AEW/ROH TV April 19-21

[Big Pete]

13 minutes ago, TimCooke said:

Yea, that was not his best match at all.

If you have a chance, watch the ROH Vikingo match.  They start with actual lucha mat work and then get to the high spots.

Your mileage may vary when it comes to the mat-work. It looked as loose as anything, for mine the match was all about the dives which were spectacular.

Also I 100% co-sign with MoS and MLB on Darby. The exception to every rule and one of the few guys who could have transcended eras.

[strobogo]

Jungle Boy really should have dropped all "jungle" stuff a while ago, but definitely after the Christian feud. JR had been trying to transition to Jack Perry since day one and it is well past time to "mature" the gimmick. Personally I think he should switch to tights and perhaps actual boots as part of a glow up. At least just move to Jungle Jack Perry and switch up the gear.

[KawadaSmile]

6 hours ago, MoS said:

Darby Allin is one of the best wrestlers in the world and was a needle-mover when he was TNT champ, both with a great presence and incredible matches in the bank. He will definitely make my GWE list. Far better than Wardlow or Cody, far better than most wrestlers wrestling today

Darby is the closest of the three, but even so MJF is a more complete wrestler. Despite him having some yuck ideas for his feud with Bryan, he is clearly the one comfortable for the main event.

He has an unique look and unique style, like you said. I remember someone here comparing him to Jeff Hardy, which kinda makes sense.

[NintendoLogic]

I've always gotten Sabu/Cactus Jack vibes from Darby myself.

[MoS]

I honestly think his ceiling is as high as Mysterio's, and I don't say that lightly

[Jmare007]

A heel CM Punk with a 3-6 month feud with Darby could solidify him as a main event player, just like the MJF feud did for Max. 

[The Man in Blak]

7 hours ago, sek69 said:

Sammy has potential, but my fear is if you give him a main event push he's going to do something stupid again.

Yeah, Guevara is AEW’s version of Randy Orton. He’s been living off of “potential” since the very first TV match in AEW history, which is why it was hilarious for him to deliver lines about Darby and Perry being the “chosen ones” in that dreadful opening segment last night.

For all of the criticisms of how MJF leans into edgelord crap for his promos, at least he still stays on task and reads the room - Jack Perry may be a dud on the mic, but I think Sammy might actually be more damaging with his promo work because he has all the wrong instincts on the mic paired with no self-awareness whatsoever.

4 hours ago, Blehschmidt said:

I feel like with the "I'm so happy to be here, I work so hard, and my dream is to be World Champion" interviews that they are having Sammy give on the All Access show, as well as just doing everything to portray him in a positive light, plus the continued talk of how their relationship derailed Tays babyface run, that he is going to win this thing and they are going to try and turn him.

This still feels unlikely to me, even with the bizarre decision to have MJF help Sammy win last night, but who knows. All Access has definitely been going above and beyond to try and repair Sammy’s image - they clearly see him holding the big belt at some point, for whatever reason.

[KawadaSmile]

25 minutes ago, The Man in Blak said:

Yeah, Guevara is AEW’s version of Randy Orton. He’s been living off of “potential” since the very first TV match in AEW history, which is why it was hilarious for him to deliver lines about Darby and Perry being the “chosen ones” in that dreadful opening segment last night.

Who's gonna be the Mick Foley in his case? Like, Sammy Guevara is nearly 30 and still hasn't had a feud to elevate him to that next level like Orton had in his mid-20s. I guess the matches against Cody were nice, but he didn't really ride any sort of momentum.

[The Man in Blak]

1 minute ago, KawadaSmile said:

Who's gonna be the Mick Foley in his case? Like, Sammy Guevara is nearly 30 and still hasn't had a feud to elevate him to that next level like Orton had in his mid-20s. I guess the matches against Cody were nice, but he didn't really ride any sort of momentum.

If you were to believe All Access, he's already had those matches and they were with Danielson. (But yeah, for those of us still grounded in reality, I think we're still waiting.)

[Jmare007]

More often than not, a match doesn't elevate you to main event status by itself, you gotta add some character work that goes along (hopefully) with a good feud. Considering Sammy hasn't had the latter, they only have to former to push the narrative that "he's ready".

[Timbo Slice]

The main event was just a bunch of stuff: It’s baffling to me how much folks want to all work this style of dangerous moves without any connectivity between them. Upping the danger just by going to the next one doesn’t a build make. 
 

