Is the empire crumbling before our eyes?

[Dale Wolfe]

I don't really watch much WWE at all these days, just the odd main event etc, but if it's going more towards a TKO era UFC model these days it is not a positive step

The obsession with the shitty little Apex cards and move away from live crowds has mean they can't really build a star anymore, the lowball contracts and pandering towards ageing Jones to the detriment of Aspinall etc, the product has been getting worse and worse for a long time now

I saw that they're increasing the Apex capacity to 10k which I would assume means they're aiming for more of the generic studio model? Maybe that's the natural progression to all of this but the dry TKO fight night era UFC is 80% shit these days 

[The Thread Killer]

Welp…so much for my “TKO isn’t going to get what they want in their next rights deal” theory. As of 2026, all UFC content moves to Paramount+ including their ridiculously priced monthly PPV’s.

That means instead of having to shell out $70 - $80 for monthly PPV events, UFC fans will now get the big “numbered” shows as part of the $12.00 monthly subscription to Paramount+, probably around the time UFC 325 happens.

Not to mention, as part of this deal, UFC will be airing select events on CBS Network television, which is crazy.

A lot of the MMA press are speculating that this might spell the end for PPV events in general, because even Boxing is moving to streaming now.

Between WWE moving their American PLE’s to ESPN for a huge bump up from the Peacock deal, and now UFC moving to Paramount for 7 years at 7.7 Billion, it looks like TKO is literally too big to fail at this point. This company is a monster.

[flyonthewall2983]

The silver lining there is the death of PPV

[sek69]

I suspect if TKO gets their boxing promotion off the ground, however that ends up looking, they will probably be streaming the big fights on Netflix. 

[The Thread Killer]

13 hours ago, flyonthewall2983 said:

The silver lining there is the death of PPV

You said it. Tomorrow night is UFC 319 which has a kickass lineup. The Main Event is for the Middleweight Championship, between two guys who are undefeated in the UFC. All of the undercard fights are between ranked contenders, so the results of those fights will have definite ramifications on the rankings, and who might get title shots next. On top of all that the prelims feature the finals of this past season of The Ultimate Fighter.

But it’s $70.00 and I don’t want to pay $70.00. If this card was taking place in 2026, I would get it as part of my Paramount+ subscription.

A lot of the well-informed MMA press are reporting that this deal is basically Dana White and TKO throwing in the towel and waving the white flag against illegal streaming, because they know there are a ton of people out there who love the UFC product, but either can’t or won’t pay for the monthly numbered PPV’s.

I for one will not miss pay-per-view.

[Robert S]

4 hours ago, The Thread Killer said:

You said it. Tomorrow night is UFC 319 which has a kickass lineup. The Main Event is for the Middleweight Championship, between two guys who are undefeated in the UFC. (...)

After spending two minutes on Wikipedia clicking on "Personal life" on the pages of the main eventers I remember one of the reasons why I stopped watching MMA.

[El-P]

14 hours ago, Robert S said:

After spending two minutes on Wikipedia clicking on "Personal life" on the pages of the main eventers I remember one of the reasons why I stopped watching MMA.

Aww come on, don't be like that. You don't wanna watch an exciting fight between a South African White Supremacist fanboy and the BFF of one of the worst dictator on the planet ? Why making everything political ? People need their entertainment... 😎

And I mean, Helio Gracie was himself part of a Brazilian fascist movement called Integralism. And you had Renzo tweeting motivational quote from Himmler in 2012. So yeah, MMA is *very much*, in essence, fascism compatible (to say the least).

[TheDuke]

15 hours ago, Robert S said:

After spending two minutes on Wikipedia clicking on "Personal life" on the pages of the main eventers I remember one of the reasons why I stopped watching MMA.

"Khamzat carries a notable scar on his lip, which he got at the age of two when he fell down on concrete stairs, leaving him unable to breathe correctly through one nostril." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khamzat_Chimaev

"In April 2023, du Plessis underwent surgery to fix a breathing impairment in his nose. According to his coach Morne Visser, du Plessis had been competing in the UFC with "only 8% oxygen" intake through his nostrils." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dricus_du_Plessis

It's the battle of the mouth breathers!

