CM Punk Fired

[PeteF3]

10 hours ago, C.S. said:

Weirdest Punk "newz" yet, courtesy of bodyslam.net, so I don't know what to make of it.

Multiple sources have confirmed to me details about an incident that took place between CM Punk and William Regal, which took place when Regal made his AEW debut. In the altercation between the two men, Punk refused to shake Regal’s hand, and would then get in the legends face, telling him that he did not like him, he did not trust him and that Regal was a “stooge for Triple H.”

This feels exaggerated at best and smells like bullshit at worst, but who knows...

That story was circulating around the time of Brawl Out from the likes of rovert. It doesn't really smell like bullshit to me at all. I'm not saying I automatically believe every word of it, but I don't know what's particularly hard to believe about Punk having beef with...uh, anybody.

[C.S.]

21 minutes ago, pmo said:

Frankly at minimum Tony should strip them of their EVP titles.

Do they still have any real power beyond their bullshit ceremonial title? Tony took full control years ago, and Jericho has publicly mocked the the "mark" designation, saying he was offered an EVP position at the beginning and asked for more money instead.

But yeah, either way, it's a bad look for "management" to be acting like children.

Punk wasn't wrong when he said he worked with children.

  

1 minute ago, PeteF3 said:

That story was circulating around the time of Brawl Out from the likes of rovert. It doesn't really smell like bullshit to me at all. I'm not saying I automatically believe every word of it, but I don't know what's particularly hard to believe about Punk having beef with...uh, anybody.

The bullshit is all the stuff you don't automatically believe.

I have no idea what rovert reported, so I can't comment on that.

[PeteF3]

I don't pay attention to rovert either, but a few retweets and discussion on the Observer Board brought it to my attention.

That discussion also saw an embed of rovert asking if this story was going to come to light again, and SRS replied, "Probably very soon." So he's heard the same thing.

[KawadaSmile]

Christopher Daniels still being employed amidst all this despite being woeful at his job is the most glaring part of the story.

[C.S.]

Feels like there are several pieces missing.

Sure, Punk could be unhinged enough to confront Regal on the first day for no reason and start spouting paranoid conspiracy theories about him being a "mole" for Triple H and WWE, but that seems like a stretch - even for Cranky Miserable Punk.

Is there any history between them we don't know about?

[Mr Wrestling 2000]

Hangman is the King, he makes one off hand comment in a promo and it destroyed cm punks ability to function. Mox was right, weak body weak mind.

[DMJ]

I watched the video and I'm not sure that less than 10 untelevised seconds of holding his arms up and circling the ring 1.5 times is that big a deal. Hell, I like the Young Bucks much better as heels (if they're going to be on TV at all, which I'm kinda indifferent about generally) and, in Chicago, that's what they're going to be. Might as well lean into it. The fans in attendance want to engage in this sort of stuff. I sure as hell loved chanting "You Screwed Bret" at Earl Hebner and Shawn Michaels for years after 97' and, in Canada, Shawn sure as shit - even after becoming born again - still didn't seem to mind getting that heat. (And Shawn, post-return, may not have been an executive, but he certainly had some stroke.)

But I'll refrain from the what-aboutism and say this...

I'm with many here and am definitely bummed that CM Punk is gone and that Collision is likely to become just another version of Dynamite - which is what Rampage was/is - and that it will not have that different "flavor" that set it apart. 

That being said, pro-wrestling hasn't been run "like the outlaws days" in at least 25 years and the rosters of today are not the rosters of 25 years ago, let alone 35. CM Punk was at the Cauliflower Alley convention and mentioned that Harley Race, Roddy Piper, and Dusty Rhodes all loved him - and that's great and wonderful - but that type of "old school respect" is from guys who worked in an era where being legitimately tough was a prerequisite, where you had to personally iron out contracts and deal with back-stabbing promoters and back-stabbing colleagues, navigate a culture that was filled with sharks and legit criminals.

I know the wrestling business isn't perfect in 2023, there are still horrendous things happening (the #MeToo stuff made that abundantly clear), but its really romanticizing the past to say that things were better when punishments were doled out by "the boys" and might include sodomy, being forced to do torturous exercises at the risk of injury, or having your personality property defecated on because you forgot to shake someone's hand or were eating chicken in the locker room.

