All Elite Wrestling

[El-P]

Funniest thing is that it was actually a botch. There was no black mist. It was pretty much a transparent mist that she sold. Maybe they can pretend it was all a dream.  

Not turning the other week was a complete misfire, rendered worst by the fact the crowd was begging her to bash Varsity Club 1 (or 2) with the chair and unveil her black, rotten, evil eye. She would have got a big-ass pop.

[SirEdger]

8 hours ago, El-P said:

This.
The whole "MJF is frustrated and probably won't re-sign" has been debunked already.

But yeah, of course not everybody is gonna be happy. It's not the honeymoon period anymore, so much talent competing for spots now. And really, Coach TK will have to settle the fuck down and delegate some if he doesn't wan't to drive himself insane. It's only human. The idea of running ROH honestly I never thought was a good idea, and seems even less of a good idea with weeks passing by. Two many belts that don't mean anything, too many talents and shows to handle, and the AEW brand should be the absolute priority.

As far as some people being frustrated, it seems pretty obvious. The Julia Hart angle has been a mess, should have been done in three weeks. Reveal Julie Hart as a member of House of Black already ! The Men of the Year vs Sammy & Tay angle is spiraling down a Kevin Sullivanesque vortex of insanity that needs to be stopped tomorrow. Do the mixed tag match already !  Some stuff don't get addressed like Anna Jay losing her BFF, that's a feud for Tay that writes itself. Tons of stuff could be better, for sure, and it doesn't seem illogical that some people are unhappy and frustrated. But "every single of us" ? Come on now...

AEW needs a Scott D'Amore. Best week-to-week-to-PPV guy of the last 20 years. I've just said it.

He's flying under the radar but yes, Scott D'Amore never stretches an angle needlessly. He gets to the point so he can start the next chapter properly.

[sek69]

"MJF is just Miz with swearing" is quite an unusual take, as I don't think Miz would be able to get the level of heel heat MJF gets even if he was doing Bubba Ray Dudley in ECW level promos. MJF has tapped into the idea that a heel should be completely despicable and not a cool guy at a level not seen in decades. When most heels try to be Kevin Nash, he's Tully Blanchard. 

[KawadaSmile]

2 minutes ago, sek69 said:

"MJF is just Miz with swearing" is quite an unusual take, as I don't think Miz would be able to get the level of heel heat MJF gets even if he was doing Bubba Ray Dudley in ECW level promos. MJF has tapped into the idea that a heel should be completely despicable and not a cool guy at a level not seen in decades. When most heels try to be Kevin Nash, he's Tully Blanchard. 

But Miz does just that! No one *likes* him or cheers for him. He isn't even a homer for his hometown like MJF is for Long Island!

[sek69]

Miz *tries* to do that but comes off as Guy Playing Pro Wrestler. MJF comes off like a legit douchebag with no redeeming qualities (except for people in Long Island). If anything, MJF is a better Miz than Miz could ever dream to be. 

[El-P]

Miz is a guy who's great at spewing WWE verbiage in medias and looking good and clean doing it. He's only been watchable whenever his wife was at his side and after 15 years can't make anything better than "passable" inside the ring (those kicks, seriously, when it was a troll on Bryan it was at least somewhat acceptable, but for fuck's sake). There's nothing comparable with MJF, who's the best heel promo in pro-wrestling in the last 30 years, and a really good worker inside the ring too. I had to say it, because really now, The Miz is about every reason rolled into why as I can't stand what WWE stands for in term of presentation.

[strobogo]

Miz had a face run where he was pretty over not long after his first WWE Championship win. 

 

 

Anyway, can't say I'm excited at all for the Owen finals being Adam Cole vs Joe or especially KOR. Cole is so overexposed, even more than he was the last year or two in NXT. Really the whole thing has seemed very scattershot even if it has produced some quality matches.

[Tetsujin]

The Owen tournament has been a huge disssapointment (specially the male one, but there are awful things common to both genres). Hell I enjoyed the "tournament qualifyers" more (even if I dislike that concept a lot, just put them all on the freaking thing!). Too short, questionable names and victories, unexciting (Johnny)/wasted (Itoh) jokers, and an overall feel of "this shit isn't important enough and they are doing it just for good wrestling marketing or whatever". Why aren't any champions competing in it? What are the personal connections most of these guys have with Owen to want to win it? It could have been handled much, much better and make it unique. Right now, it reminds me of one of those rushed KOTR WWE made sometimes when they couldn't give a shit about that stuff. If the Owen tournament becomes an annual tradition, for the love of god give it a better presentation and more attractive names.

I'm not liking the whole PPV build up, tbh. Page/Punk is going surprisingly slow; BCC were lost for weeks and now will work with the weakest stable of the whole company, just as anchors for a feud that should already be finished (Jericho/Kingston); the TNT scene has become garbage; the tag scene feels like in hiatus until JE lose the titles... There are programs I'm kinda enjoying like MJF/Wardlow or the stupid Hookhausen stuff, and it's not like the matches don't have potential to be good: all of them have, my criticism is with the road to them, because I don't feel nearly as much excitement as I was feeling for the previous PPV.

