The interesting Dave Meltzer posts thread

[Marty]

Men are programmed to be with multiple women. Women are programmed to be with the top male they can find.

Any sources, studies, links, etc. to back this up?

 

I mean, I think that's a completely stupid and, as Herodes said, incredibly creepy statement, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and see if you can prove yourself.

[Resident Evil]

Yep, I'm definitely guessing you have had very little contact with women if you view them as objects who are "programmed to get the best seed". One of the creepiest posts I've read on the net, which is saying something.

 

It sounds like you need to put down whatever oddball literature you are reading and get out there and get some life experience.

So, for the record let me confirm this. People here really do not think that women are biologically programmed to look for the best man that will give their babies the best chance of survival and prospering?

 

Do people here think than men are not programmed to go after the most beautiful women that will raise the healthiest children? As men, we all know we prefere the hottest women. Why do you think that is than?

 

Do people really think women aren't bioligically progammed to want strong males for their offspring? Honostly???? Do nerds get all the women now? Do Rock stars get no women?

[El-P]

Do nerds get all the women now?

Well, from my experience, yeah. Not all of them, but some of them. Good looking too.

[Resident Evil]

Do nerds get all the women now?

Well, from my experience, yeah. Not all of them, but some of them. Good looking too.

 

Yes they can BUT only if they display some certain traits in their personality. Overall nerds tend to have a lot of traits that repel women naturally which is why they have a tough time with women.

[Herodes]

Anyone who reduces the complexity and diversity of human relationships to such offensively simplistic terms, and views women as homogeneously programmed automatons is clearly bordering on sociopathic tendencies. Someone who wants to believe life operates by following a ridiculously limited template clearly needs more experience and interaction with human beings and society at large rather than living in an insulated hunter/gatherer fantasy world.

 

Trying to link this in to be more on-topic, as a disturbing sociological study of wrestling obsession, some fans clearly enclose themselves in a wrestling bubble with their tapes and DVDs substituting for reality, where comically-exaggerated physiques and testosterone and chemically-fueled hyper-masculinity represent societal male norms for the wrestling obsessive, and vapid 'programmed' whores who exist to be subservient to the 'alpha male' becomes a feminine norm in this fantasy world. Thus the wrestling obsessive becomes increasingly attracted to this unattainable, idealized notion of the powerful alpha male to whom they aspire.

 

It's worrying if you can't separate the hyper-reality of that wrestling world from the real world.

[El-P]

That.

 

Plus I reiterate my question. What about gays and lesbians ? Does that mean they are "not normal" by these bizarre, creepy standarts ? Because they sure as hell don't look for the alpha male that will provide the healthier seed or the best child-bearing hips woman.

[Resident Evil]

That.

 

Plus I reiterate my question. What about gays and lesbians ? Does that mean they are "not normal" by these bizarre, creepy standarts ? Because they sure as hell don't look for the alpha male that will provide the healthier seed or the best child-bearing hips woman.

That is a whole another topic but I'm not going to get into that. You'd love the answers though.

 

 

Guys, what I'm saying is truth. I can tell you what makes a woman fall in love and what makes her fall out. What makes her cheat and what makes her loyal and happy. Why strippers are looked down upon. I understand just about every contradiction (at first glance) or puzzling aspect there is about women and why those contradictions actually makes sense. I can tell you the impact social conditioning has on all of this.

 

I can even explain the actions of the males as well. Stuff people don't really know conciously. Message boards in particular including this one are fascinating to view.

 

As far as women goes, I love them even though I know a couple of truths that are very hard for me to accept. On the opposite of the coin, I know the absolute thrill it is to have a women call you her hero. I have been flat out told by multiple women that I can have any women fall in love with me. I have been accused of being a ladies man several times. I have been given gifts, offered free rent and vacation time for my whole family. I have been told (in more provacative words) by women who pride themselves on being not easy that I can seduce any woman. Sometimes, I actually have to hold back. Others can do this too. I'm out of here now though. I don't think by the way people are talking that they are open enough to discuss this. If that was tough, than the other things I know might be too much of a burden to take on. I have to go help someone now who is going through a difficult time so I won't be around for awhile. In a rush.

[El-P]

H.O.L.Y. S.H.I.T.

[El-P]

I dunno why, but this gave me the urge to post these great lyrics from a great Momus song... Not really relevant I guess, but who doesn't love Momus ?