Sammy’s issue is always contextual: He’s a terrible babyface because he’s too slimy, and as a heel, he leans into the wrong stuff, especially given his offense is more babyface oriented. He’s flipped on axis, and he can’t find his footing given any type of push. He needs direction more than anything, and there’s nobody there to give it to him. 
 

Darby GETS wrestling. He was great from the start, essentially. It’s why he’s the best foil for Max, but the other ones need more than just work or the right opponent. They need paradigm shifts to make them better, and those don’t come from getting overexposed. 

[The Thread Killer]

Here is the lineup for ROH on Honor Club tonight. It’s a fair bit better than the last few weeks, but that’s really not saying much.

ROH World Television Championship: Samoa Joe (c) vs. Colt Cabana

I am sure this will be a competitive match but it really shouldn’t be. Cabana is pretty much useless as far as I’m concerned.

Proving Ground Match: Athena vs. Heather Reckless

Weekly ROH TV wouldn’t be ROH TV without Athena beating the crap out of some poor girl I’ve never heard of. I can’t see this being any different. I am totally digging Athena’s new gimmick and her reign of terror so far, but the problem is that they have nobody to put in front of her as a credible challenger. If you think the AEW Women’s Division is shite, ROH is even worse. Where the hell is Serena Deeb?

El Hijo Del Vikingo vs. Gringo Loco

I don’t know who Gringo Loco is, but based on his name it’s probably going to be a whole bunch of flippy goodness for those who enjoy that kind of thing.

Lance Archer vs. JAH-C

This is going to be legalized murder. It’s going to be a total squash.

Brian Cage vs. Joey Jett

See above. For reasons known only to him, Tony Khan seems determined to make Brian Cage a thing, by just pushing him relentlessly. See Garcia, Daniel and Yuta, Wheeler for examples. 

Konosuke Takeshita vs. Lee Moriarty

Now this is more like it. These are the kind of matches I want to see in the new ROH. I know Takeshita is going to win, and so he should…but it should be a great match and give both guys a chance to shine.

Dark Order (John Silver & Alex Reynolds) vs. Lee Johnson & Cole Karter

I would be a bit more interested in this match if it was Uno & Grayson not Silver and Reynolds (but not much.) I like Johnson and Karter both. This is another example of the kind of matches ROH should be featuring in my opinion. I assume something will be happening around this match to advance the developing Dark Order/Righteous angle.

Penta El Zero Miedo vs. Nick Comoroto

Comoroto is another AEW guy who has shown a lot of potential but has become lost in the Dark/Elevation vortex. Penta will win, but I am curious how Comoroto will acquit himself. I am further curious if something will transpire around this match to give us a clue to who the next challengers might be for the ROH Tag Titles, since Penta and Fenix just won them recently.

Iron Savages vs. Ren Jones & Logan Lynch

For those not in the know, Iron Savages are perennial Dark/Elevation regulars “Bear Country” repackaged. I assume the opponents are enhancement talent. I am reserving judgment on this until I see it.

Willow Nightingale vs. Robyn Renegade

Speaking of talent Tony Khan seems determined to ram down everybody’s throat and make happen no matter what…here’s Willow Nightingale. I freely admit, I can’t stand her gimmick, she has the proverbial “change the channel” heat with me. Her music hits, and she comes bouncing out to the ring, grinning like a simpleton and waving to the fans while goofy music plays and cartoonish graphics are plastered on the tron. She’s like a cross between Bayley’s original gimmick and fucking Eugene. But she’s on ROH TV, every week…no matter what. Bleh. Hard pass.

The Kingdom vs. Action Andretti & Darius Martin

So I guess this is the match where we find out if the Kingdom/Top Flight feud is really going to continue with Andretti just sliding into Dante’s spot…or if this will wrap it up. I am somewhat curious to see how Martin & Andretti do. You’d think The Kingdom win here and maybe move into a rivalry with The Lucha Bros for the titles, but who knows.

 

[MoS]

22 minutes ago, Jmare007 said:

More often than not, a match doesn't elevate you to main event status by itself, you gotta add some character work that goes along (hopefully) with a good feud. Considering Sammy hasn't had the latter, they only have to former to push the narrative that "he's ready".

