Good matches "ruined" by their endings

[ohtani's jacket]

I'll take that over phenomenal Dusty promo followed by Dusty match. 

I feel like Steamboat isn't the only worker from that era who was a weak promo but a great in-ring worker. I don't remember guys like Windham, Blanchard or Valentine being great promos. I'm sure they had their moments, but they didn't stand out like Flair, Dusty or Piper. Back then it was enough to be a serviceable promo and have hot studio angles. 

But uncool is a state of mind. There are plenty of times I've thought guys like Nobuhiko Takada were uncool. 

[El-P]

19 minutes ago, ohtani's jacket said:

I'll take that over phenomenal Dusty promo followed by Dusty match. 

Well, me too obviously !

19 minutes ago, ohtani's jacket said:

I feel like Steamboat isn't the only worker from that era who was a weak promo but a great in-ring worker. I don't remember guys like Windham, Blanchard or Valentine being great promos.

Well, Blanchard was a really good promo. The other two, nope, indeed. There's probably something to the fact great workers did not need to be great promos if you had a guy on the other side who could carry the load. Plus the manager culture was much more prevalent for the heels (although that doesn't mean the babyfaces were always good promos anyway, I mean, the fucking Von Erichs...)

19 minutes ago, ohtani's jacket said:

But uncool is a state of mind. There are plenty of times I've thought guys like Nobuhiko Takada were uncool. 

Even General Takada in Hustle ?

Damn. We aren't gonna argue again about Takada for the GWE 2026, are we ?  I mean, I'll probably not re-watch Takada matches at this point anyway, his case (and greatness) is pretty much an established thing as far as I'm concerned.

[Loss]

I don't even know how to break up a single post into multiple quotes where you retain the who said it and timestamp, but it seems like it would take a lot of effort. I really hate the quote function and wish I could disable it. Watch someone use the quote function to reply to me.

[MoS]

13 hours ago, Ricky Jackson said:

I know it happened during a time a lot of fans have difficulty caring about, but Steamboat's most successful and, besides Savage, most memorable angles happened in the late-70s with Ric Flair in the Carolina's. Two were so popular that they were repeated numerous times later on: Flair getting his suit ripped off by Steamer, and Flair rubbing Steamer's face on the cement floor in the studio, leading to "bruises" on the face of a young star very popular with the ladies. Those angles helped draw huge houses in not only the Carolina's but also Toronto, probably the best sustained run of business Steamboat was ever part of. I think you can find footage of at least the face rubbing angle out there.

Also, when I think of Steamboat in WWF I also think of his feuds with Muraco and, especially, Jake Roberts, which both started with memorable angles. Muraco and Fuji hung Steamer on TV in a pretty violent angle for WWF. More famously, Roberts gave Steamer a DDT on the concrete floor on SNME 

Meltzer's theory has always been that he stopped being a draw as he got older and stopped looking as good as he did. There's something to that; as good at selling as Steamboat was, his character was never Ricky Morton. I personally also think that the killer WWF 1980s schedule also broke down his body and stopped his physique from being as impressive as it used to be, in an era where that mattered more than ever. 

[El-P]

5 hours ago, Loss said:

I don't even know how to break up a single post into multiple quotes where you retain the who said it and timestamp, but it seems like it would take a lot of effort.

Not really. I quote, I erase the part of the quote that I don't reply to. Then I quote again and do the same thing. Super easy. 

5 hours ago, Loss said:

I really hate the quote function and wish I could disable it.

Please don't.

5 hours ago, Loss said:

Watch

Yes ?

5 hours ago, Loss said:

someone

Who ?

5 hours ago, Loss said:

use

What ?

5 hours ago, Loss said:

the

WHAT ?

5 hours ago, Loss said:

quote

quote

5 hours ago, Loss said:

function

Ok

5 hours ago, Loss said:

to

Do what ?

5 hours ago, Loss said:

reply

To whom ?

5 hours ago, Loss said:

to

Suspense is riveting...

5 hours ago, Loss said:

me.

Ok let's go !

[Mad Dog]

Wasn't some of the stuff with Steamboat, especially in 1989, his wife making some interjections about his character and gimmick? 

I can also see the physique. When I finally saw old Mid-Atlantic footage and him pre-WWF I was kind of shocked at how ripped he is compared to the late 80s and early 90s.

[Loss]

In spite of that, Steamboat had longevity that he might not have had if his body had always been his gimmick.

[Matt D]

Steamboat was an important cog in WWF and a lot of that was about The Karate Kid and not necessarily his body.

[El-P]

FTR, I loved fire spitting Steamboat. Beats a guy who shows up with a baby.

Do people ever remember that Steamboat was in the WWF for a cup of coffee in 91 ? It's actually the very first time I saw Steamboat.

[Mad Dog]

Speaking of angles. I know LOLTNA but I thought he was good as the commissioner there. Especially his slow heel turn. It's a shame they ran out of money before that went anywhere. 

[JRH]

Has Steiners vs Sting/Luger been mentioned yet? Excellent match, but the Nikita run-in kind of detracts from it.