 

I love women but I'm thinking of giving in

I love women but what's the point of arguing

With the men from boarding schools and building sites

Who've told me I'm a homosexual all my life

 

One stop past Embankment and the coughs begin

Hell hath no fury like an insecure Englishman

You don't need psychoanalysts to translate this

'There is an open homosexual in our midst'

 

'The Homosexual' they call me

It's all the same to me

That spectre they projected I will now pretend to be

Since their neurosis is what passes for normality

It's okay with me if I'm queer

Since their tone-deafness is called the love of music

I won't disabuse them

I'll make love with their women

I'll make them sing notes of pleasure

Their husbands will never hear

 

I love women but I take them by surprise

Pretending absolute indifference to their breasts and thighs

Like their hairdressers and dressmakers I hear confessionals

Reserved for homosexual professionals

 

As I put their feet in stirrups with my limp wrist

(A trick I learned from a homosexual gynaecologist)

I recall the words my first girlfriend ended our first date with

"I feel privileged you chose me to go straight with"

 

'The Homosexual' they call me

It's all the same to me

That spectre they projected I will now pretend to be

Since their neurosis is what passes for normality

It's okay with me if I'm queer

Since their tone-deafness is called the love of music

I won't disabuse them

I'll make love with their women

I'll make them sing notes of pleasure

Their husbands will never hear

 

You who called me shirt-lifter in Chemistry class

You who sniggered "look out for your arse"

Now your women wash your shirts, now your kids are born, baby, look out for your horns

 

You who called me teapot, who plagued me with your bile

Guess who I've got coming to the boil

Why not grab the nettle I'll settle for being the kettle if you're the pot

I take my tea like my revenge: sweet and hot

 

'The Homosexual' they call me

It's all the same to me

That spectre they projected I will now pretend to be

Since their neurosis is what passes for normality

It's okay with me if I'm queer

Since their tone-deafness is called the love of music

I won't disabuse them

I'll make love with their women

I'll make them sing notes of pleasure

Their husbands will never hear

 

'The Homosexual' you call me

It's all the same to me

That spectre you projected I will now pretend to be

Since your neurosis is what passes for normality

It's okay with me if I'm queer

Since your tone-deafness is called the love of music

I won't disabuse you

I'll make love with your women

I'll make them sing notes of pleasure

That you will never hear

Never in a million years

No fucking fear

[S.L.L.]

Men are programmed to be with multiple women. Women are programmed to be with the top male they can find. That's why there's a double standard.

OK, this is something you will very, very, very rarely hear me say. In fact, it's borderline physically painful for me to say it. But...in the interest of intellectual honesty and my apparent desire to be the autism-spectrum Gallant to ResidentEvil's autism-spectrum Goofus...if we assume that what Res is saying is that this is the most basic, primal foundation for human mating decision-making, and that all subsequent standards (double or otherwise) about gender, sexuality, and reproduction evolved from this basic principle...then he's right. I know, it's ResidentEvil. It's really easy and really tempting to dismiss everything he says out of hand. But any anthropology textbook - and I've been through a few - will tell you he's right, if we assume the conditions stated above.

 

Of course, that's the most primal, basic approach to human sexuality that we had back at the dawn of our species. We've had a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooong time to refine our technique. Women have had time to embrace ideas of sexual liberation. Men have had time to embrace moral ideals like "adultery is bad". LGBT identities sprung up. Asexuals sprung up. Couples who don't want to have kids sprung up. We can overrule caveman-era instincts without a whole lot of trouble. Yes, you'll always find some evidence of this original thought - the Don Juan/slut double standard, standards of beauty typically being based upon qualities that would make for an ideal mate, etc. - but it's evolved and changed just as much as any other aspect of our lives. "Programming" is a really bad way to describe it, because a computer can't override it's programming. This is something that's there, but that we can override pretty easily.

 

And as long as we're talking about primal sexual concerns, I notice Res failed to mention the ones that led to the development of monogamy, which is pretty significant here. Oh sure, men wanted to reproduce, and the easiest way to do that was to sleep around. But what good is that if your offspring dies? That completely defeats the purpose of reproduction. Eventually, some men wised up. They realized that if they didn't just fuck a girl and walk away to find another girl to fuck, but actually stuck around, they could protect and provide for their child, thus making sure they grew up to reproduce and continue the family line ad infinitum. It cut down on quantity, I grant you, but if your kids all die because you're too busy making more kids to help care for the ones you already made, what was the point of reproducing in the first place? I mean, yeah, if you throw enough of your genetic material against the wall, some of it will stick, but even early on, guys realized there was another way to go about things.

