#SpeakingOut: Industry-wide sexual misconduct (assault/harrassment/grooming/etc) accusations and their repercussions

[Migs]

I've for a while thought there was likely a middle ground on the Ospreay story where both sides were right. Ospreay presumably believed his friend (which, who knows whether that was reasonable to do or not) and then spoke poorly of Pollyanna, not realizing that if he was like "she sucks, I don't want to be around her" he was basically blackballing her, even if he didn't intend to. He's always struck me as someone incredibly dumb to anything outside of actually wrestling in a ring, someone who sees the world very one dimensionally (remember his weird comments about UK women who couldn't make it in a Japanese dojo?). 

(On Dave's comments, yes, it's a bad comparison. I would say, though, that, going along with the above, Ospreay seems like someone who would be really freaked out by intense negativity directed at him, even if people weren't saying "kill yourself." If he felt that his career was over, I could definitely imagine him losing it, because, again, he seems to understand little other than wrestling.)

[El-P]

Ospreay has dealt with severe depression issues before.

And again, people just seem to ignore one very important point : you don't harass people. Whether they are innocent people or complete assholes, you just don't harass people. Period.

And yeah, we don't know what is the extent of what Ospreay has to deal with, so it's easy to make assumptions about people just  "asking for answers and explanations". Considering the level of idiocy on social media, I wouldn't be surprised the guy received death threats and the likes, from people who think they are "on the good side". If so, that would be exactly the same thing as Hana Kimura, because the person being harassed doesn't matter, it's the process of harassment that does. (which is why people harassing others online just move on from one to another, because the *actual people* don't matter and people doing the harassement always feel "justified" to do so). It's like any kind of abuse : the fact the victim of abuse may be an asshole (or let's push it, a criminal) doesn't make the abuse less abusive. 

EDIT : ok, and now I've listened to it. Sorry but it's ridiculous. Meltz saying the culture of harassment is toxic is not like saying both cases are *identical*. LIke I was saying in this very post, the fact Ospreay may or may not be an asshole is irrelevant to the matter at hand, which is social media harassment. As far as the Ospreay case in itself, yeah Meltz is playing the "I know more but won't say it" card. So there is that, but since apparently he is investigating, wait and see on that front. Which is not the same front as social media bullying and harassment, which is the same front as Hana Kimura. 

[kas]

In other news, Joey Ryan responds 

[KawadaSmile]

Like, no fucking way, dude. It's one fucking hour long and apparently features things like this:

Not getting close to that. Are there any brave soldiers around?

[kas]

Gonna have a gander at it when I wake up

[C.S.]

12 hours ago, Migs said:

He's always struck me as someone incredibly dumb to anything outside of actually wrestling in a ring, someone who sees the world very one dimensionally (remember his weird comments about UK women who couldn't make it in a Japanese dojo?). 

Isn't Ospreay autistic? I am not equating that to what you said about him being dumb - and I know that's not how you meant it either - I am just saying it might explain his "one-dimensional" viewpoint. 

[Migs]

34 minutes ago, C.S. said:

Isn't Ospreay autistic? I am not equating that to what you said about him being dumb - and I know that's not how you meant it either - I am just saying it might explain his "one-dimensional" viewpoint. 

I can't find any confirmation on that, but that might be because Phantasmo calling him the Autistic Assassin dominates the search results. But certainly that could play into what I think could be called Ospreay struggling with certain social situations.

[NotJayTabb]

4 hours ago, KawadaSmile said:

Like, no fucking way, dude. It's one fucking hour long and apparently features things like this:

Not getting close to that. Are there any brave soldiers around?

Here's a write up of it. Spoiler - it won't make you think "Maybe he's got a point here"

https://www.prowrestlingsheet.com/joey-ryan-addresses-speaking-out-allegations-denies-video/#.XxPcivfTWDY

[cactus]

It's crazy how much more of a real sex pest Joey Ryan looks now that he's shaved off his moustache. That clip Bix posted is vile. What a smug, nasty prick that man is. I hope he never gets booked again. 

[MoS]

4 hours ago, NotJayTabb said:

Here's a write up of it. Spoiler - it won't make you think "Maybe he's got a point here"

https://www.prowrestlingsheet.com/joey-ryan-addresses-speaking-out-allegations-denies-video/#.XxPcivfTWDY

The gall. The sheer audacity. And OF COURSE he used Hana Kimura's name and tragic death to get sympathy for himself. What a complete dickbag

[MoS]

https://babyfacevheel.substack.com/p/matt-riddle-cancelled-restraining

Bix with some excellent work in re the Matt Riddle allegations and it does not look good for him. 

[C.S.]

Austin Aries with a half-assed, half-baked statement about the Chrissy Hemme incident:

Quote

"So, my podcast really came out after the #SpeakingOut Movement happened, and my name kind of got thrown out there with the Christy Hemme incident and some other allegations that were thrown out there. And for me, it was kind of the straw to say, 'alright. I always knew if I was ever going to let people in because I'm still kind of carrying kayfabe, and when I'm done, when I feel like I'm content, then I'll open up and I'll really let people in. I put the first two out, and it was really just telling my story of how I got into wrestling, the realities of the culture I was in, what was accepted and not, and what the expectations were."

