KawadaSmile Posted October 19, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2019 3 minutes ago, FMKK said: Mox right now is displaying a passion and energy that we never see from Reigns. The fact that he's been downgraded to an upper midcarder since his return from leukaemia is a really huge, yet underdiscussed, missed opportunity for them. Pretty much. We know that Roman is probably a lifer and is very good at being an ambassador. Any other wrestler would be pushed to the stars with his skills AND his life story. Yet they just seem to not care that much. The fact that he's tagging with Bryan is a bit symbolic, in that way - two dudes who are excellent, two of the absolute best in the world, who really could've been the biggest STARS in wrestling. But they just didn't care enough. It's weird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted October 19, 2019 Report Share Posted October 19, 2019 The fact they cared enough about his comeback from leukemia to make a despicable angle about it (which played a part in Mox wanting to leave eventually) but not enough to try and make him the ultimate babyface they always wanted him to be before that point says everything about how dumb these people are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted October 19, 2019 Report Share Posted October 19, 2019 After tinkering with the format and presentation the first few weeks last night felt like a typical wwe show. Bunch of corny backstage segments and singles matches being turned into tags to end the show. I mean we all knew this would happen but even I'm surprised this quickly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted October 19, 2019 Report Share Posted October 19, 2019 and yes last night sort of confirmed that Roman is an upper midcarder now. I mean yeah they could just have him beat Brock again during Mania season or something but I honestly don't know if he can be the sure fire ace anymore. It's going to take a lot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoS Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 If I recall correctly, the relatively brief run Ambrose had with one of the world titles in WWE was quite good and pretty well-received. It's one reason I am intrigued to see if AEW run with babyface Mox as world champ and the guy down the line sometime, and how it would feel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 He had some bad luck too, like having all sorts of ideas for the Brock match only to have him not want to play ball and basically squash him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, sek69 said: He had some bad luck too, like having all sorts of ideas for the Brock match only to have him not want to play ball and basically squash him. Brock does more harm than good and has since his comeback. The people on this board who defended the atrocious Kofi squash need to have their heads examined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 Pretty sure if we look back, the Brock match was most likely the point Dean Ambrose stopped giving a fuck in WWE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KawadaSmile Posted October 20, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 2 hours ago, sek69 said: Pretty sure if we look back, the Brock match was most likely the point Dean Ambrose stopped giving a fuck in WWE. Not sure if that's the case. I mean, sure it was possibly the biggest factor, but his WWE title run started AFTER his match against Brock, and we can't say he wasn't having a good time back then, or even putting in effort. The Austin podcast was after that too, right? And so was that Cena promo on Talking Smack where he obliterated Ambrose. I remember that his match against Baron Corbin at Wrestlemania 33 was what made me realize he was completely gone.One of the worst performances I've ever seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 1 hour ago, KawadaSmile said: The Austin podcast was after that too, right? Definitely, because that's where Brock's laziness and selfishness was exposed in a major way. 1 hour ago, KawadaSmile said: And so was that Cena promo on Talking Smack where he obliterated Ambrose. I don't remember this at all. What happened here? 1 hour ago, KawadaSmile said: I remember that his match against Baron Corbin at Wrestlemania 33 was what made me realize he was completely gone.One of the worst performances I've ever seen. It was a steaming pile of shit, but what did you really expect? Ambrose was relegated to the WrestleMania pre-show only a few months after being WWE Champion. Anyone in his position would've been pissed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 Ambrose's 2016 title run actually out drew or drew as well as Roman's run before the wellness suspension Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoS Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 I was going to say that I definitely remember it being much better than Rollins's reigns but then that is an absurdly low bar to clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 I would take Jinder's reign over Rollins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 What killed Ambrose was the exploding TV/hologram. I actually thought he might break out for a minute there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KawadaSmile Posted October 20, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 9 hours ago, C.S. said: I don't remember this at all. What happened here? It was a steaming pile of shit, but what did you really expect? Ambrose was relegated to the WrestleMania pre-show only a few months after being WWE Champion. Anyone in his position would've been pissed. Basically Cena said Ambrose was irrelevant and had no drive. IIRC at the time, Ambrose was showing up drunk in certain red carpet events, and was sloppy beforehand. Him being moved to the pre-show was more of a consequence than a cause in that context, but dude not turning it up in the biggest show was a huge indicator. The upside to it was that it made me appreciate Corbin more. I thought "hey, this dude is actually not so bad and it's a shame Ambrose is pulling a Brock because otherwise it would be decent" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 14 hours ago, C.S. said: Brock does more harm than