[The Thread Killer]

6 hours ago, El-P said:

You don't wanna watch an exciting fight between a South African White Supremacist fanboy and the BFF of one of the worst dictator on the planet ? Why making everything political ? People need their entertainment

20 hours ago, Robert S said:

After spending two minutes on Wikipedia clicking on "Personal life" on the pages of the main eventers I remember one of the reasons why I stopped watching MMA.

I do not require professional athletes to undergo an intelligence or a moral purity test before I allow myself to watch sports.  Call me cynical, but I suspect most pro athletes would fail such tests.  Have you ever heard of William Hayes?  He was a player in the NFL who was quite vocal about the fact that he didn't believe that dinosaurs ever existed, and that fossils had been planted by archeologists.  Then consider the case of NBA superstar Kyrie Irving, who was one of many pro athletes who believe the earth is flat. I'd go on with other examples of famous athletes from all sorts of other professional sports, because there are countless examples to cite, but my main point is...

Professional athletes are, for the most part, morons.

I could not possibly care less that Dricus du Plessis is Afrikaner, or is a Trump supporter. This is the UFC, pretty much everybody that works there is a Trump guy. I don't care. I don't care that Khamzat Chimaev is Chechen and is buddies with the Chechen leader.  That has absolutely zero to do with why I will be watching them fight tonight. I know next to nothing about their personal beliefs, and I don't want to know, because once again...I don't care. These are two guys who are going to be locked inside a cage, and are going to beat on each other until one them is knocked unconscious, or quits.  Lets just assume they both already have brain damage and take it from there.

Chimaev is a Freestyle Wrestler, and has never lost a fight in the UFC. Du Plessis is a Kickboxer, who is also undefeated in the UFC, and he is also the UFC Middleweight Champion.  As a fan of combat sports, I want to see who is the better fighter, how the two opposing styles match up against each other, and who is going to be the Middleweight Champion after tonight.

I'm not going to lie, I was seriously considering unplugging my TV, and sitting alone in the dark with only a single candle burning, while I listened to folk music and wept about the state of the planet and the rise of fascism everywhere, while I rocked back and forth, terrified about how any minute now, Donald Trump is going to come crashing through my door and deport me to Florida with tariffs.

But on second thought, I'll just watch the fight instead.  

[NintendoLogic]

https://espnpressroom.com/us/press-releases/2025/08/wwe-premium-live-events-to-debut-on-espn-platforms-in-the-u-s-beginning-september-20-with-first-ever-wrestlepalooza/

The ESPN era is beginning four months early. Apparently, the reason WWE ran so many PLEs this year was so they could get out of their Peacock deal by meeting their contractual obligation for shows. And all mentions of AEW have naturally been removed from the ESPN website. By the way, Peacock just announced a price increase. Enshittification all over.

[JRH]

With WWE beginning to price themselves too high for the average fan to keep up, I can see them losing a good chunk of their younger fan base (maybe AEW should find some way to market to that crowd somehow).

[flyonthewall2983]

I cannot help but wonder if the story out of LA Saturday will have ripple effects between UFC and WWE. I surely hope not but I have about as much faith in Dana White to keep the peace as I have respect, meaning none.

[sek69]

Maybe UFC since Rampage said his son had a concussion recently and shouldn't have been doing anything that physical. I don't see how WWE would have any negative effects from this since their only connection is that it happened at one of their WWE ID associated indy groups. 

[JRH]

WWE has severed ties with Knoxx Pro:

https://www.pwinsider.com/article.php?id=199715

[The Thread Killer]

If the Benoit tragedy didn’t result in any real long term change in the industry (which it really didn’t) then I can’t see this incident causing any long term effects. I suppose you could argue that the Benoit murders brought about a heightened awareness of CTE, but the wind was already blowing in that direction anyways from the NFL.

Sadly, this will probably blow over and the people who are shrieking about it will move on to the next outrage of the day. It takes real will and determination to create change, and I don’t think anybody will stay angry about this incident long enough to allow change to happen. Sadly, the Pro Wrestling industry seems to attract damaged and psychologically maladjusted people. This is probably just the latest example.