Aries mentioned the Christy Hemme incident being brought up during the Speaking Out Movement, and that was when Aries intentionally put his crotch in Hemme's face after she botched his introduction in TNA. That happened over seven years ago, and Aries weighed in on people calling him a sexual harasser.

"After that incident in 2013, again, that on-air interaction between me and [Christy Hemme], I got classified as a sexual harasser. And that, for me, was really difficult. It turned me very dark and I really leaned into it. 'If this is what you think of me and who I am, well then, I'll give you that,' because as we know as wrestlers, the most important thing is to listen to the reaction. I don't care if it's good or bad, so I leaned into the bad because it was easy. But that slow and steady rode me personally; it takes a toll," admitted Aries.

"So when those things came out, I had to go and talk to my boss at Bioxcellerator and go, 'Hey, this is coming out but I got this under control. There's no legitimacy to it.' So, I thought it was kind of important to have my voice out there, my story, and now that I've done that, it's out there. You can listen to it, you don't have to listen to it. You can believe it, you can not believe it. I don't really care, but now that I put that out there and it's out there on the record, I can move forward."

https://www.wrestlinginc.com/news/2020/09/austin-aries-responds-to-being-called-a-sexual-harasser-675007/

I was going to say, "Can this guy just go away?" - but it sounds like he's done with wrestling, thank fuck.

If only Austin Aries was anywhere near as good as he thought he was, he'd be the biggest star in the history of wrestling instead of a bland geek who never lasts long anywhere and is impossible to invest in as a fan for that reason. (Ditto for Low-Ki.)

[SirEdger]

Both Aries & Low-Ki have considerably handicapped their success in the business because of their shitty attitude.

[C.S.]

8 minutes ago, SirEdger said:

Both Aries & Low-Ki have considerably handicapped their success in the business because of their shitty attitude.

Aren't both of those useless geeks also anti-facemask types who feel they shouldn't have to care about other "unhealthy" people?

[Log]

12 minutes ago, C.S. said:

Aren't both of those useless geeks also anti-facemask types who feel they shouldn't have to care about other "unhealthy" people?

Yep. It’s almost like there’s a heavy overlap in anti-maskers and assholes.

[MoS]

What a piece of trash

[KawadaSmile]

Just an all-around nice bloke, ain't he?

[clintthecrippler]

Most people are saying that he is unlikely to win such a lawsuit, but even the financial burden of having to fight this lawsuit will likely be enough to bankrupt the people that have been named. So even if he loses the lawsuit, he still will have done plenty to ruin the lives of those named as defendants, and he likely knows that this is exactly what he will accomplish with this lawsuit.

What a piece of shit. 

 

[sek69]

Hopefully there will be some lawyers willing to do some pro bono work for them. You'd think "defending sexual assault victims from a lawsuit brought by the assaulter"  would be something a lawyer would want to have on the resume. Especially since any lawyer worth their salt could easily turn it around on him and put him on the hook for court costs at the very least.

[C.S.]

Joey Ryan somehow looks even creepier without the mustache - with a shave, he went from gigolo rapist to serial killer. 

[rovert]

14 hours ago, clintthecrippler said:

Most people are saying that he is unlikely to win such a lawsuit, but even the financial burden of having to fight this lawsuit will likely be enough to bankrupt the people that have been named. So even if he loses the lawsuit, he still will have done plenty to ruin the lives of those named as defendants, and he likely knows that this is exactly what he will accomplish with this lawsuit.

What a piece of shit. 

 

Joey will likely financially exhaust them and break their will to the point they will settle. Joey then can claim he was proven innocent in Court.

I really hope it goes extremely badly against him and all of Wrestling testifies against him.

[Migs]

It's also VERY curious that there are like 15 accusations and 3 lawsuits. It says he's trying to target those with the weakest corroboration to, as rovert said, try and say he's "innocent."

[MoS]

He is alleging that he was earning $20,000 per month prior to the allegations. In what universe is that even close to a realistic figure? The sheer gall. I really hope wrestling as a whole takes a stance against him.

[ragemaster]

I would guess not all of those accusations against him were were true and those will be the one's he targets. Or those he knows there's no evidence against him.

I'm in the UK, so don't  understand the legal system in the USA.

Surly if he's committed sexual crimes, he should be investigated by the police and if there's evidence to bring charges for the crimes his accused of?

I'm not a fan of trial by twitter, as on the flip side you get cases like Trent Seven who did nothing wrong, but had his name dragged into the speaking out moment. By some crazy woman who basically tried to make herself into a hero by saying she had to sleep with him to stop him sleeping with some girls who were underage to drink. Which then turned out they were of age and were trying to get with Trent themselves. 

Don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying Joey innocent for one second,  But I'm still of the believe that everyone should be held accountable by the courts and not social media.

Unfortunately I am aware of the terrible jobs the legal system deal with rape cases in the UK and America. So I do understand that without the speak out moment these crimes would still be hidden and sexual predators would still be in the locker rooms.

But I am at a loss why they not been investigated by the proper authorities, as you would think until Joey Ryan been found innocent he wouldn't be able to sue anyone, until his investigation is over. Or is no action being taken by the police, did they investigate and find no evidence on Joey Ryan?

[NintendoLogic]

Most sexual assault cases, especially ones that took place years prior, don't have witnesses or physical evidence, which makes it nearly impossible to establish guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. So police generally don't bother investigating allegations unless they absolutely have to.