 

Did you ever hear the old joke of how to figure out how many women a guy has been with and how many guys a women has been with? For the guyI believe you divide by 3 to find the right number and for the women I believe you multiply by 3.

Res, that's not a joke. That's a math equation.

 

Plus I reiterate my question. What about gays and lesbians ? Does that mean they are "not normal" by these bizarre, creepy standarts ? Because they sure as hell don't look for the alpha male that will provide the healthier seed or the best child-bearing hips woman.

Res won't answer, and I'm kinda terrified by what his answer would be. But as long as you're asking, and as long as I'm throwing down with the anthropology, my own thoughts are the same as George Carlin's thoughts when he did his bit about "gay lib" way back when. People were asking (and still ask) "is it normal, and is it natural," and George concluded that it was probably normal but not natural, as nature did not presuppose it, but if it feels good and hurts no one, than it can't be that abnormal. As to what they're looking for, they probably are looking for "the healthier seed". It's just that they're not looking for it for those reasons. They're looking for it because that's the basis of any given society's standard of beauty, and they probably want to sleep with attractive people regardless of whether or not they're going to reproduce with them. Although determining differences in standards of beauty between gay and straight people might make for an interesting sociology experiment, now that I think about it. Still, my general understanding was that gay standards of beauty were pretty much the same as those of the general population, which is based on suitability as a mate.

 

Guys, what I'm saying is truth.

Well, it was truth. Some of it, anyway. But you're going off the deep end in 5...4...3...2...1....

 

I can tell you what makes a woman fall in love and what makes her fall out.

"I know the history of psychology, Matt....You don't."

 

What makes her cheat and what makes her loyal and happy.

But I just can't figure out how to make them stop screaming.

 

Why strippers are looked down upon.

Because you've gotta be a real socio-scientific genius to figure that out.

 

I understand just about every contradiction (at first glance) or puzzling aspect there is about women and why those contradictions actually makes sense.

Oh, now I understand! They're screaming because they're happy!

 

I can tell you the impact social conditioning has on all of this.

So you would think...but we secretly replaced your social conditioning with new Folger's Crystals!

 

I can even explain the actions of the males as well.

I've figured out that they're screaming because they're happy, too!

 

Stuff people don't really know conciously.

Secretly, everyone loves and respects Davey Richards, and desires to please him sexually and provide him with burnt sacrifices.

 

Message boards in particular including this one are fascinating to view.

And unlike women, I don't even need my telescope for this!

 

As far as women goes, I love them even though I know a couple of truths that are very hard for me to accept.

Like "garroting them with an electrical cord isn't acceptable courtship behavior".

 

On the opposite of the coin, I know the absolute thrill it is to have a women call you her hero.

Not personally, of course, but that guy looked really happy after he got my electrical cord off of her throat and punched me in the face.

 

I have been flat out told by multiple women that I can have any women fall in love with me.

"....but I'm really not into the dating scene right now, so if you'd just untie me...."

 

I have been accused of being a ladies man several times.

Well, those weren't the exact terms the cops used, but....

 

I have been given gifts, offered free rent and vacation time for my whole family.

"Please, Mrs. Evil, we'll do anything, just take that freakshow son of yours and leave our town alone!"

 

I have been told (in more provacative words) by women who pride themselves on being not easy that I can seduce any woman.

....if I were the type of psychopath who manipulated people with their superficial charm instead of the type who laid their balls-out craziness bare on the table. I'm not quite sure what that meant. I think it might be like the screaming.

 

Sometimes, I actually have to hold back.

I mean, I usually don't, but the judge said I had to.

 

Others can do this too.

But the Chemical Brothers told me not to!

 

I'm out of here now though. I don't think by the way people are talking that they are open enough to discuss this.

Yeah, funny how everyone is wrong but you.

 

If that was tough, than the other things I know might be too much of a burden to take on.

THIS IS WHAT RESIDENT EVIL ACTUALLY BELIEVES

 

EDIT: Final joke retracted out of good taste.

[Resident Evil]

I have 2 people extremely close to me that are dying from disease . I am helping one of them around the hospital. I don't appreciate that last joke.

