Post-Mania TV 2019

[KawadaSmile]

24 minutes ago, FMKK said:

Can't wait to see what happens when Sasha is asked to do a clean job to Brandi.

Can't wait to discuss that shoot in 2031

[C.S.]

If any of that story is true, Cole comes across super poorly. Yes, McAfee should've had the common sense to dress properly for WrestleMania. But I find it incredibly sad and pathetic that Cole has taken on the traits of his abuser, Vince McMahon, by lashing out the same way. Something about him has always screamed "beta male" to me, and this proves it. The best part of the story is Vince stepping in as the alpha and completely undermining his underling. 

As for Sasha, if this stuff is actually accurate, she's coming across as the female Austin Aries. I'd argue that she way more talent, upside, and drawing potential than the indy geek Aries though.

[SirEdger]

6 hours ago, KawadaSmile said:

legit insane week.

It goes to show that there's a clear disconnect between what Hunter wants (Boss n Hug appeared in NXT, basically challenging the women's roster there) and what Vince wants. I don't even think Vince was aware of HHH's wishes to build this tag division around Sasha and Bayley, to be honest.

 

Miscommunication or Vince doing smack? You be the judge.

Uncle Dave couldn't help himself by inserting that line about the IIconics being jokes. He still isn't over Peyton Royce publicly calling him out like she did.

Personally, I don't have issues with people being unhappy about their situation. But I look at the way Dean Ambrose handled his situation and how Sasha is handling hers and it's pretty hard for me to ever be on her side afterwards. She doesn't scream "professional" to me.

[PeteF3]

2 hours ago, C.S. said:

If any of that story is true, Cole comes across super poorly. Yes, McAfee should've had the common sense to dress properly for WrestleMania. But I find it incredibly sad and pathetic that Cole has taken on the traits of his abuser, Vince McMahon, by lashing out the same way. Something about him has always screamed "beta male" to me, and this proves it. The best part of the story is Vince stepping in as the alpha and completely undermining his underling. 

What really got McAfee was that, whether it looks professional or not, he'd been in the shorts all day and then 45 minutes before he's supposed to go on the air is when he gets yelled at. A simple, "Hey, get out of those shorts" soon after he arrived would have been more palatable.

And of course, as Pat said as he was on the verge of quitting...this is a second job to him. He'll have an NFL broadcasting or podcasting or Barstool Sports or talk radio career waiting for him as soon as he leaves.

[C.S.]

1 hour ago, SirEdger said:

Uncle Dave couldn't help himself by inserting that line about the IIconics being jokes. He still isn't over Peyton Royce publicly calling him out like she did.

Personally, I don't have issues with people being unhappy about their situation. But I look at the way Dean Ambrose handled his situation and how Sasha is handling hers and it's pretty hard for me to ever be on her side afterwards. She doesn't scream "professional" to me.

Well, to be fair, Sasha is on social media and Dean isn't. (He has a Twitter account, probably forced on him by the company, that he never posts on.) So, we're seeing Sasha's meltdown but not seeing how Dean reacted.

But yeah, if I had to guess, Dean was probably a lot more professional in general.

It probably helps that Dean's wife is still with the company, and he's not about to sour that for her.

Part of me does feel bad for Sasha because she was red hot coming out of NXT, easily the best female wrestler in the company at the time, but was always positioned as second fiddle to Charlotte, Alexa, etc. She probably didn't help herself either though and strikes me as the type who is her own worst enemy.

46 minutes ago, PeteF3 said:

What really got McAfee was that, whether it looks professional or not, he'd been in the shorts all day and then 45 minutes before he's supposed to go on the air is when he gets yelled at. A simple, "Hey, get out of those shorts" soon after he arrived would have been more palatable.

And of course, as Pat said as he was on the verge of quitting...this is a second job to him. He'll have an NFL broadcasting or podcasting or Barstool Sports or talk radio career waiting for him as soon as he leaves.

