ROH scaling back

[sek69]

How much did they lose running those vanity shows in Japan?

 

My first thought when reading about ROH cutbacks was that they blew a retarded amount of money on those Japan shows and now when the crunch hits they can blame it on PPV not working out.

 

 

I still don't get how PPV was supposed to work for them anyway. The only people aware they even had any PPV shows were people who read the WON and/or regularly attend ROH events. Like it was mentioned earlier, there's no way someone's going to just browse the In Demand website or their cable/satellite menus looking for something they can blow $14.95 on.

[Ryan Faulconer]

I can see a person catching a show on PPV and becoming a fan. The problem is that I for example would have no exposure to its availability outside of word of mouth.

I downloaded the PPV everybody was talking about. Driven? Anyway, made me realize I was right when I stopped watching ROH.

 

None of this outside of the first few sentences discussing the Driven PPV is directed at you specially, Grimmas.

 

I loved a few matches on it. Danielson/McGuinness and the opener were just so much fun. The opener lacked the zany gimmicks of the MPro/Dragon Gate six mans, outside of Delirious, but the action was up there. The announcing is a trillion times better than it was in the early years too and they actually book heels and babyfaces. Whoever compared it to Mid South over here isn't that far off. I mean, its a different era but the pretentiousness is certainly there along with a unified vision of what they want their promotion to be. It is certainly conscious of how it presents wrestling, perhaps to the point of obsessing over it - much like the Watts territory. They can't control the chanting or collector-crazy-fanbase but it does everything else that Mid South/UWF tried in order to present itself as a "better world" than what we see in the major TV wrestling promotions - whether it was the WWF of twenty five years ago or WWE of today.

 

I've given up on following all of the promotions out there. ROH is my wrestling of choice lately. For the most part I don't care about their backroom dealings or failure at growing their fanbase with PPV. Its alive and putting out shows that seem to be enjoyed by many in this subculture of the web. That used to be enough to justify a promotion's quality.

[ohtani's jacket]

I don't see how ROH can't run a spot show in Tokyo... They have TV, they're covered in whatever mags are left and they have NOAH's backing. It shouldn't be that difficult.

[WrestlingPower]

I've been thinking they need to cut back for a while just to narrow the focus on the product, regardless of financials. I bet they have more people on a show than a WWF house show these days. With all the factions, several of which have one or two seconds at ringside that don't even wrestle, there's lots of people drawing a check off a live event. I think people are overreacting a bit though, there probably won't be more than a couple guys cut completely, it sounds like they are just rotating bookings around with some of the under & mid-card guys.

 

I still think the PPVs are a good idea as long as they aren't putting up too much money to have them air. I don't think it will increase the audience base very much, and it obviously hasn't, but I think it should be somewhat successful at getting more money out of those that already follow the product at some level. I like the convenience of being able to order a somewhat up-to-date show right on my own TV. I know in my case at least I only buy 3-4 DVDs directly from them each year so adding 6 PPVs to the mix is more than doubling the $ they would normally get from me.

[Bix]

From various C&P sites crediting the newest WON:

 

Ring of Honor pay-per-views were recently pulled from airing in Canada because buys were practically non-existant. One of the major cable carriers only had three dozen (36) PPV buys for a recent show. In comparison, TNA has had as low as a few hundred PPV buys for their most recent shows. WWE and UFC are pretty much the only companies to do any PPV business in Canada these days. Furthermore, one person posted a new thread on this news on the official Ring of Honor message board, and was swiftly banned. The thread was deleted as well.

[MikeCampbell]

36 buys. Holy shit, that's gotta be tough on the ego. Bix, has there been any word on why it's that low? Poor distribution? Something with the exchange rate?

[sek69]

36 buys. Holy shit, that's gotta be tough on the ego. Bix, has there been any word on why it's that low? Poor distribution? Something with the exchange rate?

 

I'd wager probably because no one would know there was a PPV unless they were at a ROH show, and as far as I'm aware they don't run in Canada.

