Is the empire crumbling before our eyes?

[strobogo]

4 hours ago, Embrodak said:

I agree, though Kenny has a pacifist vibe that makes it plausible to me that he was just trying to pull the guys apart and Ace misinterpreted it in the heat of the moment.
 

There is a part of me that thinks Punk was immensely dumb to think the Elite were going to jump him. They are like the least likely three dude combo ever in wrestling to form a posse to initiate shoot fisticuffs. If he wasn’t (probably) hurting like crazy from the muscle tear and tired of having blood all over him, he probably would have realized that they were just coming to chew him out and throw their EVP weight around.

This would all be much simpler if we lived in more of an honor culture. A duel would be a very straightforward resolution of this conflict.

Kenny and Punk should be forced to have a duel but they can only use knee strikes

[NintendoLogic]

Omega's MMA career is at least as successful as Punk's.

https://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Tyson-Smith-22395

Yes, the Severn fight actually happened, although it looks like it was clearly worked.

[MoS]

Meltzer says Omega has himself told him that he's never had an MMA fight. MMA records are notoriously unreliable.

[The Thread Killer]

7 hours ago, sek69 said:

All I'm saying, and I like the Bucks, is that if I saw them coming at me my reaction wouldn't be to be so in fear of my safety I though I needed to star swinging to protect myself.  Honestly the only one of the group that could potentially have fighting skills is Kenny because as a Canadian he grew up playing hockey so is probably at least semi decent at throwing hands. 

In the version of the fight I envision in my mind’s eye, Kenny and The Bucks were already crying when they confronted Punk. And once punches started being thrown, it escalated to full blown sobbing, accompanied by some whining and babbling about how mean and unfair Punk was being about the whole thing.

I know that’s not how it happened, but that’s how I like to imagine it, mostly because unlike you, I do NOT like The Bucks. 

[Perfectly Straightedge]

I think something is missed is CM Punk was high on adrenaline. The dude injured himself, just got through wrestling Jon Moxley and goes on his tirade. So it makes sense that he be ready to fight. It's how the human body acts. He probably got into the "fight or flight" mentality and that's what happen. It's honestly that simple. 

It doesn't matter how The Bucks acted when your body hits that feeling it's game over. People can be nice or they can be aggressive but all it takes is one thing no matter how little or small and BOOM you have a bomb going off in your head. So yeah I can see why CM Punk did it. Everyone is guilty though. The Bucks and Kenny for being stupid and trying to "Speak" to someone who is OBVIOUSLY pissed off especially when he just stopped talking. Smart thing to do is wait till the adrenaline wears off then talk or confront. Cause you can't confront anyone in that state cause it's going to be a fight no matter what. So I think The Elite is just guilty of being morons and not knowing the first thing about leading. I think the punishments are fair it is what would happen in sports. People get suspended and they move on with each other, leave for another team, or just retire.

Who knows what the endgame is, cause right now it's all just speculation as to what will happen next when I don't think even Tony Khan knows what is next.

[Flyin' Brian]

Maybe we will never know what really happened, maybe it just depends on who you believe, but right now neither the Bucks and Omega nor Punk are on tv or attending any AEW events in an official capacity. Being the Elite is currently on hiatus. Omega is not allowed to wrestle at AAA Triplemania XXX next month. Punk is currently scheduled to do commentary at an MMA event next month unless he gets pulled or decides himself not to do it. That’s the only official appearance scheduled by any of the four currently. 

[KawadaSmile]

Listen if this turns out to be true, should we call his run a bust? In one year he had two big injuries and got suspended. Business seems to be doing better WITHOUT him!

[sek69]

It's weird, since he did make a noticeable difference in business but it was at the expense of all the turmoil it caused. Despite the houses he drew I think in the end it was a net negative. 

[Embrodak]

Punk, to me, put on by far the most compelling story in the history of the company, idk how one could call that a waste. Even with the bullshit, I fucking loved this run.

[Jmare007]

7 hours ago, KawadaSmile said:

Listen if this turns out to be true, should we call his run a bust? In one year he had two big injuries and got suspended. Business seems to be doing better WITHOUT him!

Come on bubba, at least read the story before just posting the click bait tweet/title. The whole thing is based on Wade Keller's speculation on the subject, not any reporting.