Not to defend Cole, but it's possible everyone assumed McAfee was wearing more comfortable clothing until showtime -  that's probably not unheard of - and got yelled at only when it became obvious that that's what he was actually wearing to the company's biggest event of the year.

Still doesn't reflect well on Cole. I have to think that Pat McAfee isn't long for the company at this point, because he's in a position where he absolutely doesn't need to put up with any petty bullshit.

[sek69]

Sasha always seemed to be her own worst enemy. Being driven is never a bad thing but she always seemed bent on trying things just slightly above her ability level which led to her getting hurt frequently. Vince has a history of souring on folks he feels are injury prone and I wouldn't be surprised if that happened here. Also I still get the impression Vince is only doing as much as he is with the women because the fans and the roster made a fuss about it and it's not something his heart is really into. That causes a situation where the women in the ring are way more invested than the boss, and that can only end in frustration for the talent. 

[C.S.]

17 minutes ago, sek69 said:

Also I still get the impression Vince is only doing as much as he is with the women because the fans and the roster made a fuss about it and it's not something his heart is really into. That causes a situation where the women in the ring are way more invested than the boss, and that can only end in frustration for the talent. 

Well, yeah...

You don't really think WWE believes any of its bullshit about how progressive it's being with the WWE Women's Evolution, do you?

This is the same company that thought so little of women wrestlers that they discontinued the title (more than once), fired Alundra Blayze/Madusa while she was still champion, and let her walk out with the belt in her possession and throw it in another company's trash can.

She was also made to feel like a piece of shit by the company for 20 years, even though Flair did the same exact thing with the NWA Title. But I guess it's okay because he's a man. 

[C.S.]

BTW, it looks like Cole's history of abuse isn't limited to Pat McAfee.

Former WWE NXT Announcer Alex Reyes (Alex Del Barrio) Recalls Michael Cole's "Ridiculous And Irrationally Nonsensical Temper"

https://www.wrestlinginc.com/news/2019/04/former-wwe-nxt-announcer-on-getting-yelled-at-while-with-653041/

[Stiva]

Cole gets dumped on by Vince, Cole dumps on the guy beneath him. That about checks out as typical, shitty corporate environment fare

Also, this shit with changing finishes on the fly is absolutely the kind of thing that would have made the LOLTNA page. What the fuck are they doing half the time?!

[El-P]

3 hours ago, SirEdger said:

Uncle Dave couldn't help himself by inserting that line about the IIconics being jokes. He still isn't over Peyton Royce publicly calling him out like she did.

IIconics are a joke. Both are awful in the ring (Peyton being the worse of the two) and are a comedy act. Putting the belts of them so early without Bailey and Sasha getting some lenghty reign does make the brand new revolutionnary title look like an undercard comedy prop no one should care about indeed, two months after its creation. So really, let's no try to pretend Meltz is calling them bad because he's hot at Peyton Royce for this silly matter last year. 

[sek69]

It's almost as if Gail Kim was spot on when she called out the company for being a toxic cesspool and got dogpiled by WWE zealots on Twitter 

[DMJ]

Yeah, just to piggy-back, I'm not going to claim Sasha Banks is the most professional person. I don't know about that. I have listened to many podcasts with her and will say that she does take wrestling seriously and might be a bit of a "mark" for herself. 

To me, though, its not too dissimilar to what Bret Hart has been accused of over the years. She strongly believes that she is talented enough to be on top, that nobody is going to outwork her, and that the company undermines her potential and progress. In Bret's own book, its clear he had the same level of confidence and was frustrated watching Hogan and Nash and Shawn get the spotlight over him at various times.

An even more apt comparison might be Neville. He was booked as The King of the Cruiserweights. He had dynamite matches. He wasn't exactly given many stories to build those around, but he at least cred with his winning streak. Then, he's booked to drop the title to a comedy character (Enzo) and, moving forward, it looks like he's just going to be lost in the shuffle (again) despite his work being strong, getting over in NXT (and Banks was way, way more over in NXT than Neville was), etc.

When Neville left, I don't remember so many people calling him a crybaby and a quitter. But with Sasha? Oh, she's unprofessional and a mark. If you're going to criticize Sasha, that has to carry over to others in similar positions.