CM Punk physically assaulting somebody for letting an errant "shoot" comment out on a YouTube pre-show is 100% uncalled for, hard ass, thin-skinned bullshit. I'm not saying "violence is never the answer." I'm all about punching Nazis and bigots and actual real-life villains who routinely support and defend fire-bombing churches and racial genocide, but I don't think a workplace conflict over whether or not someone should use real glass for a wrestling match quite measures up. I don't know about you, but I don't come to blows with my co-workers when they use my coffee mug without permission. CM Punk resorted to physical violence over a workplace spat because (a) he wants to show he's a tough guy, (b) he knows Jungle Jack Perry is not a tough guy, and (c) he seemingly feels like any slight against him needs to be handled through physical violence. 

And then supposedly threatening (verbally, gesturally, or by lunging at) your boss - well, c'mon now, that's just not going to fly in the corporate wrestling world. A world that CM Punk has existed in and knows the rules of for a long, long time and a world that CM Punk has prospered in financially and, at times, creatively. When he's been able to. Which he seemingly can't anymore.

Yet there are still people who think CM Punk, who clearly has serious anger management issues, should somehow still have a job despite his serious anger management issues being a recurring problem that lead to suspensions, investigations, bad press, lawsuits, having to re-book events, etc. Like, I get it, I really enjoy CM Punk too as an on-screen character, but you have to be being willfully obtuse to think CM Punk is somehow owed any more chances or was not being an overly aggressive asshole for physically attacking a 26-year old midcarder for showing bad judgment on a YouTube preshow. 

That to me makes CM Punk look like a child. What the Bucks (who I honestly don't even really like) did? That's just good heel crowd work.

[MoS]

On 9/4/2023 at 8:31 PM, DMJ said:

I watched the video and I'm not sure that less than 10 untelevised seconds of holding his arms up and circling the ring 1.5 times is that big a deal. Hell, I like the Young Bucks much better as heels (if they're going to be on TV at all, which I'm kinda indifferent about generally) and, in Chicago, that's what they're going to be. Might as well lean into it. The fans in attendance want to engage in this sort of stuff. I sure as hell loved chanting "You Screwed Bret" at Earl Hebner and Shawn Michaels for years after 97' and, in Canada, Shawn sure as shit - even after becoming born again - still didn't seem to mind getting that heat. (And Shawn, post-return, may not have been an executive, but he certainly had some stroke.)
 

Yeah I mean, we all loved Punk for leaning into the boos upon his return - and of course, Shawn after Montreal as well, as you said. Only fair to be consistent and have the same energy for the Bucks 

[KawadaSmile]

For someone who was doing Hogan spots, Punk sure did work himself into a shoot

[Sweet Brown Koko]

26 minutes ago, DMJ said:

I watched the video and I'm not sure that less than 10 untelevised seconds of holding his arms up and circling the ring 1.5 times is that big a deal. Hell, I like the Young Bucks much better as heels (if they're going to be on TV at all, which I'm kinda indifferent about generally) and, in Chicago, that's what they're going to be. Might as well lean into it. The fans in attendance want to engage in this sort of stuff. I sure as hell loved chanting "You Screwed Bret" at Earl Hebner and Shawn Michaels for years after 97' and, in Canada, Shawn sure as shit - even after becoming born again - still didn't seem to mind getting that heat. (And Shawn, post-return, may not have been an executive, but he certainly had some stroke.)

But I'll refrain from the what-aboutism and say this...

I'm with many here and am definitely bummed that CM Punk is gone and that Collision is likely to become just another version of Dynamite - which is what Rampage was/is - and that it will not have that different "flavor" that set it apart. 

That being said, pro-wrestling hasn't been run "like the outlaws days" in at least 25 years and the rosters of today are not the rosters of 25 years ago, let alone 35. CM Punk was at the Cauliflower Alley convention and mentioned that Harley Race, Roddy Piper, and Dusty Rhodes all loved him - and that's great and wonderful - but that type of "old school respect" is from guys who worked in an era where being legitimately tough was a prerequisite, where you had to personally iron out contracts and deal with back-stabbing promoters and back-stabbing colleagues, navigate a culture that was filled with sharks and legit criminals.

I know the wrestling business isn't perfect in 2023, there are still horrendous things happening (the #MeToo stuff made that abundantly clear), but its really romanticizing the past to say that things were better when punishments were doled out by "the boys" and might include sodomy, being forced to do torturous exercises at the risk of injury, or having your personality property defecated on because you forgot to shake someone's hand or were eating chicken in the locker room.

