to attend live this year was KNOWING it was going to be his moment, so I was pretty bummed when he lost.

 

On another note, I just finished listening to the reaction show with Zellner and Dem Hales Boys and they had been talking about all kinds of backstage machinations that had possibly taken place before the match. Has any of that been fleshed out further yet?

[Boss Rock]

 

The only downside is that they risk alienating the fans who do love him.

Part of my deciding to attend live this year was KNOWING it was going to be his moment, so I was pretty bummed when he lost.

 

On another note, I just finished listening to the reaction show with Zellner and Dem Hales Boys and they had been talking about all kinds of backstage machinations that had possibly taken place before the match. Has any of that been fleshed out further yet?

 

 

One report from Justin Barrasso at SI that the finish was changed that day because Reigns wasn't getting the responses they had hoped and they were hoping to get a better one at the Rumble. Not sure how accurate that is though.

[Robert S]

 

The only downside is that they risk alienating the fans who do love him.

Part of my deciding to attend live this year was KNOWING it was going to be his moment, so I was pretty bummed when he lost.

 

On another note, I just finished listening to the reaction show with Zellner and Dem Hales Boys and they had been talking about all kinds of backstage machinations that had possibly taken place before the match. Has any of that been fleshed out further yet?

 

Dave Meltzer said that backstage almost no one knew that Lesnar was going to win. The referee was only told so once he was in the ring.

[sek69]

So why is the expectation that Roman is going to get a better response at the Rumble when the part of the fanbase that would cheer him (women) won't be allowed to attend?

[FMKK]

 

 

The only downside is that they risk alienating the fans who do love him.

 

Part of my deciding to attend live this year was KNOWING it was going to be his moment, so I was pretty bummed when he lost.

On another note, I just finished listening to the reaction show with Zellner and Dem Hales Boys and they had been talking about all kinds of backstage machinations that had possibly taken place before the match. Has any of that been fleshed out further yet?

Dave Meltzer said that backstage almost no one knew that Lesnar was going to win. The referee was only told so once he was in the ring.

Kris mentioned the idea of Brock sort of hint hint refusing to do the job prior to the match. I wonder why then, if Brock got what he wanted, he supposedly had such a confrontation with Vince afterwards. And how much of this is working the boys bs? I always feel that that's a factor when it comes to Brock.

[KawadaSmile]

I think it's more that the people that hate him won't be there.

[Boss Rock]

Dave's scoops in WWE have been shaky at best lately so I usually take that with a grain of salt. But the online scoopster consensus seems to be that the finish was changed at time that day.

[sek69]

The only thing that makes sense is if Brock did have a deal in place to leave for UFC, but Vince changed his mind about pulling the trigger at WM again meaning Brock had to stay longer. Why else would he have a fit backstage that was said to involve him throwing the belt at Vince?

 

*edited for clarity* What I mean by that is it seems Brock had a plan to fleece UFC for another fat deal and Vince kind of fucked it up by being Vince.

[Zoo Enthusiast]

 

 

 

The only downside is that they risk alienating the fans who do love him.

Part of my deciding to attend live this year was KNOWING it was going to be his moment, so I was pretty bummed when he lost.

On another note, I just finished listening to the reaction show with Zellner and Dem Hales Boys and they had been talking about all kinds of backstage machinations that had possibly taken place before the match. Has any of that been fleshed out further yet?

Dave Meltzer said that backstage almost no one knew that Lesnar was going to win. The referee was only told so once he was in the ring.

Kris mentioned the idea of Brock sort of hint hint refusing to do the job prior to the match. I wonder why then, if Brock got what he wanted, he supposedly had such a confrontation with Vince afterwards. And how much of this is working the boys bs? I always feel that that's a factor when it comes to Brock.

to

Yeah, that was my first impression when I was hearing this stuff. They tried too hard to work people when they leaked out the UFC news and it derailed the match even more than it already would have. There were "you both suck" chants very early in the match where I was sitting.

[Richeyedwards]

 

 

 

 

The only downside is that they risk alienating the fans who do love him.

