Dark Side of the Ring

[JRH]

So apparently the DSOTR on Earthquake is also going to have a look at Shockmaster, despite not having anything to do with Tenta aside from Fred Ottman being his tag partner (but Tenta wasnt in WCW during the Shockmaster's run). There's a clip on X/Twitter of Haku watching the debut and laughing his head off.

[sek69]

So it made sense in context of them being best friends who went different paths, Tenta went back to Japan and Fred ended up falling on his ass on live TV.

Haku losing his mind laughing made the whole thing worth it tho.

[NintendoLogic]

Speaking of people losing their minds, let us never forget that the best thing about the Shockmaster segment is the fact that Sid was able to keep it together and tried to get things back on track while everyone else was losing it.

[El-P]

10 hours ago, NintendoLogic said:

Speaking of people losing their minds, let us never forget that the best thing about the Shockmaster segment is the fact that Sid was able to keep it together and tried to get things back on track while everyone else was losing it.

Knowing Sid, he probably thought it was planned and did not get why everybody else was laughing.

The most interesting thing about the episode is the sumo stuff (cool footage). Tenta being a super nice guy and all, and the ending about his death was trying way too hard to make the audience cry (really, I felt I was a voyeur in a private matter that had nothing to do with pro-wrestling, and it made me feel both sad and awkward), but there was nothing really compelling about the episode itself, which is why they spent like 5 minutes on Shockmaster falling on his arse I guess (that Haku laugh was gold). The idea that Golga was a way to humiliate Tenta is kinda bizarre, but who knows.

[Tenese Sarwieh]

Tenta's kindness truly shone as the highlight of the episode, providing a refreshing break from the usual controversies.

[El-P]

The Buff Bagwell episode ended up much better than expected. Both tragic, absurd, funny at times, with an interesting twist at the end (the Scotty Riggs stuff). At the end of the day, Marcus Bagwell sure came off like a good dude who kinda lost himself for a while, and who's really lucky to still be alive today. People just have crazy lives. Enjoyed this one a lot.

[Timbo Slice]

I suggest folks go watch the DDP Yoga mini-docs on Marcus as a corollary to this. Page being able to help out dudes like this has been amazing to watch. 

[The Thread Killer]

I want to scrub the ball shaving story off my brain with steel wool.

[C.S.]

Not everyone liked the Buff episode...

[sek69]

As someone who was a big Freebirds mark as a kid, the Terry Gordy episode hit pretty hard for me. I knew he wasn't the same after the plane incident but seeing how bad it got was a rough watch.

[Tenese Sarwieh]

This episode was truly remarkable. Witnessing Gordy's post-coma state was deeply saddening. Seeing him in such a stark contrast to his former self, not just as a remarkable wrestler but also as a person, was truly disconcerting. While I wished they could have included Hayes in this discussion, I understand that it might have been wishful thinking.

[El-P]

That Brutus episode could be summed up in one question "What does friendship means ?". It was quite interesting from that perspective, really, as the rest of it is already well known. Especially interesting the differences of perception of his friendship with Hulk and how it played into his career (basically, 100% responsible for it) and how they fell apart. The "no-comment" from Knobbs really resonated as a "I won't lose *my* meal-tick friendship with Hulk over that one" to me. Missy Hyatt came off like she usually does, and that's really good. My brain was kinda confused at how Brutus girlfriend is named Missy too and actually looks more like what you'd think Missy Hyatt would look today. Greg Valentine looking EXACTLY like you'd picture a 70+ Greg Valentine would is always funny too. He almost has the best line (pun intended) of the doc too. Bischoff had the meanest (yet most pragmatic) line with the "Hogan tax" bit. This was also a great illustration of how people who are getting privileges (because that's what Brutus did for a while) almost have to convince themselves that they work so hard for what they got as a way to overcompensate. The fact he thought he did a great job with all his gimmicks in WCW is amazing. When Brian Knobbs of all people says you're the shits, well... 

I gotta say though, it never struck me before the irony of Brutus finisher being a high knee to the face, and that's basically what he took. 

[Tenese Sarwieh]

7 hours ago, El-P said:

 He almost has the best line (pun intended) of the doc too. Bischoff had the meanest (yet most pragmatic) line with the "Hogan tax" bit. This was also a great illustration of how people who are getting privileges (because that's what Brutus did for a while) almost have to convince themselves that they work so hard for what they got as a way to overcompensate.

It's akin to the situation with nepo babies; there's no harm in acknowledging the substantial help you've received to reach your current position, as very few people achieve success entirely on their own.

[El-P]

15 hours ago, Tenese Sarwieh said:

It's akin to the situation with nepo babies; there's no harm in acknowledging the substantial help you've received to reach your current position, as very few people achieve success entirely on their own.

Yup. Try "no one" actually. Fun fact, all big men singles match participants in Mania this year that came through the WWE system are nepobabies : Rock, Roman, Jey & Jimmy Usos, Randy Orton, Cody Rhodes. And pretty much all of the others are products of the indies (Rollins, Owens, Zayn, Gunther, Styles, Knight, Drew), basically. Dunno what that says about the WWE developmental system. 

[NintendoLogic]

I miss the days when the big stars were all self-made men like Terry Funk, Greg Valentine, and Kerry Von Erich.

Pro wrestling has pretty much always been infested with nepo babies. Which is to be expected as the most reliable way to gain entrance to a closed society, which wrestling historically was, is family connections. By the way, Beefcake was a perfectly serviceable worker before the accident. Not great by any means, but decent enough that he could team with the aforementioned Valentine and actually bring something to the table.