CM Punk physically assaulting somebody for letting an errant "shoot" comment out on a YouTube pre-show is 100% uncalled for, hard ass, thin-skinned bullshit. I'm not saying "violence is never the answer." I'm all about punching Nazis and bigots and actual real-life villains who routinely support and defend fire-bombing churches and racial genocide, but I don't think a workplace conflict over whether or not someone should use real glass for a wrestling match quite measures up. I don't know about you, but I don't come to blows with my co-workers when they use my coffee mug without permission. CM Punk resorted to physical violence over a workplace spat because (a) he wants to show he's a tough guy, (b) he knows Jungle Jack Perry is not a tough guy, and (c) he seemingly feels like any slight against him needs to be handled through physical violence. 

And then supposedly threatening (verbally, gesturally, or by lunging at) your boss - well, c'mon now, that's just not going to fly in the corporate wrestling world. A world that CM Punk has existed in and knows the rules of for a long, long time and a world that CM Punk has prospered in financially and, at times, creatively. When he's been able to. Which he seemingly can't anymore.

Yet there are still people who think CM Punk, who clearly has serious anger management issues, should somehow still have a job despite his serious anger management issues being a recurring problem that lead to suspensions, investigations, bad press, lawsuits, having to re-book events, etc. Like, I get it, I really enjoy CM Punk too as an on-screen character, but you have to be being willfully obtuse to think CM Punk is somehow owed any more chances or was not being an overly aggressive asshole for physically attacking a 26-year old midcarder for showing bad judgment on a YouTube preshow. 

That to me makes CM Punk look like a child. What the Bucks (who I honestly don't even really like) did? That's just good heel crowd work.

I agree with everything you said except the Bucks part. IMO a HUGE reason that this got as far as it did is because Tony refuses to do anything to The Bucks. I wholeheartedly agree that Punk never should have responded the way he did at all in any of those situations. I also believe that Punk expressed HIS workplace concerns to Tony and felt nothing was being done about it. Again, I don’t condone anything that Punk said/did about those things but Tony is/was being too much of a fanboy.

He did the right thing with Punk and Perry but he should strip the Bucks of their EVP titles and suspend them for a week for that lap stunt. It could easily be seen as trolling and ALL of this should just end.

[The Man in Blak]

The Bucks are better as heels and, frankly, they’ve been so ice cold for the last couple of years that they desperately needed this, so I get it. I’m just not interested in watching it.

[Embrodak]

Whether it’s “romanticizing the past” or not, I do think it’s safe to say that a more informal, sometimes physical culture of norms enforcement selected for more interesting kinds of guys to be on my television screen. Whether the average workrate today is better or worse than back in the day is a complicated question, but whether the average wrestler has less personality and magnetism really is not, imo. One reason Punk’s pissy attitude doesn’t bug me or poison his on-screen attempts to be a good guy for me is that it’s at least a *flavor* of some description, which is more than I can say for most performers today. I’m from the suburbs of Chicago, I’ve known guys like Punk that have a chip on their shoulder and weirdly antiquated yet bespoke notions of virtue and interpersonal honor, so nothing he does backstage really clashes with anything he does in-ring because I know that that kind of guy has all of that good and bad bottled up in them, and the fact that it can go in any direction at any moment is genuinely exciting and compelling. The problem of bloodlessness is not particular or unique to wrestlers, corporate homogenization and HR primacy come for everyone these days, but it’s certainly more noticeable there.

[El-P]

Even the United Center crowd doesn't give a fuck anymore and celebrated Hangman, Kenny and even the Young Bucks, for a large part of them. That ship has sailed and sunk. That horse had left the barn and died on the sidewalks. 

[strobogo]

2 hours ago, KawadaSmile said:

Christopher Daniels still being employed amidst all this despite being woeful at his job is the most glaring part of the story.

I don't think he needs to be fired, but he's definitely not right for that position despite seeming like he'd be pretty much perfect for it.

[El-P]

Also, I wonder if CM Punk is gonna remain friends with FTR after he just witnessed them do a fucking superkick party spot alongside the Bucks. That alone probably almost killed Corny too. Yeah, fun times were had by all.

[WingedEagle]

12 minutes ago, El-P said:

Also, I wonder if CM Punk is gonna remain friends with FTR after he just witnessed them do a fucking superkick party spot alongside the Bucks. That alone probably almost killed Corny too. Yeah, fun times were had by all.

This should read like some low effort satire, but with everything we've seen its probably a completely legitimate question.

[Embrodak]

I think it’s also a legitimate question if FTR being roped into a super kick party spot was a cheeky twist of the knife on CM Punk, in and of itself. (Why anybody would want to do or watch such a thing is a separate question.)