 

Hell, that 36 buys is probably equal to the number of Canadians that go to the ROH boards.

[The Thread Killer]

Ring of Honor has a weekly two hour television show which runs opposite RAW here in Canada. It's on The Fight Network, and it's re-run several times during the week. Their PPV's were getting special 30 minute preview hype slots on The Fight Network as well. I know The Fight Network is a specialty channel, but ROH and their PPV's get plenty of hype on that channel. ROH has never run a live event in Canada, but I do believe that they got a fair contingent of Canadian fans when they ran shows in Buffalo. It's odd that they haven't tried to run Toronto since they have television here.

 

The exchange rate is now pretty much at par, give or take. In fact, at one point recently the Canadian dollar was worth more than the U.S. buck, but it doesn't matter...when you order from Viewers Choice Canada you pay in Canadian funds. So the point is, they got plenty of hype on cable, and they have weekly television too. They run commercials for the PPV's on The Fight Network as well. People just didn't care.

[Guest *FH*]

Furthermore, one person posted a new thread on this news on the official Ring of Honor message board, and was swiftly banned. The thread was deleted as well.

Now THAT is kayfabe.

[anarchistxx]

Ironic, from the company that loves to be 'honest' to its loyal fanbase.

 

Not surprised though, I got banned from their board a few years back for telling Gabe FIP wasn't worth $20 a disc.

[MikeCampbell]

I got banned because I didn't think that bringing in Misawa was a good idea. My own personal theory about Gabe is that he sees himself as being a modern Paul Heyman. And thus, doesn't think fans should be questioning his booking or direction of the company. Because back in the days of the old ECW, fans never would have done that to Paul.

[tomk]

Purpose of ROH board is to create a "virtual community" of fans not one of critics.

[Jingus]

Which of course makes the dubious arguement that "true fans" of a product will love every second of it 100%, and never once feel that the show could've been better in any way. We've all seen various official promotions' message boards have censorship problems like these. My favorite example was on the Glory board, which is entirely devoted to women's wrestling and entirely populated by midnight chokers. The esteemable Larry Goodman posted a negative (and accurate) review of a Women's Extreme Wrestling show, and the rest of the board went haywire over it because they were only supposed to be there to "support" the ladies, and any sort of criticism was verboten.

[MikeCampbell]

It's sad, but true. A lot of people don't seem to be able to grasp the notion that you can criticise something, while still liking it.

[Cox]

The WON Booker of the Year for the past three years apparently forgets his own storylines.

 

Hello everyone,

Please take some time and read this and make sure all the points sink in. It will make this a better company for all of us.

 

You will all be hearing from me in the next week or so with a bunch of notes about upcoming direction. Here are some quick thoughts on how we can all pull together as a team and improve the shows. I am going to keep repeating these things until they become second nature. I believe these things will help us tighten up our shows and in turn everyone will have a better and easier chance to get over. I think our shows are too long now and we are burning out our crowd. We are leaving them tired after the show instead of satisfied, but wanting more. I think that just by tightening up a few areas we can eliminate this and make the people satisfied, but hungry for more and then hopefully buying more live event tickets.

 

1) STAY IN YOUR TIME, STAY IN YOUR TIME, STAY IN YOUR TIME. The simple fact is that our shows run much smoother and have the right peaks and valleys and the crowd stays strong until the end if everyone stays in their time. Now you might think to yourself "what's the big deal if I go 1-2 minutes over." Well add it up. Lets say there are 8 matches, 6 go over by an average of 90 seconds (and this is on the low end of some of our shows as far as matches going over). Well that's nine minutes of nothing but wrestling added to the show. This means the people are really seeing an extra match by the time the main event goes on. We are simply giving them way too much when matches go over. If this is a problem with ref cues, let me know so we can correct it.