good and has since his comeback. The people on this board who defended the atrocious Kofi squash need to have their heads examined. For being realists? Alright then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgundy LaRue Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 They're going at a pace with Reigns. I think some of that comes from Roman himself. It seems he appreciates the breather from what was years of turmoil from all sides. Plus, it was a cancer relapse, hardly the thing to take lightly. They literally called Roman the Face of SmackDown during the draft. He's still a top talent. I think they were hoping Rollins would become a true top guy during this time. We see how that's crashing and burning. It's Roman for SmackDown and Becky for RAW for best honors. Part of the Ambrose equation is he had the misfortune of going against a red-hot and newly-turned AJ Styles, who moved to SmackDown during the 2016 draft with him. Roman had two fantastic and memorable matches with AJ pre-draft whereas Ambrose seemed to get swallowed up by the building Cena-Styles rivalry. KS is correct in Ambrose showing up drunk at a few WWE events, he did so during a couple of HOF ceremonies. Ambrose has legitimate reasons for frustration concerning his WWE tenure. But like most wrestling stories, it's complicated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 51 minutes ago, Slasher said: For being realists? Alright then... It takes zero creativity or quite frankly balls to go back to the same formula with the same meathead. Having Kofi win the match would've been something fresh and genuinely surprising - two things WWE hasn't been in forever. But if Kofi had to lose, fine, but make it a fun ten-minute sprint. What we got was bullshit and blatant bait-and-switch false advertising - days after WWE also false-advertised Rey vs. Seth. 1 hour ago, KawadaSmile said: Basically Cena said Ambrose was irrelevant and had no drive. Wow, poor Renee having to listen to that shit about her man from Shovelbearer Cena. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 Also Dean was incredibly over in the summer of 2014 and wwe did nothing to capitalize on it. He lost to Seth and then went into a never ending program with Bray plus remember last year they gave him horrible material with the vaccines and the Bane look. And there were people saying he came up with those ideas himself when it was all Vince. So yeah he was his own worst enemy in certain circumstances but he really was stifled a bunch of times Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 I think Brock is not just the worst thing to happen, he's produced also generally terrible matches that feel important due to the breaking of established narrative rules. I can give people some of the multi-mans or specific moments of matches or maybe something like the Goldberg sprint, but even the almost universally lauded stuff like the Bryan match doesn't work for me. This is the farthest I'm on with Eric/Phil, and I've expressed why plenty of times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 As far as them having a slow burn plan for Roman? Maybe but I don't think they deserve benefit of the doubt for having long term planning anymore. I really hope we don't get another Roman/Brock program come Mania season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 1 hour ago, C.S. said: It takes zero creativity or quite frankly balls to go back to the same formula with the same meathead. Having Kofi win the match would've been something fresh and genuinely surprising - two things WWE hasn't been in forever. But if Kofi had to lose, fine, but make it a fun ten-minute sprint. What we got was bullshit and blatant bait-and-switch false advertising - days after WWE also false-advertised Rey vs. Seth. Wow, poor Renee having to listen to that shit about her man from Shovelbearer Cena. People all over, here included, were tired of Kofi's reign by that point. Could they have gone about it differently? Of course, but it was never a surprise what did happen. So yeah if people who expected that needed their heads examined for actually paying attention to their habits, like I said, alright then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 It was time for Kofi to lose, no one really argues that. Having it be a 5 second squash was lazy bullshit that looks bad in context of the build to him winning based partially on "people like Kofi" not getting title shots. Having him lose to the big jacked-up white guy who's barely around makes it seem like the end of the story was "yup, people like Kofi don't deserve to be champ after all". He should have gone out on his shield after a 10-15 minute sprint where he gave Brock all he could handle before being overwhelmed. Instead he got the total jobber treatment that made him look like a geek that never should have been champ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 5 minutes ago, sek69 said: It was time for Kofi to lose, no one really argues that. Having it be a 5 second squash was lazy bullshit that looks bad in context of the build to him winning based partially on "people like Kofi" not getting title shots. Having him lose to the big jacked-up white guy who's barely around makes it seem like the end of the story was "yup, people like Kofi don't deserve to be champ after all". He should have gone out on his shield after a 10-15 minute sprint where he gave Brock all he could handle before being overwhelmed. Instead he got the total jobber treatment that made him look like a geek that never should have been champ. But if you know Brock, you know that was never going to happen. He didn't even let Ambrose have a decent match with him. But Kofi is? Yeah ok... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted October 20, 2019 Report Share Posted October 20, 2019 6 minutes ago, Slasher said: But if you know Brock, you know that was never going to happen. He didn't even let Ambrose have a decent match with him. But Kofi is? Yeah ok... Ambrose wasn't the champ. That's on Vince. If he can't get Brock to play ball and have a competitive match with the goddamned WWE champion, then that's a failure he has to own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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