 

As far as the questions go, there are general overall rules on a women's behaviour when it comes to love and how a male triggers or repels it. Everyone is of course different but the general rules are there. It's all rooted in biology. I've studied it, talked to people who have studied it a lot more than I have and have come to the same conclusions they did after thinking about interactions with women. When you experience and can see the whole overview map things make sense. Growing up, I was "confused" as a lot of guys are since love for a women is more complicated and often times a contradiction. They have to be more sure when hooking up than guys do and with that process comes complications. Some people will go their whole lives without understanding why.

[BruiserBrody]

Quiet down Wild P.

[BruiserBrody]

Better yet tell everyone about the "Weight Bench Orgasm" story you shared with us at Thesmartmarks.com forum

[S.L.L.]

I have 2 people extremely close to me dying of cancer. I am helping one of them around the hospital. I don't appreciate that last joke.

I've edited it out. It was admittedly in poor taste.

[jdw]

Plus I reiterate my question. What about gays and lesbians ? Does that mean they are "not normal" by these bizarre, creepy standarts ? Because they sure as hell don't look for the alpha male that will provide the healthier seed or the best child-bearing hips woman.

Add polyamorous to the list as well:

 

Polyamorous

 

There are a lot of women who aren't programed to look for the alpha male, and instead are the alpha female in various relationships. That doesn't mean alpha female in a Sub-Dom relationship (which is another thing that screws up WP's programing concept), but instead as the primary female to various males. There are even plenty of Mono/Poly relationships where it's the male who is monogamous and the female is poly.

 

As SLL says, we are so far removed from our base animal instincts.

 

When 10% of the population is LGBT, lord knows how poly women (which much like homosexuality is very common for people to repress as "not normal"), lord knows how many men who are Subs, and lord knows how many men and women who don't want to have kids (i.e. that seed planting stuff), the notion that *all* men and *all* women are programmed in the same way is...

 

Rocks in the fucking head.

 

It's a big world out there beyond the bubble you live in. That we all live in. Projecting beyond the bubble runs quickly into that don't fit so well into what we think we "know".

 

John

[Loss]

That.

 

Plus I reiterate my question. What about gays and lesbians ? Does that mean they are "not normal" by these bizarre, creepy standarts ? Because they sure as hell don't look for the alpha male that will provide the healthier seed or the best child-bearing hips woman.

That is a whole another topic but I'm not going to get into that. You'd love the answers though.

Might as well get into it at this point, the can of worms has been opened and I'm curious.

[Loss]

Res won't answer, and I'm kinda terrified by what his answer would be. But as long as you're asking, and as long as I'm throwing down with the anthropology, my own thoughts are the same as George Carlin's thoughts when he did his bit about "gay lib" way back when. People were asking (and still ask) "is it normal, and is it natural," and George concluded that it was probably normal but not natural, as nature did not presuppose it, but if it feels good and hurts no one, than it can't be that abnormal.

I can't tell you how much I disagree with this. Homosexuality has been found in nature.

 

As to what they're looking for, they probably are looking for "the healthier seed". It's just that they're not looking for it for those reasons. They're looking for it because that's the basis of any given society's standard of beauty, and they probably want to sleep with attractive people regardless of whether or not they're going to reproduce with them.

Two things:

 

(1) Just to clarify, some gays have no desire to sleep with attractive "people" as much as an attractive "person". I know that you weren't implying non-monogamy with that, so it's less a response to you, and more of an addition from me that I felt was needed, since the stereotype of gay men is often that they don't have the self control to be monogamous.

 

(2) I think many gay people, especially lesbians, have paternal, nurturing instincts. For example, I don't have a biological desire to reproduce, but I really want to have children. Think of it as compartmentalizing. Reproducing and having children are about as connected to me as socks and orange juice.

 

Although determining differences in standards of beauty between gay and straight people might make for an interesting sociology experiment, now that I think about it. Still, my general understanding was that gay standards of beauty were pretty much the same as those of the general population, which is based on suitability as a mate.

The stereotype within the gay community is that gay men want someone who looks like they look. Like any stereotype, sometimes it's right, and sometimes it's not.

[Bix]

The stereotype within the gay community is that gay men want someone who looks like they look. Like any stereotype, sometimes it's right, and sometimes it's not.

Isn't that based partially on actual (non-sexual preference biased) scientific studies where people find those with facial characteristics closer to their own more attractive and trustworthy?

[Resident Evil]

I shouldn't have made such a blanket statement originally as it's not that clear and simple (I wasn't planning to write pages over one comment) but I always thought it was obvious that men in general have a tendancy or are more open to be with multiple women and that women have a tendancy to want to stick to fewer or 1 man. That's based in human nature and comes out in statements like the one sek originally commented on. People can at least agree to that, right???? I'm not even here even saying it's right or wrong. It's just the way it is.