[KawadaSmile]

1 hour ago, Embrodak said:

Punk, to me, put on by far the most compelling story in the history of the company, idk how one could call that a waste. Even with the bullshit, I fucking loved this run.

Oh, that's for fucking sure. It's a bust in the same way Martel's run in late-90s WCW was. Dude was on a roll, having some of his greatest singles stuff, until he had two major injuries in a row. Almost the same thing happened to Punk, but his card placement was much higher. 

56 minutes ago, Jmare007 said:

Come on bubba, at least read the story before just posting the click bait tweet/title. The whole thing is based on Wade Keller's speculation on the subject, not any reporting.

Let me savor that man's downfall bubba

[MoS]

8 hours ago, KawadaSmile said:

Listen if this turns out to be true, should we call his run a bust? In one year he had two big injuries and got suspended. Business seems to be doing better WITHOUT him!

This is not Twitter. He had some excellent matches, great feuds with Kingston, MJF and Mox, got AEW to start hitting 1 million viewers on a regular basis, cut numerous great promos, and made Chicago an AEW city. Roman Reigns would sacrifice his firstborn to have a year as great as this one. 

[KawadaSmile]

13 minutes ago, MoS said:

This is not Twitter. He had some excellent matches, great feuds with Kingston, MJF and Mox, got AEW to start hitting 1 million viewers on a regular basis, cut numerous great promos, and made Chicago an AEW city. Roman Reigns would sacrifice his firstborn to have a year as great as this one. 

Sorry, couldn't hear you over the sound of the Tribal Chief, the Head of the Table Roman Reigns being PWI 500's Number One! Truly, he's working on God Mode for nearly ONE THOUSAND DAYS!

[MoS]

And in 1000 days he hasn't had one match that comes close to Punk v. Kingston

[DR Ackermann]

Ratings are up because it was the end of the summer. Ratings always dip in the summer.

[DR Ackermann]

Calling CM Punk's run a bust is ludicrous however you feel about him. He helped elevate MJF. He had as good of a match for match run as anyone else in company history. He reestablished a more rewarding and engaging in ring style, and helped other wrestlers take their work up a level. And he, (along with Kingston and to a lesser extent, Mox) gave us the best promo work in the business. And that's just from a critical standpoint. He was great for business.

[sek69]

I mean I can see the argument of it being a bust in the sense that had he kept his fucking mouth shut maybe be could have had a few more years like this instead of having just one. At least its a hell of a "what if".

[Jesse Ewiak]

2 hours ago, MoS said:

This is not Twitter. He had some excellent matches, great feuds with Kingston, MJF and Mox, got AEW to start hitting 1 million viewers on a regular basis, cut numerous great promos, and made Chicago an AEW city. Roman Reigns would sacrifice his firstborn to have a year as great as this one. 

Pretty sure Roman is fine being the main guy on the #1 wrestling show in the world, main eventing stadium show after stadium show, (including if Chicago wasn't Chicago when it comes to weather - Wrigley Field could easily be a baseball stadium they sell out in no-time for a Rumble all for it being an AEW "city"), and does it all while actually being respected by other wrestlers, including members of the AEW roster, as opposed to being seen as a broken down bitter crank. 

If anything, I'd argue the true Twitter opinion is pretending that Punk has had anything close to the past year Roman has, outside of the niche. 

What Punk (and Bryan & Cole's signing) showed is there were people maybe interested in their comeback to wrestling, but everything else or the booking, judging by the ratings refusing to get past their first show, turned those people new fans off. Maybe on a pure ROI-level it worked becaus of merch and ticket sales, it was a positive, but I'm old enough to remember when Punk was comparing himself to Nash & Hall after he debuted. 

[MoS]

5 hours ago, Jesse Ewiak said:

Pretty sure Roman is fine being the main guy on the #1 wrestling show in the world, main eventing stadium show after stadium show, (including if Chicago wasn't Chicago when it comes to weather - Wrigley Field could easily be a baseball stadium they sell out in no-time for a Rumble all for it being an AEW "city"), and does it all while actually being respected by other wrestlers, including members of the AEW roster, as opposed to being seen as a broken down bitter crank. 