[FMKK]

2 hours ago, El-P said:

IIconics are a joke. Both are awful in the ring (Peyton being the worse of the two) and are a comedy act. Putting the belts of them so early without Bailey and Sasha getting some lenghty reign does make the brand new revolutionnary title look like an undercard comedy prop no one should care about indeed, two months after its creation. So really, let's no try to pretend Meltz is calling them bad because he's hot at Peyton Royce for this silly matter last year. 

I think they're entertaining enough as characters and could probably pull off a short Honky Tonk type reign before getting squashed but yeah, they're both dogshit in the ring in a way you really wouldn't expect in WWE in 2019.

Maybe it's just a transitional reign for whatever team Paige is bringing up next week and they can feud the new team with Sasha and Bayley.

 

EDIT: I think it's hard to compare the Neville and Sasha situations in terms of the response because she's just put a lot more of her personality out there than he ever did and I can see why some might find her a bit annoying and thus call her a mark and whatever. She and Bayley have been handled pretty ineptly but she's still had a much higher push than Neville ever got. Really she's a victim of them never booking substantial women's programmes outside of the title feuds. But I would argue that, while Becky and Charlotte are clearly the top two women in the company in terms of push, Sasha and Bayley are in the tier just bellow along with Alexa, Asuka and probably Nia. And I think that's a reasonably fair assessment given her performances relative to the two higher than her on the totem.

[El-P]

51 minutes ago, FMKK said:

I think they're entertaining enough as characters and could probably pull off a short Honky Tonk type reign before getting squashed but yeah, they're both dogshit in the ring in a way you really wouldn't expect in WWE in 2019.

I dunno, everytime I hear the HTM argument about a shit worker getting a title, it's like... It was 30 years ago. In a very different context, for a very, very different audience. Yeah, the IIconics can be kinda funny, especially Billie Kay, but they are just goofs and portrayed as such. Take the Beautiful People in TNA in the late 00's. Angelina Love was a solid enough worker who could kick a girl in the face in make it look good. Velvet Skye was never very good at all in-ring, but she had the heel charisma, she was unbearable, rubbing her crotch on the ropes, striking stripper poses and generally being a complete annoyance, you'd beg for Amazing Kong or ODB to slap the fuck out of the bitch and powerbomb her into oblivion. The IIconics, they come off as minor goofballs.

As far as Sasha taking herself too seriously, it's funny how people are never happy with anything. Lesnar not giving a fuck is not good. Sasha giving too much fuck is not good. I dunno, I'm gonna use the good-old "you've never been inside the ring" argument on this one. It's her life passion, she's been at times very good at it, she also has the charisma of a top name. Yeah, maybe she's right to give a fuck. Most of the best guys in pro-wrestling history probably gave a fuck. It's nothing new how WWE can suck the life out of people. 

[El-P]

I guess the current way of looking at things is :

_fans who criticize WWE are idiots who should accept whatever they are fed

_employ  independant contractors who aren't happy with the WWE are crybabies and marks and should accept whatever they are told

Yeah, we're really deep into the "Brand" era, where people just brainlessly defend a brand they like. The next phase of übercapitalism where brand > brain.

[Blehschmidt]

25 minutes ago, El-P said:

I guess the current way of looking at things is :

_fans who criticize WWE are idiots who should accept whatever they are fed

_employ  independant contractors who aren't happy with the WWE are crybabies and marks and should accept whatever they are told

Yeah, we're really deep into the "Brand" era, where people just brainlessly defend a brand they like. The next phase of übercapitalism where brand > brain.

 It certainly seems like they have finally achieved the goal they been chasing ever since Brock hurt their feelings 15 years ago.

After years of start and stop pushes and cutting off anyone who dare get themselves over, the talent is inconsequential and interchangable, the WWE brand is the only thing that really matters now, and as you've stated above, speaking out against "the brand" only serves to get you criticized instead of whatever fault or inconsistency you might be pointing out.