[El-P]

Let's put this out there : straight tournaments in pro-wrestling are never very interesting, because the booking makes a lot of results obvious, without being satisfying because there's not more to them than what they are (since there's no other issue than "win the match", so I guess the only setting in which it can work is pure sports-like context like shoot-style, or something attached to a different gimmick, like Pure Style in ROH, which is akin to modern shoot-style of sorts). They never draw either. A well booked G1 style stuff can be awesome. Straight tournaments *never* deliver. One could have hoped the Owen would have been something different but oh well.

I for one have enjoyed most of the matches, and Cole vs Joe as a final really appeals to me. On the other hand, as I said, Ruby Soho getting to the finals against Baker is meh. Unless they pull the upset and make it Toni Storm, which they *should*. Still, in that case Storm vs Riho would have been the banger to go toward.

[ragemaster]

The last great tournament was the 1993 king of the ring.

[NintendoLogic]

The V*Top tournament at Big Egg Universe was pretty great as well. It seems that knockout tournaments work best when done over a single night.

[El-P]

Agreed. Both would be exception, although the KOTR93 was really only great when Bret Hart was in the ring. V*Top was awesome also because it was AJW at its 90's peak going to the Dome, and Hokuto having her moment of glory.

Tournaments were also one go-to of Vince Russo. He LOVED to book tournaments, because it's a great crutch when you actually don't have any idea, plus you can book of bunch of swerves, bro.

[ragemaster]

Forgot about the  V*Top tournament

[strobogo]

2 hours ago, El-P said:

Agreed. Both would be exception, although the KOTR93 was really only great when Bret Hart was in the ring. V*Top was awesome also because it was AJW at its 90's peak going to the Dome, and Hokuto having her moment of glory.

Tournaments were also one go-to of Vince Russo. He LOVED to book tournaments, because it's a great crutch when you actually don't have any idea, plus you can book of bunch of swerves, bro.

This is why I find Spring Stampede 2000 to be the worst WCW PPV. This shit head had 3 different tournaments going on the same show.

[DMJ]

Late to the party, but put me in the camp that thinks this is MJF perpetually "working." 

To a hardcore AEW fan, it is heelish to spout off about being "underappreciated by AEW" (who are seen as a 'babyface' promotion) and to speak so confidently about how if he went to WWE, he'd be the biggest star there. 

But the pesky reality is that MJF, as much as he carries himself like a star, is still under 6 feet and would probably seem to Vince like a great manager or maybe even commentary guy rather than an actual main event level wrestler. I mean, if its to be believed that Adam Cole - a good-not-great promo - was going to be used as a manager, then MJF, a guy that is most known for his promos (even if his in-ring game is maybe underrated) has very little chance of being seen as anything more than that by Vince. I'm an MJF fan, but everything we've seen in the WWE over the past 4-6 months has pointed to Vince and Nick Khan very clearly wanting to build the future around guys and gals with legit sport backgrounds and size because they believe charisma and TV presence can be taught. That's why Pete Dunne is "Butch" and they changed NXT entirely. Its why Bron Breaker (who I also like and is at least billed as  6'0'') is being seen as the future and why Madcap Moss (6'3''/245 lbs) is a bigger priority than Finn fucking Balor (who happens to be a really good wrestler with many years of good wrestling ahead of him and a very handsome face and a relatively big fan base and a resume of proven success but is also 5'11 and under 200 pounds).  Kudos to MJF for trying to get a bidding war going and I hope he succeeds...but, yeah, I don't think Vince is going to back up the Brinks truck for someone he sees as a manager. 

[sek69]

Vince absolutely would back up the Brinks truck to poach a top star from his biggest competitor. I agree he won't get anything about what makes MJF great and have him be in the same role LA Knight ended up in.

[The Thread Killer]

On 5/21/2022 at 4:18 PM, El-P said:

Miz is a guy who's great at spewing WWE verbiage in medias and looking good and clean doing it. He's only been watchable whenever his wife was at his side and after 15 years can't make anything better than "passable" inside the ring (those kicks, seriously, when it was a troll on Bryan it was at least somewhat acceptable, but for fuck's sake). There's nothing comparable with MJF, who's the best heel promo in pro-wrestling in the last 30 years, and a really good worker inside the ring too. I had to say it, because really now, The Miz is about every reason rolled into why as I can't stand what WWE stands for in term of presentation.

I seem to make it a point to only agree with @El-P about twice a year, since we seem to have totally divergent opinions on pretty much all things related to Pro Wrestling. This appears to be one of the rare occasions I couldn’t agree with him more. When the man is right, he’s right.

