Chris, Nancy, & Daniel Benoit found dead

[Jingus]

My first thought was also carbon monoxide or some kind of slow-acting food poisoning, considering the vague news blurb we'd heard about Benoit saying his wife and kid were sick. Murder-suicide didn't even enter my mind until it was actually announced. Hell, I'd heard more about Nancy's fiery temper and violent tendencies and past indiscretions than I'd heard about Chris's.

[NintendoLogic]

I also initially thought carbon monoxide or food poisoning. I didn't suspect foul play until I heard news to that effect. For me, the creepiest part of the tribute show was when HHH related the "funny story" of how when some guy (I think it was Daivari) committed some minor breach of protocol, Chris made him do 1000 squats and 500 more the next day. Do these guys really not realize how stuff like this comes across to normal human beings?

[Loss]

I'm with SLL. I didn't really have a thought at all. I was too shocked to think about how it must have gone down. I just thought that it did no good to have everyone speculating before all the facts were in.

[Bix]

It probably didn't help that I found out about it in a chat with people who were even more cynical than me.

[Johnny Sorrow]

I thought carbon monoxide too when I first found out the family was dead, but something about the tribute show just struck me as odd. I don't know if it was Regal looking like he was hit with a bat in his tribute video, or Chavo acting like the nervous perp in every prime time cop drama ever in his.

 

Some of the theories being suggested were so ridiculous (Nancy killed Daniel, and Chris was so distraught at this he killer her in a rage!) that the lengths some were going in order to keep some semblance of Benoit the Hero would have been comical if they weren't so sad.

The Kevin Sullivan one was really the worst of those theories.

 

 

 

The website "Justice For Benoit" was so fucked up it was hilarious in a sick way.

 

And as soon as I read that the police were saying he did it, I had no problems believing it. It's just that that sort of thing is never the first thing I think of.

[jdw]

That's still playing guessing-games. What does "who was going to break into Chris Benoit's house" mean? A stranger breaking into a house and killing a whole family is actually more common than a guy going crazy and killing his own family. There are many more examples of the former than the latter.

Statistically, I think murder-suicide stats are far higher than home invasion murder. Home invasion murder gets more media run.

 

Honestly, show of hands: Who DIDN'T think it was most likely a murder-suicide upon hearing the whole family died, and if so, why?

Murder-suicide, before it got reported. Remember having that feeling with both Lee and Hoback.

 

John

[Mad Dog]

Murder-suicide is not tracked by the FBI or by other sources like that. There are some studies with estimates but those can be dubious due to bias inherent in the researchers.

 

I did look up a few years to see murders caused by robbery/burglary. In 2009 for instance 849 people were murdered in robberies and 105 people were murdered in burglaries.

[Jingus]

And that doesn't begin to count the number of invasion-murders you'd get from drug or gang vendettas, domestic violence, serial killings, and various other random motivations for someone to break into a house and kill everyone inside.

[smkelly]

Okay, but how many of those 954 people are 1) someone as physically powerful as Benoit and 2) is rich and had a lot of rottweilers. Not to be overtly racist here, but Benoit only lived 22 miles away from Atlanta.

 

And I'd be interested in what Benoit's medical records would look like. Surely working for something that the athletic commission watches, a person would need medical clearance to perform. Wrestlers get hurt all the time. They go to the doctors, and need medical clearance to perform afterwards. And I doubt the WWE would allow a wrestler not to prove that they're cleared - they probably have records of that. Paperwork piles up over the years, like from 2000 to 2007 when Benoit broke his neck, was concussed several times *during* a match, hurt his elbow, his shoulder, his knee, etc. It'd be interesting to see exactly how much the WWE actually and undoubtedly knew about Benoit. A man like that would have needed counseling or the every-now-and-then cautionary talk to evaluate his psychological mind frame.

 

Unless Benoit was very successful at hiding his emotions and then over the span of a few days plot and plan the deaths of his family, which had been for all previous records, albeit a few incidents of violence with his wife, to be a very loving father and bread winner. If he managed to pull that off without the WWE, at some level, knowing, then they need to start paying for medical coverage for these guys, because I don't really believe they give a Goddamned about their employees. They have shown that for years. I just don't see a metamorphosis of that magnitude happening because of something recently done to him. I bet, if anything, if the FBI indicted the WWE for "any and all files" that they have, the skeletons would tumble out like a hoarder's living room falling down. I mean, it really boils down to one or two things - 1) the WWE knew about Benoit's mental condition *prior* to the incident or 2) Benoit was an undiagnosed sociopath and all of his friends and coworkers, bosses, agents, and family members never put several symptoms together. And if that were the case, hence the WWE needing medical coverage imposed upon them for their 'employees'.