 

2) Stay on me about angles and promo time. I have to admit that I have done a poor job on some things lately, one of which is following up on angles on a consistent show-to-show basis. If you were in a big angle on one show and then you see there is nothing following up on it the next weekend, get on me about at least doing a promo on it or something. Stay on me about "what is going on next" or "what is going on this weekend with that angle we did last show" so that nothing falls to the wayside. Also, I have talked to some of you and been approached by some of you about doing promos and stuff. So far no one has really followed up with me. Please stay on me about this. Demand your promo time and that your storylines are adequately followed up on. I will get with you in the next week or so and then you will have a better idea of your direction, which will make it easier for you to come to me with ideas. I know this falls in my hands to improve and I am working on it. Just stay on me about it.

 

3) Another place we lose time is ring entrances, the time between the final ring entrance and the opening bell and then postmatch. Don't take a lot of time with these things. Unless your ring entrance has a special spot like the people yelling "The Final Countdown" during Bryan's entrance then do your thing, but don't take more time than needed. The main place I'd like to cut down on time is when the final ring entrance song ends and the opening bell rings. If every match takes 90 seconds here that can add another 10 minutes or so to the show. Now add that to the 9 minutes that all the matches went over and we've added 19 unnecessary minutes to the show. This is where the crowds are getting burned out. Finally, post match. If you are over get your hand raised, strike your post and get out while the crowd is still hot and hungry to see more of you. If you are under sell what you need to or better yet sell to the back or let yourself get carried to the back quickly if you took something big. Let the winner have the spotlight and comeback ready to fight another day. Attention students/graduates, you need to be there quick to help the guy that went under if he needs to be carried to the back. Now if we can take off a minute from each postmatch which is 7 minutes and add that to the 19 we lose on people going over/ring entrances & prematch and now we have shaved 26 minutes off the show and we are having nice 3 hour shows into 3 1/2 hour marathons.

 

Also, Bobby, Wayne, Mary, Refs- Lets cut the time in between matches way down. I know the camera guys need time in between certain matches to switch tapes, but they do this pretty quickly. In NOAH they have the music for the next match playing like 10-20 seconds after the guy is through the curtain from the previous match. What do we need to do to cut down on this time between matches? We can easily shave another 3-5 minutes here.

 

4) Don't swear. There is more and more swearing sneaking its way back into things. I know I have threatened fines in the past and haven't followed through, but I'm really thinking it'll be the only way to finally eliminate swearing.

 

5) One thing I would like to see everyone doing is cutting promos on your way to the back postmatch, especially if you go over. Cameraman Jimmy is usually in your face with the floor camera on your way back down the aisle and this is usually dead time on the DVD. Take this 30 seconds and cut a quick promo into the camera that gets people interested in what you are doing in the future. For instance, lets say you are in a feud with Austin Aries. On your way to the back just hit a line like "That's a message to you Austin Aries, I want a match soon." A prime example of this is on the Man Up PPV. Claudio and Nigel both cut promos in the aisle way on their way to the back. They each ended up with extra airtime because the promos were short and to the point and gave their character easy to follow direction into the future. Aries & Steen are also good examples on recent DVDs.

 

Anyway, thanks for reading all this. Let me know your thoughts. I have been getting some good work done and will be in contact in the next week or so with direction.

 

Thank you,

Gabe

I don't know how a guy manages to come off as both condescending and incompetent at the same time, but there ya go.

[S.L.L.]

For some reason, it's the swearing line that's the most amusing to me. "I've told you guys before to stop swearing, or there would be consequences. Well, you didn't, and there weren't, but I'm now considering possibly following up on them maybe. So don't do it, or else there may or may not be some kind of fine or punishment, unless of course I just back down like I did last time. Who can be sure. I can't even keep all these darn angles straight. C'mon guys, cut me some slack! I'm the best booker in wrestling!"

[WrestlingPower]

For such a Heyman disciple the "no swearing allowed" is kind of odd but I don't mind it. I really don't think it's that big a deal, it's not like guys are dropping 10 F-bombs on the house mic.

 

I didn't think this came off condescending at all but I did think he treaded the line between a "best booker" admitting he has areas to improve in and seeming like he can't keep it all straight.

[Bix]

The previous attempt at "no swearing" had been reported in the WON as part of an attempt at making the shows more family friendly while attempting to draw more kids/families.

