Is Charlotte Flair the most overpushed WWE wrestler of the century?

[NintendoLogic]

Anyway, let's get real. Nothing is in the same galaxy as the early-mid 00s HHH reign of terror in terms of damage to the product from both a business and creative standpoint. Don't allow yourself to be gaslighted by WWE's revisionist history.

[FMKK]

1 hour ago, Loss said:

I think the biggest issue isn't her being overpushed. It's that they haven't created enough stars in the division.

Yeah, it used to be the four horsewomen and everybody else but now its Charlotte & Becky >>>>>>  Sasha, Bayley & Asuka > Nia Jax >>>> Everybody else. Such a huge gulf has opened between those top two and the rest that it seems like slumming it when they're in a feud with anyone outside of that core group rather than feeling like an elevation for the opponent. They used to push Bliss very hard to the point that it seemed like she was the female star of whatever brand she was on but she's been way deemphasised. Carmella was pushed for a while and now is nothing (tbf, she sucks so I get it), Nia was obviously out injured, Shayna's push has been stop and start as has Lacey Evans and Asuka can never recapture what she had when she was undefeated. 

The importance of the women in general went off a cliff once Ronda left really. Even not having the Bellas around seems like a loss to the division. There was a brief period during the split PPV years that Smackdown shows would have three built women's feuds at a time but for a while barely anything outside the title matches has existed so the gap between the top two and the rest has gotten bigger and bigger. I guess that isn't much different for the men but at least slots and programmes exist outside of whatever the world champion is doing.

[El-P]

Agree with @NintendoLogic. Trip was happy to hitchjack the hottest stars in the business since the peak of Hulkamania and marry the boss daughter, then proceeded to cut off the knees of everyone in his path. Maybe if things were different, John Cena would not have been the only true Ace of the last 20 years post Rock & Austin. When you see how Chris Jericho is doing these days, you have to wonder... 

[Strummer]

24 minutes ago, FMKK said:

Yeah, it used to be the four horsewomen and everybody else but now its Charlotte & Becky >>>>>>  Sasha, Bayley & Asuka > Nia Jax >>>> Everybody else. Such a huge gulf has opened between those top two and the rest that it seems like slumming it when they're in a feud with anyone outside of that core group rather than feeling like an elevation for the opponent. They used to push Bliss very hard to the point that it seemed like she was the female star of whatever brand she was on but she's been way deemphasised. Carmella was pushed for a while and now is nothing (tbf, she sucks so I get it), Nia was obviously out injured, Shayna's push has been stop and start as has Lacey Evans and Asuka can never recapture what she had when she was undefeated. 

The importance of the women in general went off a cliff once Ronda left really. Even not having the Bellas around seems like a loss to the division. There was a brief period during the split PPV years that Smackdown shows would have three built women's feuds at a time but for a while barely anything outside the title matches has existed so the gap between the top two and the rest has gotten bigger and bigger. I guess that isn't much different for the men but at least slots and programmes exist outside of whatever the world champion is doing.

Yup one of the biggest stories in the women's division last year or so has been Alexa's depush. She was pushed so strong from 16-18 or so but barely gets any mic time now outside of her talk show segment. She was constantly booked to outsmart the babyfaces and never really got any comeuppance as a heel (Nia beat her at Mania 34 but she outsmarted her again few months later anyway)The only one to decisively beat her was Ronda. 

[Alucard]

I loved that Alexa run. She was having great matches with a wide variety of opponents, particularly enjoyed the Sasha series in 2017.

Charlotte and Carmella took a while to get their chemistry but I think they had a really good match that main event Smackdown in late August 2018. 

[KawadaSmile]

1 hour ago, NintendoLogic said:

If you're talking about their match at Backlash, Carmella sandbagged herself by sucking.

I dunno man, Carmella was clearly very green but she was VERY entertaining at that point. She was talking trash to an emotionless Flair while applying a headlock, on a desperate attempt to give more heat to that match. That was one case of Charlotte adding NOTHING to a match, and she's had some BANGERS entirely on her own.

[El-P]

5 minutes ago, Alucard said:

I loved that Alexa run. She was having great matches with a wide variety of opponents, particularly enjoyed the Sasha series in 2017.

Ditto. I was basically only following WWE for the women back then and Alexa was so much fun.

[Badlittlekitten]

Didn't Ronda hurt Alexa Bliss? I thought the reason she's only working tags was that they're being careful with her.

[El-P]

I believe she got a few concussions, right. 

[NintendoLogic]

The Alexa push was awful. There's not much worse than a heel who verbally eviscerates her opponents before beating them clean. Especially when she's the smallest wrestler in the division and one of the worst workers. Anyway, I'm sure her depush was due to injuries catching up to her. It's hard to build around someone who's on the shelf for an extended period of time every few months.

[Exposer]

Yeah, Alexa's injury issues the last 18 months have pretty much blown the candle out on a big singles push for her. History shows that Vince & the WWE consistently depush wrestlers who consistently get hurt. 

[KawadaSmile]

The only blemish on the Bliss push was that really weird Becky feud. It's a shame, 'cause she was one of the three people outside of the usual horsewomen to shine (and one of them lasted for 1 year)

[FMKK]

11 minutes ago, KawadaSmile said:

The only blemish on the Bliss push was that really weird Becky feud. It's a shame, 'cause she was one of the three people outside of the usual horsewomen to shine (and one of them lasted for 1 year)

The Bayley stuff was pretty shit as well IIRC

[C.S.]