[MoS]

3 hours ago, Loss said:

In spite of that, Steamboat had longevity that he might not have had if his body had always been his gimmick.

He was more than just a body definitely, but the body and his young boyish looks definitely had a big role in his drawing power, which was at its peak from about 1978-84. 

3 hours ago, Matt D said:

Steamboat was an important cog in WWF and a lot of that was about The Karate Kid and not necessarily his body.

He wasn't really in any position to actually draw in WWF though, was he?

[Mad Dog]

You would need to look at how they structured the house shows while he was there. It's possible some of his programs were carrying the B show circuit. 

[Log]

3 hours ago, El-P said:

FTR, I loved fire spitting Steamboat. Beats a guy who shows up with a baby.

What if he’d shown up with a fire-spitting baby?

I stared this whole discussion about him, so I feel like I should point out that Steamboat is one of my all-time favorites. It just occurred to me that his most-classic matches were title matches, but he never really got memorable reigns. 

[Matt D]

24 minutes ago, MoS said:

He was more than just a body definitely, but the body and his young boyish looks definitely had a big role in his drawing power, which was at its peak from about 1978-84. 

He wasn't really in any position to actually draw in WWF though, was he?

Lots of metrics to think about. For instance, he was featured in one way or another in SNME I, III, IV, VI, VII, IX, X, and XI). I'm not going to REALLY look at it, but at a glance I think that's second to only Hogan in those 11 shows.

 

[Ricky Jackson]

Steamer vs Savage rematches post Mania 3 headlined one of the groups around the loop and didnt draw well, but post Mania shows didnt draw well in general in the early days 

[Al]

5 hours ago, El-P said:

FTR, I loved fire spitting Steamboat. Beats a guy who shows up with a baby.

Do people ever remember that Steamboat was in the WWF for a cup of coffee in 91 ? It's actually the very first time I saw Steamboat.

I have the action figure!

[C.S.]

21 hours ago, El-P said:

Not really. I quote, I erase the part of the quote that I don't reply to. Then I quote again and do the same thing. Super easy. 

You don't even need to do that. You can highlight only what you want to quote and a little "Quote selection" box will pop up. Click that, and then rinse and repeat as needed.

(On desktop anyway. Not sure about mobile.) 

[El-P]

2 hours ago, C.S. said:

You don't even need to do that. You can highlight only what you want to quote and a little "Quote selection" box will pop up. Click that, and then rinse and repeat as needed.

I *knew* there was a simpler way but I never paid attention to this ! And I knew someone was gonna point it out to me too !

[Loss]

Or don't quote! We all saw the previous post.

[C.S.]

On 3/15/2021 at 9:15 AM, El-P said:

Do people ever remember that Steamboat was in the WWF for a cup of coffee in 91 ? It's actually the very first time I saw Steamboat.

I do, because it's the first time I saw him too. I found the fire-breathing shit hokey. I wanted more of a "Karate Kid" gimmick, which I guess is kinda what he was before. It wasn't until he showed up at WCW Clash of the Champions as a mystery partner for Dustin Rhodes vs. Arn Anderson and Larry Zbyszko and had an absolute banger of a match - as the kids today would say - that I truly became a fan.

BTW, I'm not sure how I'd reply to this without using the quote function, seeing as there have been several other posts since (including from me).

[soup23]

Brock vsReigns from Mania 31 is first one that came to mind. Crowd was cheering for Roman And they had delivered an amazing match that probably was the best main event in history. Then Rollins cashes in, the internet mostly rejoices in the shock factor and WWE has been rehabbing for 6 years unable to find a star that had the breakout potential Roman had at that very moment.

[Loss]

58 minutes ago, C.S. said:

I do, because it's the first time I saw him too. I found the fire-breathing shit hokey. I wanted more of a "Karate Kid" gimmick, which I guess is kinda what he was before. It wasn't until he showed up at WCW Clash of the Champions as a mystery partner for Dustin Rhodes vs. Arn Anderson and Larry Zbyszko and had an absolute banger of a match - as the kids today would say - that I truly became a fan.

BTW, I'm not sure how I'd reply to this without using the quote function, seeing as there have been several other posts since (including from me).

I'm mostly joking. (Mostly.) It's a personal quirk, not anything approaching a board rule.

[khawk20]

On 3/15/2021 at 9:15 AM, El-P said:

FTR, I loved fire spitting Steamboat. Beats a guy who shows up with a baby.

Do people ever remember that Steamboat was in the WWF for a cup of coffee in 91 ? It's actually the very first time I saw Steamboat.

I think I remember seeing Steamboat vs. Haku at MSG around then. Could be mistaken.

[Mad Dog]

9 hours ago, soup23 said:

Brock vsReigns from Mania 31 is first one that came to mind. Crowd was cheering for Roman And they had delivered an amazing match that probably was the best main event in history. Then Rollins cashes in, the internet mostly rejoices in the shock factor and WWE has been rehabbing for 6 years unable to find a star that had the breakout potential Roman had at that very moment.

This is a good one. It undercut Reigns pretty badly and then Seth as champion chased off a huge portion of the audience. This is really the point that started the path to where they find themselves today with record low ratings.