[Ryan Faulconer]

I'm a fan of the promotion right now and even I think that kind memo reveals more than one issue which isn't strictly related to "ROH being ROH". This is what happens when a promotion that kind of started as an intentional parody of a wrestling promotion ends up being an actual wrestling promotion. I don't know if that other owner or the cameraman had more experience running wrestling companies but it looks like they need more than just the guy who listened to Heyman a lot and then handed out programs before events.

 

Gabe probably feels overworked while trying to run a company like Heyman apparently did. Its my understanding that Heyman basically ran everything himself with help from Dreamer (IIRC). Heyman had a decade or so in the business wearing several different hats before he had his own "bigger" small promotion in ECW. ROH needs a veteran booker or co-booker or some other older talent. Rey Mysterio Jr. has had more awesome/cool/kewl/MOTYCs than almost anyone and he never had to swear to get his point across in an interview.

 

Someone has to explain to the "kids" that the kind of language ROH wrestlers apparently use and/or the style of matches that they do won't make you a veteran in the business. It will probably turn you into Nick Mondo and Mikey Whipreck though. Not that either of them swore much, if at all, but they gave too much of their bodies to entertain the fickle mush heads who make up the fanbase for ECW and now ROH.

 

The swearing thing is something that they can't control without some kind of parental figure. Someone has to tell them that they will never make more than they do in ROH by swearing during promos. That shit just isn't fucking acceptable in the real world and in front of a family audience. They could fine guys but how much does a fine take out of an already small payday? I actually don't notice a lot of swearing from the wrestlers themselves on the shows. Its the fans that make the promotion non-family friendly.

 

They had some announcement before an event in the last year or so to keep the swearing to a minimum. What do the fans do? Why, they swear even more to show hardcore they are. They might also swear because that's the only way they can converse in whatever freak subculture they think they are associating with. They think swearing is cool. They think ROH is cool. They probably aren't all that cool themselves. Check out all the censored words on the ROH forums. I mean, someone like Phil or Dean swears a lot at times in their reviews but at least people read what they write and it is part of their "style".

[Resident Evil]

I actually don't notice a lot of swearing from the wrestlers themselves on the shows. Its the fans that make the promotion non-family friendly.

 

They had some announcement before an event in the last year or so to keep the swearing to a minimum. What do the fans do? Why, they swear even more to show hardcore they are. They might also swear because that's the only way they can converse in whatever freak subculture they think they are associating with. They think swearing is cool. They think ROH is cool. They probably aren't all that cool themselves. Check out all the censored words on the ROH forums. I mean, someone like Phil or Dean swears a lot at times in their reviews but at least people read what they write and it is part of their "style".

So ROH fans are just like the 1998/99 Attitude era fans? How ironic.

 

I think ROH's biggest problem is the problem any other small wrestling organization faces. They simply have to work an uphill battle against organizations that are already rooted on the top of the hill.

[tomk]

I should point out that Steve Corino is really really good at non-swearing. As more than once been to a show wheere he has started working a profanity laced promo gotten a response from audience member of "hey there are kids here" and then shifted to not cursing while never breaking character ( a character of hateable heel who doesn't care what the fans think). It's impressed me both times I've seen it happen.

[Bix]

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Wrestling/2008/02/19/4860418.html

 

Sapolsky confirmed that the pay per views will continue for the foreseeable future

Why?

[S.L.L.]

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Wrestling/2008/02/19/4860418.html

 

Sapolsky confirmed that the pay per views will continue for the foreseeable future

Why?

 

Because he's dumb?

[Al]

It's low overhead. Does it really cost RoH anything to put tapes of the shows on Pay Per View? Seriously, right now my cable company's three InDemand channels are running two airings of some Howard Stern special and something called the "Vegas Amateur Strip-Off." Ring of Honor probably isn't doing much, but does it do harm to be on there at all? I doubt it.

[Guest The 3H's]

I wonder how they got TNA to let the Briscoes come in for the April dates.