If anything, I'd argue the true Twitter opinion is pretending that Punk has had anything close to the past year Roman has, outside of the niche. 

What Punk (and Bryan & Cole's signing) showed is there were people maybe interested in their comeback to wrestling, but everything else or the booking, judging by the ratings refusing to get past their first show, turned those people new fans off. Maybe on a pure ROI-level it worked becaus of merch and ticket sales, it was a positive, but I'm old enough to remember when Punk was comparing himself to Nash & Hall after he debuted. 

He made AEW consistently be number one for the day in ratings, and top 5 in the week. Yes, AEW has not approached its debut show rating. By this logic, Roman's entire run is a dud because SD has never come close to the numbers it got for its debut on Fox. Except that is patently ridiculous, and so is pretending that Punk was not a difference maker. And it's cute how ticket sales are a great positive for WWE, but AEW doing multiple $1 million gates and regularly beating WWE in ticket sales when they would run the same areas around the same period of time, including NYC, after Punk came (the first non-WWE company to ever do so) is just an "RoH-level" niche difference. 

And since we are so focused on business, let's not forget that WWE's business has turned around and been the hottest it's been in years precisely from the time Roman decided to be a part-timer and an AEW midcarder returned at Wrestlemania and immediately made Raw extremely hot. Not once has announcing Roman for a particular show made a tangible difference in ratings or ticket sales. That's one of the main reasons why AEW was beating WWE in ticket sales for TV tapings regularly after Punk showed up. So clearly his run is a dud and the McMahons, Cena and Cody should only be the main eventers. Except no one says that. Nor should they.

Oh, and Hall and Nash didn't have a particularly significant impact on business. WCW went on a streak, but WCW was regularly beating WWF in the ratings even prior to that. House show attendance had rebounded and increased prior to their debut, with the Flair-Savage feud. It was Hogan's return and turn that got business to a new level. 

[Dav'oh]

Punk didn't cause any problems.

No matter how caustic or inflammatory his rhetoric, and that's all it was, he didn't "cause" Kenny and the Jacksons to do what they allegedly did. He gave an interview expressing his truth with the tacit endorsement of the company's owner.

It's the titular EVPs who caused whatever this nonsense is, with their response.

On the plus side: Kenny gets more time to heal whatever he hurried back from, Punk gets to heal, Nick Jackson's coccyx (which must be compacted into his sacrum, if not his L3, by now from all those Meltzer Drivers) breathes a sigh of relief, and Tony Khan has mega-money matches on the table, should all parties be amenable to bucketloads of cash.

Come to think of it, what problems? Last show was huge. 

[MoS]

Punk v. Bucks shootfight sounds like a fight even the Texas athletic commission wouldn't sanction for MMA amateur cards in its jurisdiction.

I miss Punk's angles but honestly, not having the Elite around doing corny comedy and melodrama is a bonus. Tony should let all the nxt 1.0 alumni go as well. Never understood his obsession with them, given they got their asses kicked going against his show and his wrestlers.

[Matt D]

6 hours ago, DR Ackermann said:

He reestablished a more rewarding and engaging in ring style,

This is the most important thing and the biggest loss. There’s no one else that can carry the torch. A few years of it being a counterweight to the Elite would have made so much difference.

[Migs]

10 hours ago, MoS said:

... made Chicago an AEW city. Roman Reigns would sacrifice his firstborn to have a year as great as this one. 

Chicago was an AEW city way before him. It's the fanbase there that literally launched the company. Was Punk an even bigger draw in Chicago? Yes. But AEW was big in Chicago before, and I think will likely be fine after him.

[Dav'oh]

He's not dead, y'all 

Seeing a lot of eulogies for the bloke.

This is not how the CM Punk/Phil Brooks story ends. Dude wants a legacy like Bret.

[MoS]

Just now, Migs said:

Chicago was an AEW city way before him. It's the fanbase there that literally launched the company. Was Punk an even bigger draw in Chicago? Yes. But AEW was big in Chicago before, and I think will likely be fine after him.

I don't disagree, given recent ticket pre-sales in Chicago. Punk definitely isn't a Hogan/Austin/Rock/Cena-esque difference maker, I think we all agree on that