1 hour ago, KawadaSmile said:

I dunno man, Carmella was clearly very green but she was VERY entertaining at that point. She was talking trash to an emotionless Flair while applying a headlock, on a desperate attempt to give more heat to that match. That was one case of Charlotte adding NOTHING to a match, and she's had some BANGERS entirely on her own.

43 minutes ago, NintendoLogic said:

The Alexa push was awful. There's not much worse than a heel who verbally eviscerates her opponents before beating them clean. Especially when she's the smallest wrestler in the division and one of the worst workers. Anyway, I'm sure her depush was due to injuries catching up to her. It's hard to build around someone who's on the shelf for an extended period of time every few months.

Honest to God: I enjoyed Carmella's brief reign and Alexa's push more than Charlotte's entire run.

I don't even hate Charlotte - she's obviously a very talented wrestler and has good (albeit sometimes overrated) matches - but her "Evolved" Naitch character has never, ever clicked with me (especially as a babyface, where she's a lost cause).

[Boss Rock]

22 hours ago, KawadaSmile said:

Real talk it's gotta be her or Triple H.

The similarities between the two are hard to deny.  Both went over as a heel in a major title match at Mania (Mania 2000, Manias 32 and 36). Both feuded with and went over more popular and talented wrestlers in rivalries that were seemingly designed to make them look good. Charlotte submitting Rhea immediately gave me flashbacks to the Reign of Terror.
 

[KawadaSmile]

1 minute ago, C.S. said:

Honest to God: I enjoyed Carmella's brief reign and Alexa's push more than Charlotte's entire run.

I remember having a blast. She knows how to play to the crowd and that type of interaction is golden.

[Boss Rock]

1 hour ago, KawadaSmile said:

I dunno man, Carmella was clearly very green but she was VERY entertaining at that point. She was talking trash to an emotionless Flair while applying a headlock, on a desperate attempt to give more heat to that match. That was one case of Charlotte adding NOTHING to a match, and she's had some BANGERS entirely on her own.

Charlotte's performance in that match is one of the worst performances I've seen in recent memory

[DMJ]

Short answer, "No."

Long answer, "No, but..."

Charlotte shouldn't be dominating 3 brands at once, nobody really should, but, then again, Flair checks a ton of boxes. She's got name value. She's a terrific worker and can be counted on to have good matches. She carries herself like a star and, if I'm not mistaken, is not injury prone, doesn't shy away from the spotlight, and has, according to rumor, wisely politicked to be maintain her cred and status. She's not the best promo, but, man, how many times have we seen Sasha get a live mic only to get caught like a deer in headlights? Before this year, Bayley was the same way. I've always liked Becky and Bliss, but it took awhile for Becky to find a winning character and Alexa Bliss, as others have said, is now seen as damaged goods due to injury.

I'd put Corbin, Del Rio, and HHH above her, for sure. Maybe even Shawn Michaels too. I know I'll get shit for it but Mark Henry might be on the list somewhere above Charlotte. I know it wasn't prolonged, but remember when they tried to make Koslov a big deal? 

I put Charlotte in the same place as Cena - yes, sure, she's been booked really, really strong and has never not been "in the mix" at the top of the card - but the division is comparatively smaller than the men's roster so that's bound to happen when you're also the most consistent, the most reliable, the biggest "name," take the least amount of time off, carry yourself like the biggest star, have the most marketable look in the eyes of the boss, and seem to be the most "corporate." 

[MoS]

I don't remember the Charlotte-Carmella match - tbh I don't think it would have ever captured my interest, going from Asuka to Carmella - but I was going to say that a major factor separating her from Triple H is that she does not make her opponents look like complete jokers who do not belong in the ring with her, unlike Hunter who did it constantly. The times she has put over Sasha, she has done so with no such issues. Same with putting over Bayley. But WWE fucked over Sasha and Bayley and their booking with or without Charlotte. They have spent the last 10 months trying to rehab Bayley with a heel turn, but nothing will match the squandered opportunity they had to get a wrestler legitimately appealing to a new demographic in kids and teenage girls. 

[Strummer]

I think there was a pretty big debate here over Carmella's 2018 push. Lots found her entertaining but a bunch  her matches as champion had like scarily zero heat. It was weird

[KawadaSmile]

I dunno. She not even took a bump for Mia Yim's FINISHER, plus there are several recent matches where her selling is just... less than ideal. She was clearly going through the motions against Carmella in 2018, so I wouldn't say she makes people look great that often, either.

[MoS]

Just now, KawadaSmile said:

I dunno. She not even took a bump for Mia Yim's FINISHER, plus there are several recent matches where her selling is just... less than ideal. She was clearly going through the motions against Carmella in 2018, so I wouldn't say she makes people look great that often, either.

That Mia Yim thing was definitely bad. She's not great as far as making everyone look good by any means. But at least she does not laugh off her losses like Triple H used to do. 

[Badlittlekitten]

HHH aside, the answer to this thread is Seth Rollins. In fact, his prominence on the shows the last few years (and Baron Corbin recently) is to me the biggest giveaway that Vince has lost the plot completely.

[Coffey]

35 minutes ago, MoS said:

That Mia Yim thing was definitely bad. She's not great as far as making everyone look good by any means. But at least she does not laugh off her losses like Triple H used to do. 

That's up there with the John Cena "...nice speech." 

[cad]

Disappointing. I'd rather see an argument for her as the Michael Jordan of the WWF, the same way that Randy Orton is the Tom Brady of the WWF.