Raja Jackson deserves to be criminally charged for assault at the very least, but who knows if even that will happen. Of course, if the victim ends up dying or something, that’s a whole different story.

[Al]

Has anyone in recent memory ever been held criminally liable for assault in a wrestling match? Feels like something that could well set a precedent.

[The Thread Killer]

1 minute ago, Al said:

Has anyone in recent memory ever been held criminally liable for assault in a wrestling match? Feels like something that could well set a precedent.

They tried with New Jack a couple of times, but it never stuck.

[C.S.]

WWE ID Releases:

• Aaron Roberts
• Ice Williams
• Jordan Oasis

Man, this has to be the kiss of death.

"We'll start this program where maybe we're interested in you. Oops! You're not even good enough to even get signed. Bye."

Really a predatory program if you think about it.

[NintendoLogic]

https://www.ringsidenews.com/vince-mcmahons-80th-birthday-party-featured-kid-rock-acdc-tight-lipped-guests-gotham-hall/

There's a whole lot that could be said about this, but I'll just say that being so filthy rich that you can hire AC/DC to play at your birthday party is unfathomable to me.

[El-P]

On 8/26/2025 at 8:36 PM, C.S. said:

Really a predatory program if you think about it.

That's all it ever was, to get their dirty fingers all over indy wrestling (and it has worked, "rebel" GCW have been hosting these shitty ID tournaments events no one care about) and cut off access to other promotions (*cough* AEW *cough*) to some good indy talent they might be interested in. That's all there is to it. The fact someone like Kylie Rae is signed to this shit is such a joke. If they want her, just sign her to NXT. And yeah, getting released from the "not even in our feeders to our feeder system yet" contract is certainly a humiliation.

9 hours ago, NintendoLogic said:

There's a whole lot that could be said about this, but I'll just say that being so filthy rich that you can hire AC/DC to play at your birthday party is unfathomable to me.

This is indeed ridiculous. Then again, I'm more interested in whom in active WWE talent was there, that gives you a good list of real pieces of trash (word is out that several talents are actually waiting to see how the Janel Grant thing ends before they can go back crawling to supporting Vince, which in a way is even worse). Hey, the Miz ! I am so not surprised. 

[flyonthewall2983]

On 8/26/2025 at 1:13 PM, The Thread Killer said:

If the Benoit tragedy didn’t result in any real long term change in the industry (which it really didn’t) then I can’t see this incident causing any long term effects. I suppose you could argue that the Benoit murders brought about a heightened awareness of CTE, but the wind was already blowing in that direction anyways from the NFL.

Sadly, this will probably blow over and the people who are shrieking about it will move on to the next outrage of the day. It takes real will and determination to create change, and I don’t think anybody will stay angry about this incident long enough to allow change to happen. Sadly, the Pro Wrestling industry seems to attract damaged and psychologically maladjusted people. This is probably just the latest example.

Raja Jackson deserves to be criminally charged for assault at the very least, but who knows if even that will happen. Of course, if the victim ends up dying or something, that’s a whole different story.

Regardless of whatever legal action taken or not it still feels like a turning point, and an uncomfortable one as someone more admittedly a kind of fair-weather fan of the current product.

[El-P]

Dying laughing.

The "Vous connaissez NordVPN ?" joke has never been funnier.

[Ricky Jackson]

It's funny I was just talking with some American friends (shoutout @Superstar Sleeze, @Bigelow34) about how when I was a kid in the 80s and 90s i couldn't see Prime Time Wrestling or MSG shows on TV because they didn't air in Canada. Now everything WWE here is on Netflix. Everything. Be jealous Yanks (of course I have Netflix, but outside of the Rumble, I haven't watched anything. 10 year old me would be very confused lol)

[JNLister]

On 8/26/2025 at 6:27 PM, Al said:

Has anyone in recent memory ever been held criminally liable for assault in a wrestling match? Feels like something that could well set a precedent.

https://wrestletalk.com/news/uk-wrestler-convicted-sentenced-for-assault-during-match/