Part of my deciding to attend live this year was KNOWING it was going to be his moment, so I was pretty bummed when he lost.

On another note, I just finished listening to the reaction show with Zellner and Dem Hales Boys and they had been talking about all kinds of backstage machinations that had possibly taken place before the match. Has any of that been fleshed out further yet?

Dave Meltzer said that backstage almost no one knew that Lesnar was going to win. The referee was only told so once he was in the ring.

Kris mentioned the idea of Brock sort of hint hint refusing to do the job prior to the match. I wonder why then, if Brock got what he wanted, he supposedly had such a confrontation with Vince afterwards. And how much of this is working the boys bs? I always feel that that's a factor when it comes to Brock.

to

Yeah, that was my first impression when I was hearing this stuff. They tried too hard to work people when they leaked out the UFC news and it derailed the match even more than it already would have. There were "you both suck" chants very early in the match where I was sitting.

 

Those chants were loud enough to come across on tv. I think the other ones were this is awful, boring and cm punk, there might have been others but those were the ones i remember there was also some cheering every so often which i assume was for a beachball.

[WingedEagle]

From all accounts Brock is simply concerned with his paycheck.

[sek69]

Yeah there's been zero evidence he's ever refused to job to someone, he just makes them look like shit if he doesn't think they're at his level.

[FMKK]

 

 

I wonder if they get cold feet every time it's time to pull the trigger. They really want him to be the guy and then at the last minute they realize it might hurt ratings.

Hes still been a featured star for five years or something so if he was going to damage ratings it would already have happened. I know they arent the be all and end all but he tends to be in the top bracket of stars on their YouTube videos so theres obviously some interest in him, just not from the sorts that go to the shows - especially the big ones.

 

Besides, Seth Rollins got a 9 month title run that only ended due to injury even though it was an all-time ratings killer. I dont think thats the primary concern.

I don't think he would be a huge negative. Certainly not a disaster like Rollins was but I don't think he moves the needle in a positive way either. Being a net neutral isn't necessarily bad though when it comes to being on top.

 

Maybe this is just a short sighted choice to wait for the rematch. Which is stupid. That was the kind of job that you don't come back from.

 

 

If he was going to be at best a neutral to minor net negative then the sensible decision would still be just to let him have the belt for six months and get this thing over the hump once and for all while signalling to fans that the endless stop-start is over. I think that would ease a lot of the frustration tbh, just for fans to know that we've finally got to the next stage of the push. Then if they aren't satisfied, get the title onto Braun or Lashley at Summerslam and either turn the guy or give him a few months away from TV to regroup. Ronda can be the draw now anyway.

[The Thread Killer]

I'm confused about all these stories going around. First we assumed Brock was leaving and Roman was winning. Then Brock wins, and we hear Brock is staying and there are even rumors Vince is finally souring on Roman. Now the hot new rumor is that Brock really is leaving, and the story that he isn't is just a "work?" On top of that, you get these rumors that Brock threw the belt at Vince and Shane after his match, rumors that Vince changed the finish either right before the fight or if you believe some people, during the fight. Stories that the Anoa'i family are super-pissed at Vince (again.) There are rumors Vince is doing this because rich Saudis are paying him a ton of money for a title change on April 27. Now some people are saying Roman's promo on Raw last night was a "worked shoot."

 

I wish I knew how much of this was true and how much is a strange attempt at some new kind of Russo-esque working the boys/media/fans deal.

 

Anybody have any theories on which parts of these stories are actually true?

[Robert S]

Yeah there's been zero evidence he's ever refused to job to someone, he just makes them look like shit if he doesn't think they're at his level.

In the physical condition he currently he is in he will make everyone, including himself, look like shit. It's funny looking at him that there is talk of him fighting in UFC again. If he does it's really just a cash-grab because at this point he is in worse shape than 50 year-old PCO. I am sure that from a pure skill-level there are some heavyweights in UFC that Brock can hold on the mat for 15 minutes, but at this point any top 20 heavyweight will anihilate him.