It's as amazing as it is disheartening.

 

[Kadaveri]

6 hours ago, sek69 said:

she always seemed bent on trying things just slightly above her ability level which led to her getting hurt frequently. Vince has a history of souring on folks he feels are injury prone and I wouldn't be surprised if that happened here.

This is all untrue. Sasha has wrestled more matches and has missed less time due to injury than any woman on the roster the whole time she's been there. People seem to mistake her being taken off TV for ages as her being injured not realising she's wrestling on house shows the whole time.

[C.S.]

8 hours ago, El-P said:

IIconics are a joke. Both are awful in the ring (Peyton being the worse of the two) and are a comedy act. Putting the belts of them so early without Bailey and Sasha getting some lenghty reign does make the brand new revolutionnary title look like an undercard comedy prop no one should care about indeed, two months after its creation. So really, let's no try to pretend Meltz is calling them bad because he's hot at Peyton Royce for this silly matter last year. 

Except, The Boss and Hug Connection were colossal bores together. It's like they sapped the charisma out of each other.

I love Bayley.

I love Sasha Banks.

But I didn't love them as a team.

The IIconics are a much better act.

Obviously, Sasha and Bayley mop the floor with them in the ring, but that's their only advantage as a team and only part of what WWE looks for. It's why Alexa Bliss has been so successful, and rightfully so, despite not being as technically proficient as the Four Horsewomen (WWE version, but I suppose the MMA version also applies here).

Alexa and The IIconics are so much more polished as overall acts than Bayley and Sasha, even now. 

With all of that said, all of this could have been avoided if the belts were introduced at WM like they should've been and Sasha and Bayley had their coronation there, with The IIconics maybe winning at SummerSlam or Survivor Series (or wherever). I have no idea why the titles were introduced on a random PPV instead. 

[KawadaSmile]

21 minutes ago, C.S. said:

It's why Alexa Bliss has been so successful, and rightfully so, despite not being as technically proficient as the Four Horsewomen (WWE version, but I suppose the MMA version also applies here).

Dawg, 3/4 of the MMA Horsewomen are rookies, and Shafir and Duke are far from being savants like Ronda, to put it mildly.

[C.S.]

37 minutes ago, KawadaSmile said:

Dawg, 3/4 of the MMA Horsewomen are rookies, and Shafir and Duke are far from being savants like Ronda, to put it mildly.

Probably true, but Shayna is damn good, and Ronda is obviously incredible.

I guess I just assumed Shafir and Duke picked up whatever magic dust the other two are sprinkling.

There's still time. They are really early in their careers, and I'm willing to wager they'd look like beasts if they were protected in a 4-on-4 Horsewomen vs. Horsewomen Survivor Series match or something. 

[Strummer]

Nia Jax tore *both* of her ACLs and will miss 9 months to a year

[El-P]

1 hour ago, C.S. said:

Obviously, Sasha and Bayley mop the floor with them in the ring, but that's their only advantage as a team and only part of what WWE looks for. It's why Alexa Bliss has been so successful, and rightfully so, despite not being as technically proficient as the Four Horsewomen (WWE version, but I suppose the MMA version also applies here).

Well, I for one think Alexa Bliss is a super solid worker at worst, and actually really good. That's also the huge difference between her and the IIconics. Their act is more polished than Sasha & Bailey together, sure. But their act is undercard comedy goofs. And really, Sasha & Bailey don't really need an "act", they are two strong individual acts. Well, should be still, but their booking has been horrendous last year. The tag team titles booking has been nothing short of a disaster anyway, with only a bunch of multi-women matches involving a bunch of terrible workers on PPV instead of actual hot tag-team matches.

[sek69]

To be fair, I kind of dig the IIconics as the chickenshit heel tag team that kinda doesn't deserve the title but somehow keeps falling into victories to keep it. 

[El-P]

4 minutes ago, Strummer said:

Nia Jax tore *both* of her ACLs and will miss a year

Sucks for her.

[sek69]

Been a bad week for big folks' knees in WWE.