 

 

I don't even know where to start but I see up there that JDW is way off on at least some things. It would take awhile to explain but like I said people aren't open here and are being closed minded afraid of reality. Besides, it's time for LOST. I'm done in this thread until the subject is changed.

 

I've edited it out. It was admittedly in poor taste

Ty.

[Jingus]

Your "I know how women's minds work down to a mathematical certainity" boasts certainly do remind me of something.

 

 

"RESPECT THE COCK!"

[S.L.L.]

Res won't answer, and I'm kinda terrified by what his answer would be. But as long as you're asking, and as long as I'm throwing down with the anthropology, my own thoughts are the same as George Carlin's thoughts when he did his bit about "gay lib" way back when. People were asking (and still ask) "is it normal, and is it natural," and George concluded that it was probably normal but not natural, as nature did not presuppose it, but if it feels good and hurts no one, than it can't be that abnormal.

I can't tell you how much I disagree with this. Homosexuality has been found in nature.

I think you're conflating two different definitions of "nature", but it's really a moot point. Homosexuality exists, and Res' argument is fucked as a result.

 

(2) I think many gay people, especially lesbians, have paternal, nurturing instincts. For example, I don't have a biological desire to reproduce, but I really want to have children. Think of it as compartmentalizing. Reproducing and having children are about as connected to me as socks and orange juice.

This fucks his argument up, too. In fact, this ties back really nicely about how these old primal instincts have developed significantly since man first walked the Earth. Certain actions and behaviors developed as a result of our desire to achieve certain things, like men sleeping around (and later, staying put) in order to reproduce. But today, not only is it possible to separate the idea of reproduction from the idea of sex, it is overwhelmingly common, and people will actually go out of their way to make sure that they don't reproduce when they have sex. That alone takes the whole "programming" argument behind a woodshed and beats it to death with a rusty hammer. The fact that you can actually separate the concept of reproducing and the concept of having children pretty much drops an atom bomb on it.

 

I shouldn't have made such a blanket statement originally as it's not that clear and simple (I wasn't planning to write pages over one comment) but I always thought it was obvious that men in general have a tendancy or are more open to be with multiple women and that women have a tendancy to want to stick to fewer or 1 man. That's based in human nature and comes out in statements like the one sek originally commented on. People can at least agree to that, right???? I'm not even here even saying it's right or wrong. It's just the way it is.

 

 

I don't even know where to start but I see up there that JDW is way off on at least some things. It would take awhile to explain but like I said people aren't open here and are being closed minded afraid of reality.

Yes, "people" are being closed minded and afraid of reality.

 

It's a big world out there beyond the bubble you live in. That we all live in. Projecting beyond the bubble runs quickly into that don't fit so well into what we think we "know".

Res, all of your arguments end with everybody else telling you you're wrong, pointing out solid evidence that you're wrong, and you shutting your eyes and jamming your fingers in your ears and telling everybody else that you're indisputably right more or less because you said so. Everyone else is biased. Everyone else is ignorant. Everyone else is dishonest. Everyone else is closed-minded. Everyone else is afraid of reality.

 

I'm sure everyone else is projecting, too.

[jdw]

I don't even know where to start but I see up there that JDW is way off on at least some things. It would take awhile to explain but like I said people aren't open here and are being closed minded afraid of reality.

On this topic? Oh... I'm extremely open minded on human sexuality and human relationships, especially those that differ from mine just as mine differ from others. I'm pretty confident that I've seen, experianced, come in contact with and dealt with plenty of "reality" that doesn't fit into the four corners of your nice boxes. On this topic, I'm far removed from closed minded. And hardly alone given the posts in the thread.

 

John

[tomk]

Guys who are fucking multiple WWE divas are not fucking women with child bearing hips or breasts that you'd want to use to nurse children...unless you think silicon is a useful nutrient.

[S.L.L.]

By the way, I just have to cross-post this because it made me laugh for about five straight minutes..This is Neil on the Crush Kill Crush board summing up Res' argument:

 

I love how he went from acting like he's fucking Spock or some shit - "Your message boards are fascinating and I wish to observe your strange human behavior" to I AM THE BATMAN OF SEX within, like, two sentences.

[Jingus]

The new TSM is pointing and laughing at this as well.