Seriously. The Miz is infinitely inferior to MJF by pretty much every measurable metric. It’s not even close, really.  Sure, Miz might be one of the best at cutting scripted, Vince language, approved verbiage, WWE style heel promos. But if you put him in the ring across from MJF with a microphone in his hand and no script? MJF would eat his lunch.

And in the ring, MJF just keeps getting better and better. MJF has had better matches in AEW over the past 12 months than Miz has had his entire career. Miz can’t even master throwing a goddamn worked kick. Honestly,  he’s the shits. People really need to stop comparing the two of them because it’s not even close. Miz reminds me more of Peter Avalon than he does of MJF.

[The Thread Killer]

5 hours ago, El-P said:

Tournaments were also one go-to of Vince Russo. He LOVED to book tournaments, because it's a great crutch when you actually don't have any idea, plus you can book of bunch of swerves, bro.

Ugh, I still have nightmares about that god awful Survivor Series “Deadly Games” tournament he booked, or even worse that WCW World Title tournament. SO. SHITTY.

[El-P]

9 hours ago, The Thread Killer said:

Ugh, I still have nightmares about that god awful Survivor Series “Deadly Games” tournament he booked, or even worse that WCW World Title tournament. SO. SHITTY.

The same. Before Rumble 99, which killed the WWF fan in me, that Deadly Games PPV is the first one I recall being super disappointed in an entire card. And although at first, when the final swerve, bro, happened, I kinda felt it was brillant, but then I thought about how I did not enjoy the PPV at all, so...

So, that's agreeing twice. Plus, I don't think you'd argue much if I said the Briscoes vs FTR is pretty much the most serious MOTYC thus far. That's agreeing a lot in 5 months. 

BTW, speaking of Russo booking tournaments, show n°2 of TNA in late 2013 when Russo officially got back on the payroll. Heel Dixie (who's hilariously bad) takes the title away from AJ Styles and has a great way to crown a new champ. I was like "she's gonna say a tournament". And she said "an 8 men tournament !". I died. Russo WAS BACK.

[sek69]

48 minutes ago, El-P said:

Plus, I don't think you'd argue much if I said the Briscoes vs FTR is pretty much the most serious MOTYC thus fa

I don't even think "pretty much" is needed, that match was one of those "if you didn't think this was awesome, this pro wrestling thing might not be for you" matches. That was the best tag team matches I've seen in the us since the Midnights and Fantastics. 

[Jmare007]

I think they missed an opportunity for an unique house show+TV tour for the Owen tournament. Make it round robin put your biggest names in it (and in the case of the women, invite whoever you can to make it feel more special) and book small-to-medium sized buildings for whatever weeks are needed. Tape the tourney matches that aren't on Dynamite/Rampage and put them on Youtube. Hype the shit out of the coming shows on TV. Make it a big fucking deal. I don't think it would be a money loser considering it would be the only tour of the year.

Another throwaway tournament to fill TV time feels like a such a waste.

[El-P]

The one BIG mistake as far as this PPV goes, is nothing for FTR. Like, really ? They are the most over they've even been, they come off that incredible match against the Briscoes followed by beating the Young Bucks on TV, and... nothing on the PPV ? That's quite a big booking flub, until they get a last minute match after this week, but the card seems full already and a three day "build" is not exactly what you'd want for your most over tag team in the company. Yep, that one I don't get at all, lack of focus really shows here. No team is the three-way is as over as FTR (maybe Keith Lee is ?). Jake Hager is on the PPV by sheer force of being attached to Jericho. Ditto 2.0 (who are fun and all, but....). Ruby Soho, who's pretty cold, is gonna be on the final of the Owen tournament. Fuck, can't they get FTR vs reDragons somewhere quickly ?

[NotJayTabb]

Really hope Tony K has his delegating boots on, or the next few months could be tricky. With Fulham preparing for their bi-annual season in the Premiership, he's likely going to be involved in a lot of transfer negotiations and scouting meetings for the next few months, which is a full time job. He's either going to need to hire a director of football at Fulham (this would be the smarter move, as he's not great at it himself) or delegate a lot of the AEW booking for risk of burnout. There's already a few worrying signs that he's not firing on all cylinders (the terrible state of the TNT title scene), and it might end up getting worse.

[Coffey]

AEW needs a Bam Bam Bigelow. A big man (that works big) that's a good base, that is heel, that can squash little guys whom you have to topple to move to the main event. Brody King might work but he's stuck in the House of Black, which might not even be a detriment since in ECW, Bigelow was in the Triple Threat.

Like, Brody King versus Darby Allin would slap.

[Matt D]

30 minutes ago, Coffey said:

AEW needs a Bam Bam Bigelow. A big man (that works big) that's a good base, that is heel, that can squash little guys whom you have to topple to move to the main event. Brody King might work but he's stuck in the House of Black, which might not even be a detriment since in ECW, Bigelow was in the Triple Threat.

Like, Brody King versus Darby Allin would slap.

Is Miro big enough?