[Bix]

IIRC the Regal AJPW tapes story had been floating around before the murder-suicide so people in the business knew that something wasn't right with him. The Benoit segment in the London/Kendrick shoot is also well worth watching, as they discuss knowing he was "crazy.". The most infamous part is Benoit demanding that London fuck a waitress while he, Jamie Noble, and Kendrick watch from a closet and masturbate.

 

There is a whole lot more I want to go into (Loss probably knows what it is) but I have to collapse in bed now.

[smkelly]

I've never heard about the All Japan thing - elaborate, please.

[MikeCampbell]

From what I'm recalling hearing about it. Benoit invited Regal to come over to the house to watch some All Japan. But when Regal arrived, Benoit wouldn't let him in. There may be more to it than that, but that's all I'm remembering.

[Johnny Sorrow]

Not to be overtly racist here, but Benoit only lived 22 miles away from Atlanta.

Thems roving gangs of murdering Negroes are the bane of the South, I hears.

[sek69]

From what I'm recalling hearing about it. Benoit invited Regal to come over to the house to watch some All Japan. But when Regal arrived, Benoit wouldn't let him in. There may be more to it than that, but that's all I'm remembering.

 

Basically that, but I think it was used as an example of a bigger issue where Benoit would randomly invite people to his house then when they showed up he'd refuse to let him in to the point of getting hostile.

 

 

IMO the biggest part of the Benoit saga that still doesn't get discussed much is how the warning signs were there in neon lights for all to see but the only ones seeing them were folks who's first instinct was to deny what they saw/protect the business/default to the "boys will be boys" excuse. Like, practically anyone else in the world would have been "fuck, this guy is seriously messed up and needs help" but since he was in the wrestling business and surrounded by wrestlers, instead the reaction was "LOL, that wacky Chris sure is an odd one".

[Johnny Sorrow]

From what I'm recalling hearing about it. Benoit invited Regal to come over to the house to watch some All Japan. But when Regal arrived, Benoit wouldn't let him in. There may be more to it than that, but that's all I'm remembering.

 

Basically that, but I think it was used as an example of a bigger issue where Benoit would randomly invite people to his house then when they showed up he'd refuse to let him in to the point of getting hostile.

 

 

IMO the biggest part of the Benoit saga that still doesn't get discussed much is how the warning signs were there in neon lights for all to see but the only ones seeing them were folks who's first instinct was to deny what they saw/protect the business/default to the "boys will be boys" excuse. Like, practically anyone else in the world would have been "fuck, this guy is seriously messed up and needs help" but since he was in the wrestling business and surrounded by wrestlers, instead the reaction was "LOL, that wacky Chris sure is an odd one".

 

I agree, but who really ever thinks that the crazy co-worker one has would actually murder their family until it actually happens?

[jdw]

Murder-suicide is not tracked by the FBI or by other sources like that. There are some studies with estimates but those can be dubious due to bias inherent in the researchers.

 

I did look up a few years to see murders caused by robbery/burglary. In 2009 for instance 849 people were murdered in robberies and 105 people were murdered in burglaries.

Robberies in homes? Or out on the street, or 7-11's?

 

And that doesn't begin to count the number of invasion-murders you'd get from drug or gang vendettas, domestic violence, serial killings, and various other random motivations for someone to break into a house and kill everyone inside.

Serial killers don't typically take out a household of Father + Mother + Son. In serial killer stats for a year, it's likely a extremely small % (probably not even cracking 1%).

 

Drug and gang vendettas can, but far less than one's imagination would think. Taking out a household, especially a kid, attracts a shitload of cop attention. Take out the one specific individual who is a problem attracts less attention, and is easier for the cops to write off as gang violence. It doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. But as a % of drug violence, it's small.

 

Domestic violence?

 

Exactly. The overwhelming % of murders that happen in homes are family/friend related.

 

There is the old classic cliche: "Woman murdered? Where was the husband/boyfriend?" Except it's not a cliche because it's the most common thing.

 

In this case, it didn't take long for muder-suicide to pop into the head. Wife dead... husband dead... it pops up quick. :/ I think a lot of us didn't want to think in that direction becasue we had some affinity to Chris as a worker/performer/etc. I would have preferred not to go there, and perhaps it didn't pop up as instantly as it would have if say news broke of something similar happening to say Bret Farve who I don't like at all. But it's still there.

