BigBadMick Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 Yeah, when something even mildly controversial happens I avoid Keller for a while. Getting to the point were I only listen for historical analysis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackwebb Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 I gave up on Keller after the Punk podcast. He went on for over a half hour on Punk not wanting fans to call him by his real name. Also wasn't a fan of how often he felt the need to try and dumb down a point he made. Typically using a basketball analogy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man in Blak Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 Moving over from the WWE thread: I think it's less about the tweet itself -- which Keller himself said later was gauche (and it is), but hardly news for corporations -- and more about the time and place of it. Stephanie is out, front and center, on Twitter all the time with their charity work, so a tweeting a comment like that out on the same account/presence makes her look disingenuous. And on the same day that they're doing an honorary induction for Connor? Yes, I think Wade is occasionally a little too eager to grind an axe over WWE's "corporate citizenship," but I think there's a legitimate criticism here. Philanthropy is marketing, and everbody knows that.It doesn't really work as marketing, though, when a company explicitly calls it out as a successful strategy for (ugh) #brand management. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoo Enthusiast Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 How dare Daniel Bryan allow himself to be prostituted in the name of the #brand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pol Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 I didn't get the impression Keller was offended, more that he was astounded that Steph would publicly acknowledge that their philanthropy is a marketing deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoo Enthusiast Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 Just like his ripping on Steph is a marketing deal. Preach to choir. They're the ones who sing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man in Blak Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 How dare Daniel Bryan allow himself to be prostituted in the name of the #brand. Sure, that's totally what's being said here. Keller was criticizing Stephanie, not the WWE as a whole. Of course, he could have also (rightfully) pointed out that Stephanie's comments aren't doing Bryan -- or any other employees that are actually doing the hard work when WWE participates in charities -- any favors. I didn't get the impression Keller was offended, more that he was astounded that Steph would publicly acknowledge that their philanthropy is a marketing deal. Eh, I agree to a point. Wade's not immune to coming across as sanctimonious so, even if he wasn't offended, I could understand how someone could take that away from his response here. I mean, my gosh, his jaw dropped when he read that tweet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thread Killer Posted March 29, 2015 Report Share Posted March 29, 2015 Moving over from the WWE thread: I think it's less about the tweet itself -- which Keller himself said later was gauche (and it is), but hardly news for corporations -- and more about the time and place of it. Stephanie is out, front and center, on Twitter all the time with their charity work, so a tweeting a comment like that out on the same account/presence makes her look disingenuous. And on the same day that they're doing an honorary induction for Connor? Yes, I think Wade is occasionally a little too eager to grind an axe over WWE's "corporate citizenship," but I think there's a legitimate criticism here. Philanthropy is marketing, and everbody knows that.It doesn't really work as marketing, though, when a company explicitly calls it out as a successful strategy for (ugh) #brand management. I agree it's one of those things you don't really talk about, at least in public. There were a million times when I was trying to pitch a company on a major gift that I'd point out all the upsides to them in terms of their public image. (I don't believe I ever used the term brand management then, those weren't popular buzzwords when I worked in that area.) But you are correct, it probably isn't something a company should talk about, it should remain unspoken. I personally have always been of the opinion that if a corporation is going to make a financial contribution or help with publicity for a charitable cause, they can promote themselves however they like and say whatever they want - within the bounds of good taste. But you are right, tact dictates you probably don't want to actually mention the reason you're doing something is for brand management, not altruism. Then again, although Stephanie McMahon is highly educated and obviously book smart, she has done quite a few things that lead me to think she lacks basic common sense. Her comments after 9/11 spring to mind as an example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strand Peanut Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 Mentioning charity as good brand management, is bad brand management. Wade went/goes overrboard. But it's a good argument, wrestling or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artDDP Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 I gave up on Keller after the Punk podcast. He went on for over a half hour on Punk not wanting fans to call him by his real name. Also wasn't a fan of how often he felt the need to try and dumb down a point he made. Typically using a basketball analogy. I think I'm there after eight months of being a Torch subscriber. I realized Wade isn't breaking news and pretty much he and his buddies just rant and ramble on about whatever is going on in WWE. The analysis isn't even insightful; it's often just Wade and Caldwell fantasy booking for 90 minutes a day. And Wade's constant gushing about how great Seth Rollins is is as bad or worse than Bryan and Dave slobbering all over Brock. Also, Wade's constant plugging of everything is beyond grating. If you're already a VIP member do you really need to hear 10 minutes worth of plugs for the newsletter and other audio in every podcast? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted April 9, 2015 Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 Then again, although Stephanie McMahon is highly educated and obviously book smart, she has done quite a few things that lead me to think she lacks basic common sense. Her comments after 9/11 spring to mind as an example. I'm not sold that she's highly educated, the degree to BU notwithstanding. We all know people who got through college the same way they got through high school and jr high school and elementary, with "education" being very little of it. Do the work that needs to be done, grind stuff out, in one ear and out the next once the class is done and you're onto the next semester of classes. Along with drinking, doing dope and getting laid. After all, George W. Bush graduated from both Yale and Harvard Business. He doesn't come across at all as educated, and instead comes across as dumb as a rock. One gets that sense as well from people who've dealt with him far closer than any of us, and not exactly in read-between-the-lines stuff they've written. It's hard to tell if she's book smart either. Not going to say she's an idiot. But most of her life has been lived in the insular world of Pro Wrestling, within that more narrow world of McMahonLand with a delusional father and a mother who didn't come off as playing with a full deck in her Senate campaigns. Lacking common sense might be part of it, but also with a bent reality that narrows what she needs to be smart/educated about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackwebb Posted April 9, 2015 Report Share Posted April 9, 2015 Also, Wade's constant plugging of everything is beyond grating. If you're already a VIP member do you really need to hear 10 minutes worth of plugs for the newsletter and other audio in every podcast? Most of the shows have the option of listening to the first half - 3/4 for free anyway here. The Bruce Mitchell shows were alright but they come at the end of the week. When the topics have already been done to death most of the time. Usually had a good point of view though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artDDP Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 Wade is literally reporting things a week after Dave does and sourcing the Observer when doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 What does the Torch offer that the Observer doesn't? Not trolling, just actually curious. I learned about the Torch outside of an MSG house show in February 1993 and immediately subscribed. That went on for a year or 2 until I found out about the WON and haven't looked back since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoo Enthusiast Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 More audio, mainly. I usually just sub when he runs a coupon code and grab all the Bruce Mitchell shows that I missed. Wade is also (IMO) a very good interviewer, especially compared to a guy like Alvarez that knows less about wrestling history than most people here, so I also grab any of the interviews he did while I was gone that look interesting. I re-subbed when they ran a Todd Martin coupon code and have liked the stuff that he and Wade have done together, as well. I also enjoy not having to wade (no pun intended) through a bunch of MMA hot takes that I have no interest in. If I want MMA talk, I listen to people like Jordan Breen and Jack Encaracao at Sherdog, etc. because I think they do a far better job and it's free. Of course, there are many valid issues about the Torch that people (myself included) have voiced in this thread, as well. I don't read anything aside from the occasional Bruce Mitchell column, so I have no idea how good the newsletter is these days. I think Wade just transcribes his hotlines/recaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheapshot Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 The website design is horrific and confusing with many dead links. For that reason I doubt I'll be back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoo Enthusiast Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 Yeah, I'm rarely ever on the actual site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artDDP Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 What does the Torch offer that the Observer doesn't? PDF versions of the newsletter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 That's actually a plus. If the WON had that I might switch to an online subscription. Somehow this is the one relic of a dial-up / USPS world I've maintained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted September 4, 2015 Report Share Posted September 4, 2015 On Austin, Keller sure loved the finish to Undertaker vs Brock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
...TG Posted October 22, 2015 Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 I listened to Wade's surprisingly long interview on Les Moore's Talking Sheet podcast. I hate to pit Wade v. Dave, but it's pretty hard not to - look at the botched f4wonline redesign and then listen to Wade talk about teaching himself HTML and doing a lot of his redesign himself. Lots of good stories here, including how he first heard of Bruce Mitchell (through the WON's letters page!). Certainly worth checking out, as is most of Talking Sheet, for that matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 I picked up a Torch sub and I got to say I'm pretty happy. The audio is pretty good and varied, but the web design and the fact I can have VIP stuff in my podcast player is a huge plus. Has the WON fixed that audio stuff or do you still have to download the mp3? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artDDP Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 I picked up a Torch sub and I got to say I'm pretty happy. The audio is pretty good and varied, but the web design and the fact I can have VIP stuff in my podcast player is a huge plus. Has the WON fixed that audio stuff or do you still have to download the mp3? I get Dave's stuff (and Wade's, too) via Podcast Addict every day without any problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBadMick Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 I've been listening to Todd Martin with Wade lately. He's 50 times better with Wade than he was with Bryan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy James Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 It's nice that the whole Todd Martin/Filthy Tom swap worked out well for everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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