[El-P]

Irony aside, it will probably only get worse now that you'll get entire families where both the father and the mother are pro-wrestlers, especially in the case of the really weathly ones in WWE. And it's really not just a pro-wrestling thing at all, really, it's all over the map. But anyway, the point I was making with that list is that the nepo-babies all came through the WWE system, while the non-nepo babies come from the indies. 

The one thing that I find fascinating is that it actually hasn't really worked that way in Japan. I have no idea why. Lucha libre is basically mafia level shit. Big time US pro-wrestling has way more than one royal family (although you could say that WWE really has become the Samoan mafia too lately). 

Still, I think a study on a very large timescale would be super interesting.

57 minutes ago, NintendoLogic said:

By the way, Beefcake was a perfectly serviceable worker before the accident. Not great by any means, but decent enough that he could team with the aforementioned Valentine and actually bring something to the table.

Even by the standards of the time and the promotion, he was a weak-ass worker. Valentine did all the work and he would do a stomp or two and a bodyslam. 

Gotta love the fact he really believes he "proved all his detractors wrong" when he got back in WCW as the Disciple. The level of denial is insane. 

[NintendoLogic]

1 hour ago, El-P said:

The one thing that I find fascinating is that it actually hasn't really worked that way in Japan. I have no idea why.

I think it's at least partially because wrestling in Japan has traditionally been presented as more of a sport and you hardly ever see family dynasties in non-worked sports. Also, Japanese athletes tend to be more secretive about their private lives, so their children don't really grow up exposed to the business. After Misawa died, it was reported that wrestlers who had known him for decades didn't even know he had children.

[El-P]

5 minutes ago, NintendoLogic said:

I think it's at least partially because wrestling in Japan has traditionally been presented as more of a sport and you hardly ever see family dynasties in non-worked sports. Also, Japanese athletes tend to be more secretive about their private lives, so their children don't really grow up in the limelight. After Misawa died, it was reported that wrestlers who had known him for decades didn't even know he had children.

Interesting. I had no idea about Misawa having kids either btw. I was thinking about Sumo wrestling, which inspired a lot of how pro-wrestling functions in Japan, where you actually have quite a bit of wrestler dynasties, but it doesn't seem it has really worked the same way in pro-wrestling, to the point Shota Umino being the son of a famous referee really stands out as an exception. Hashimoto's kid really never made much strides. Of course you had Hana Kimura. Out of the top of my head, I really can't think of anyone else in the current scene. 

[William Bologna]

Sakaguchi's kid never got anywhere either. I wonder if this indicates that the business is more meritocratic in Japan, but there are plenty of second generation washouts in the US as well.

[El-P]

18 minutes ago, William Bologna said:

 but there are plenty of second generation washouts in the US as well.

For sure. David Sammartino and Erik Watts represent. 

With the landscape changing from the model of the territory where the owner/booker would push his not-so-talented kid to today's big-ass corporations owning pro-wrestling promotions, it's not exactly the same dynamic either (not to mention the much, much bigger emphasis on being actually good). Still. Honestly, if Brian Pillman Jr. was not who he is (and despite the fact he actually wasn't privileged at all during his upbringing, for obvious reasons), there is ZERO chance he gets signed to an NXT deal and pushed after his AEW stint. ZERO. The funniest thing in this is that they change nepo-kids names (see also, Bron Breakker) almost as if it's not as obvious, despite the fact no one can ignore it in today's world. 

[JRH]

4 hours ago, NintendoLogic said:

I miss the days when the big stars were all self-made men like Terry Funk, Greg Valentine, and Kerry Von Erich.

Pro wrestling has pretty much always been infested with nepo babies. Which is to be expected as the most reliable way to gain entrance to a closed society, which wrestling historically was, is family connections. By the way, Beefcake was a perfectly serviceable worker before the accident. Not great by any means, but decent enough that he could team with the aforementioned Valentine and actually bring something to the table.

My fav Beefcake match is actually his match against Mr. Perfect at WM6. You could argue Curt was doing all the work, but it still was a highlight of the show (one wonders how the Summerslam match would have been if he wasnt injured).

[Robert S]

3 hours ago, El-P said:

Interesting. I had no idea about Misawa having kids either btw. I was thinking about Sumo wrestling, which inspired a lot of how pro-wrestling functions in Japan, where you actually have quite a bit of wrestler dynasties, but it doesn't seem it has really worked the same way in pro-wrestling, to the point Shota Umino being the son of a famous referee really stands out as an exception. Hashimoto's kid really never made much strides. Of course you had Hana Kimura. Out of the top of my head, I really can't think of anyone else in the current scene. 

Let's see, the first that come to mind are Shibata, Mochizuki Jr. and Fujinami's kid. Ayako Hamada is still active, though only in Mexico.

[KawadaSmile]

On 3/27/2024 at 7:00 AM, El-P said:

Greg Valentine looking EXACTLY like you'd picture a 70+ Greg Valentine would is always funny too.

That man has looked 70 for the past 40 years. 

[Graham Crackers]

You've all missed the greatest second generation wrestler in Japanese history, Mitsuo Momota.

[sek69]

The story of Brutus and Hulk falling out is interesting. Hearing everyone's side of the story makes me think Hulk just was getting tired of what  was a mostly one-sided friendship and having to deal with the new wife who didn't take shit was his "fuck it, I'm done" moment.

Whatever you think of him and his career, it was nice at least to see that Brutus seems to be in a good place and is happy with his life.

It does make Hulk kind of look like a dick that he seemingly has no interest in burying the hatchet with the guy. It's not like he has to worry about Brutus hitting him up for a job in the biz at this stage of the game.