Yeah, with Randy Orton, the hardcore match with Cactus was just the culmination; it was a 10-month long feud where Randy showed tremendous growth and..err...well..evolution. His 2003-04 heel run remains the best work of his career, as much as some people love his 2009 heel run, which I always felt was overrated. 

Sammy hasn't done anything close to it. I don't think he is capable of doing that. Ironically, working with Punk might force him to do it. It certainly made MJF add layers to his character and evolve as a worker. But given how Tay liked that shit Deadspin article about Punk "gaslighting" AEW, that's probably not going to happen. 

[Jmare007]

12 minutes ago, MoS said:

Yeah, with Randy Orton, the hardcore match with Cactus was just the culmination; it was a 10-month long feud where Randy showed tremendous growth and..err...well..evolution. His 2003-04 heel run remains the best work of his career, as much as some people love his 2009 heel run, which I always felt was overrated. 

Sammy hasn't done anything close to it. I don't think he is capable of doing that. Ironically, working with Punk might force him to do it. It certainly made MJF add layers to his character and evolve as a worker. But given how Tay liked that shit Deadspin article about Punk "gaslighting" AEW, that's probably not going to happen. 

I guess but like I said before, if you wanna use Punk to try and repeat what he did for MJF, then use it for Darby because that's almost a sure fire hit and doesn't have the trouble nor the uncertainty of doing it with Sammy.

If they are so hellbent on Sammy, use Christian like they did for Jungle Boy.

[MoS]

6 minutes ago, Jmare007 said:

I guess but like I said before, if you wanna use Punk to try and repeat what he did for MJF, then use it for Darby because that's almost a sure fire hit and doesn't have the trouble nor the uncertainty of doing it with Sammy.

I agree. 

Also, like someone said in this thread, this entire 4 Pillars is so contrived in the first place. Why are Sammy and Perry pillars, but not Starks and Hobbs? What about Britt and Jamie? Fucking Hangman Page (whose title reign feels so underrated business-wise, AEW would love to get that level of ratings and POV buys now)? The Lucha Bros? Like, just an entirely arbitrary concept with no solid basis. 

[KawadaSmile]

10 minutes ago, Jmare007 said:

I guess but like I said before, if you wanna use Punk to try and repeat what he did for MJF, then use it for Darby because that's almost a sure fire hit and doesn't have the trouble nor the uncertainty of doing it with Sammy.

Funny you mention that because in their match Punk was certainly working more snug, being the condescending vet. Would 100% work in Darby's case, too.

[Migs]

16 hours ago, Tenese Sarwieh said:

I know they have to sink or swim with the Pillars on the mic, but that opening segment was horrible, with MJF saving it a little.

The material stinks. The whole angle appears to be a debate about who's most earned a "you deserve it" chant.

[Al]

 

Quote

 

El Hijo Del Vikingo vs. Gringo Loco

I don’t know who Gringo Loco is, but based on his name it’s probably going to be a whole bunch of flippy goodness for those who enjoy that kind of thing.

 

Phil Schneider had Gringo on his Blade podcast. American who made his name as a luchador. His nickname is the "Base God," so you can imagine how that works with Vikingo.

[strobogo]

Sammy has been overpushed and overhyped by the company literally since day one. He's never been over to the extent that he's been pushed, he's just not likeable, his promos suck, and there are probably literally 80 guys working for AEW that can do everything he does in the ring as good or better. I do not understand why Tony (and Excalibur) love him so much.

[Timbo Slice]

Because you can’t teach potential along with the more nefarious reasons Tony and him reportedly get along. 

[Dale Wolfe]

Currently watching last weeks Rampage on ITV after a late shift 

Jake Hager is rapping? This is some of the worst TV I've ever saw in my life genuinely 

[Dale Wolfe]

Jungle Boy is a good laugh though. This is the wrong thread isnt it

[C.S.]

5 hours ago, Timbo Slice said:

Because you can’t teach potential along with the more nefarious reasons Tony and him reportedly get along. 

Which are?

Don't say something like this if you're going to speak in code.

Your name isn't Dave Meltzer.

[sek69]

I watched a few GCW shows that Gringo Loco was on, and he was pretty good. I was expecting him to get exposed when they brought lucha guys in, but he held his own and as stated he is an excellent base (which is kind of a lost art outside of Mexico these days). 

[strobogo]

1 hour ago, C.S. said:

Which are?

Don't say something like this if you're going to speak in code.

Your name isn't Dave Meltzer.

I imagine he means coke