 

You might chalk it up like Bix mentioned: I'm a cynical by nature. Or as likely, I've read too much true crime over the years. There really aren't too many Manson Family crimes out there. It's one of the reasons that one and Capote's famed books stand out: they're relatively rare.

 

For all we want to say about a former SNL guy getting shot by his wife and then her killing herself as being a bit rare, it really isn't other than a woman doing it. My folks live in a relativly small gated community. Two murder suicides in the past year.

 

John

[Mad Dog]

I think burglary would be home invasion and robbery would be outside the home. It wasn't broken down beyond that.

[El-P]

Agree with John about the domestic violence issue. It is where most of the murder, rape and abuse occur. Brings us back to the South park episode where the parents send their kids away from them so they are safe...

As far as knowing in advance something was up, I think it's a very though thing to do, because in 99% of the cases of a guy going on a murder rampage, the most common stuff you hear from the neighbours is "I would never have guessed, he was a very calm and polite man". You never really know people. The most facsinating case to me is Jean-Claude Roman, who passed himself as a doctor and a searcher at the WHO for years despite being unemployed and spending days in his car. In the end, trapped in his own spiral and without any more ways to get money, he killed his family so they would not know the truth. You can check it out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Claude_Romand

 

Also agreed with sek as far as any signs of crazyness would be dismissed anyway because of the inherent nature of the wresting business. We're talking about a business in which Jimmy Snuka is still talked about as a great guy, and vile and cruel guys like Mr. Fuji or Dynamite Kids are merely "great ribbers".

 

I honestly didn't think much about anything except "car accident" when I learned the whole family was killed.

The Kevin Sullivan theories were so out there and retarded that it didn't bother me, but I was frankly appaled and shocked at how many people would try to convince themselves that Nancy had killed Daniel first, in a way of making Benoit murdering her "okay" because "that bitch had killed the kid first". It was all over the place, and I really thought it was repulsive.

 

I'm glad I wasn't watching WWE programs anymore at this point, I wouldn't have wanted to get through those creepy "tributes".

[tigerpride]

Okay, but how many of those 954 people are 1) someone as physically powerful as Benoit and 2) is rich and had a lot of rottweilers. Not to be overtly racist here, but Benoit only lived 22 miles away from Atlanta.

Benoit lived pretty far off the beaten path. No gang in Atlanta is going to go all the way out to his street

[Jingus]

The thing about "break into the house and kill everyone inside" scenarios is while they're uncommon, they do still happen. I know that very well, because it happened to my family a dozen years back. My dad married a woman who had a crazy ex-husband, and he tried to do exactly that. Fortunately it turns out that my dad's practically bulletproof, and long story short he's fine now and the attacker is in federal maximum security prison for the rest of his life. But it changed this kind of crazy incident from "something which only happens on TV" to "something which has proven to be absolutely real, once I held my father's bloodstained hand as he lay in a bullet-ridden coma". And it wasn't close to being a murder-suicide scenario, since the egotistical attacker definitely wasn't gonna kill himself; and his plan was to actually fake a murder-suicide between my dad and his wife. So that kind of scarring life experience definitely puts me in the camp of those who hear "who's gonna break into Chris Benoit's house and kill him?" and angrily snap that such a claim is fucking bullshit and such things do happen.

[smkelly]

But your dad isn't Chris Benoit.

[Al]

I had an incident within my own family where a couple was murdered. Their 13 year old daughter had gone out with a 42 year old man. They told him off, he came back and killed both of them (the husband and wife). Plausible. But as far as Benoit my first news was just "found dead" and my first instinct was carbon monoxide poisoning. I was at a ballgame so by the time I got the news the details were out.

[Jingus]

But your dad isn't Chris Benoit.

Which, once again, is completely meaningless since we live in a world where guns exist. All of the "Benoit is too tough to be killed" theories depend on some kind of ridiculous scenario where we should've expected just one shrimpy attacker who was not very competent and completely unarmed. Like I said before, it's typical wrestler chest-thumping where they think they're all a bunch of invincible warriors who couldn't possibly be threatened by civilians.

[Mad Dog]

But your dad isn't Chris Benoit.

So?

 

I'm not Chris Benoit and I own lots of guns. I'd say that more than makes up for my lack of Chris Benoit qualities.

[NintendoLogic]

I don't really know that an obsessive drive to become the best fake fighter establishes you as a legit shooter. There are plenty of tales of Benoit hazing rookies and calling referees gay bitches, but I can't think of any stories of him handling himself in a real fight.