[El-P]

6 minutes ago, WingedEagle said:

This should read like some low effort satire, but with everything we've seen its probably a completely legitimate question.

The first part is actually halfway serious. When I watched the match and FTR and the Bucks (who by the way, obviously think A LOT of each others, despite what people projecting their own little pro-wrestling insecurities into believe) doing those spots together, I thought about that in a very serious way (and it did crack me up too). 

The latter part is obviously a joke, I don't wish any harm to good ol' Corny, although he's an irrelevant old fart.

[El-P]

And really, considering how the crowd reacted as a whole, Punk probably hates Chicago as a whole too, really... I mean, a "Cry me a river" chant to drown his name...

[KawadaSmile]

Based on CM Punk's track record, it wouldn't surprise me if he saw FTR being involved in a superkick party as some sort of personal slight. That whole story of how he severed ties with Hornswoggle was always the weirdest damn thing.

[NintendoLogic]

I wonder if Punk is still bound by the NDA he signed regarding Brawl Out or if he had to sign a new one as part of a severance agreement. If so, it's questionable whether it would hold up in court. The NLRB recently ruled that overly-broad NDAs are unlawful, and it's not like what happened during a backstage fight can be classified as a trade secret. In other words, he might be going full scorched-earth pretty soon.

[WingedEagle]

2 hours ago, El-P said:

And really, considering how the crowd reacted as a whole, Punk probably hates Chicago as a whole too, really... I mean, a "Cry me a river" chant to drown his name...

He must hate EVERYONE.  Cash can cross his arms all he wants but as you noted they're there to get along, get paid and build out a legacy that seemingly is very important to them.  But that's something almost all wrestlers -- hell, all people -- do every single da: go to work, do their jobs and go about their lives liking some people, disliking others and finding ways to make things easier rather than more difficult.  Almost all, but not all.  Amazing.  Make this man the subject of a college psych class.

[flyonthewall2983]

This picks at so much of history that’s gone before but also just the psychological underpinnings alone of everything going on in both companies, in a year in which the business’ most horrific tragedy will be on the big screen and on a day 28 years after things really began to change, it’s almost funny if it weren’t so sad too.

[El-P]

There's something that cannot be overstated too about that little CM Punk comeback thingy. He became the cult hero of a generation in 2011 because he stood as the voice of hardcore wrestling fans tired of WWE's sterile product and Cenamania running wild. He embodied the spirit of the indie scene, of why it was not only cool but right to do things different. That's why he caught on as much as he did and why his name was chanted as a symbol of refuse at WWE shows for years when fans did not accept what the company was forcing them to gobble up. He was the outcast, the alternative.

Fast forward in 2021. An entire company was built out of the spirit of the indies, of a will to build an alternative to WWE's product (which by then was already very different from what it was in 2011, but more on that later). The Elite had been the embodiement of that spirit, of why it was cool and also right to be different and do things another way, and AEW was built from that will to change, but not from within the WWE system, because everything aligned at the right time. When CM Punk gets in, with 7 years off the business to boot, people may remember him as "The Pipe bomb guy", but it's been 10 years since that time. Now he's coming as the former WWE superstar. He's representing the establishment (which is also why his hardcore fanbase has the reactionary if not plain outdated discourse they have) and he's looking down at everything his old self was supposed to represent 10 years before. That is, if he was sincere, which is another issue. The business had effectively passed him by, because the voice he carried in 2011 was useless now. It was empty. But maybe it was always empty.

The cherry on the cake being the fact that at the very same time, another guy came into the company, a guy who also represented the spirit of the indies and a different way of looking, working and thinking. Only he was not performative about it, he just, well, made you feel it through his work. And HE actually made it to the very top of the WWE, he actually got put over by Trip at Mania. And he changed the way WWE looked at talent (well, not totally, as showed by the Sami Zayn booking this year, but still). And he did not came as "The guy who knows it all because he's a former WWE star". He did not had to make grand lectures about "everything he does is a love letter to professional wrestling". He just came in, worked, put people over, had terrific matches, probably the best stint of his entire career (which was supposed to be over years before, but not because he quit over not getting what he wanted, but because his body betrayed him), and had nothing bad to say about the people he worked with. Yeah, that Danielson fellow. 

Be wary of the people who like to say they are this and that all the time. They usually are the worst. I'd rather trust the ironics and the silents. And the true humbles. 

[Embrodak]

You love taking Lefty political terms and inaptly applying them to wrestling, ya scamp. Indie spotfests are dialectical, thinking wrestling is better when it does more with less and has some psychology is reactionary, what will come next?