"He's ambitiously stupid" - Why Scott Keith's new book is scary bad

[Zoo Enthusiast]

This seems like a good topic to ask him about on Twitter.

[sek69]

 

Have we mentioned Keith is teasing doing a full book on JCP and it's demise?

 

I hope and pray that he writes it, solely so we can see Meltzer's angry Observer feature correcting all the mistakes.

 

 

 

Which would lead to people @'ing him on Twitter saying he's wrong because it's different from what SK's book says.

[MoS]

I remember Austin getting (slightly) more cheers than Rock in the build-up to WM 17, but I don't remember Rock getting boo'd. However, Dave's point about turning Rock and not Austin was not one of booing or cheering but the kind of investment people had in their respective characters. He said you could turn Rock because Rock was like Hogan, a larger-than-life charismatic figure. He said that Austin was much much more like Bruno, and that's how fans felt about him, and there's a reason why they never turned Bruno. It just wouldn't have worked. By the end of their first runs, both Bruno and Austin had the kind of relationship with fans which would have made a heel run absolutely disastrous.

[FMKK]

From time to time I read a Keith review just to see what that sort of section of fans thinks but good lord, he really is horrible. His ratings seem to be entirely based on received smark opinion e.g. everything by Owens or Rollins is graded super highly because we're 'supposed' to think they're great while anything with say, The Miz is graded a bit lower because we're 'supposed' to think he sucks.

[Migs]

From time to time I read a Keith review just to see what that sort of section of fans thinks but good lord, he really is horrible. His ratings seem to be entirely based on received smark opinion e.g. everything by Owens or Rollins is graded super highly because we're 'supposed' to think they're great while anything with say, The Miz is graded a bit lower because we're 'supposed' to think he sucks.

 

I haven't seen the match yet, but is ***1/2 a really low rating for Miz-Ziggler?

[Matt D]

Going to stick this here. It was surreal going to the NXT show. The Jose vs Drifter match was mainly Drifter working holds (including a chinlock), Jose getting the fans clapping, and Drifter cheating to cut off and going back to a hold. They were working them, fighting for them, fighting in them. The crowd, hot all night, was absolutely into it, with the cutoffs getting heat. When Jose finally came back, he got a big pop for it and for the win.

 

The guy behind me was grumbling like crazy though: "Another rest hold! This match is nothing but rest holds!"

 

You guys are the best.

[goc]

Who the hell invented that term "rest hold" anyway? It's a grave sin and it's come to the point now where a bunch of idiots think any wrestling hold that doesn't lead to a submission is a "rest hold"

[InYourCase]

Who the hell invented that term "rest hold" anyway? It's a grave sin and it's come to the point now where a bunch of idiots think any wrestling hold that doesn't lead to a submission is a "rest hold"

But why, in modern wrestling when a majority of the crowd understands that a nerve hold or a rear chinlock is not a realistic submission, do people still do it? It's not like wrestling is full of immobile giants. Sure, Kongo Kong can throw on a nerve hold. I'll roll my eyes, but he's a good enough worker to get past something like that. Why are people putting on holds that aren't in some way, shape, or form trying to end the match? Can we not have a little believability in our matwork? What is sitting in a chinlock, a la Roman Reigns, going to do for anyone? I think Kevin Owens, who I love, is just as guilty. His biggest flaw as a worker is the headlock that is shoehorned into every match he has now. I'm not saying that attempting to apply an armbar instead of sitting in a boring hold is going to result in a better match, but at least then, I can see that one of the competitors is trying to win the match.

[Matt D]

The majority of the crowd was sure into that match, but I guess they've just got more imagination than you do?

[NintendoLogic]

They're wear-down holds. They're not going to win matches on their own, but they make opponents more susceptible to high-impact moves. It's like running the ball up the middle in football.

[goc]

Let someone jam their fingers into your trapezius muscle and then tell me a nerve hold wouldn't actually hurt. This was one of those wrestling moves my brother and I used to do to each other and it fucking SUCKS. Chin locks however are pretty fucking lame and just show a complete lack of creativity.

[InYourCase]

Let someone jam their fingers into your trapezius muscle and then tell me a nerve hold wouldn't actually hurt. This was one of those wrestling moves my brother and I used to do to each other and it fucking SUCKS. Chin locks however are pretty fucking lame and just show a complete lack of creativity.

I can fully admit I've never had anyone try to submit me with a nerve hold.

 

I do, however, think it's a dated move. One that doesn't hold up with modern times.

[JerryvonKramer]

The nerveholds are one of those things that are really painful in real life but really suck in the context of watching wrestling.

 

Killer Kowolski at MSG in the 70s, or the Samoans or Great Kabuki. Truly some of the most boring wrestling I've ever had to sit through, and the nerveholds are half of the reason.

[Matt D]

It's all about how they're worked, like any other hold. It's about how they're sold, the struggle put into them, how they're presented in a larger picture sort of way, and how they're used in a match. Everything is a tool. It's just how the tools are used. A nerve hold can be the most compelling thing in the world if the stars align and it's used properly. I do think that nerve holds are slightly harder to work than other things, though, because they limit facial expressions to a degree, sort of contain the body language of the person taking it, and don't generally allow for much motion in the person putting it on. If someone's constantly repositioning it and letting go and starting anew and grinding down that way, it tends to work better. Just having it on can be problematic.

[JerryvonKramer]

Jack Brisco is pretty good at selling nerveholds, Martel also. Basically a lot of wild spasms to get over the pain. Most people just lie there and maybe cry out in pain a bit. Think it's on the seller to make the nervehold mean something.

 

The worst matches for "restholds" I've ever seen are Don Muraco vs. Pedro Morales ones over IC title. Fucking woeful.

[BruiserBrody]

"Buddy Landell dressed up like Flair and they never interacted or acknowledged it"

 

Comment section then fills up with results and clips of the feud....

 

No comment from SK though.

[DeanColes1987]

This was his quote, keep in mind he reviewed the TBS shows from 85

 

​"It was that way all the way back to Landell’s run in 85, where he was doing the exact same act as Flair with the same name and no one ever pointed it out on commentary. You’d think this would set up some kind of a feud or confrontation, but NOPE. It always confused me as a kid, too."

 

 

Edit: I know the videos from Worldwide but it aired on TBS as well

Edited October 27, 2016 by DeanColes1987

[sek69]

If I recall correctly he was doing that for a while before Flair acknowledged it, so I can see how at some point you're wondering if it's a rib of some sort, but yes to say nothing ever came of it is silly.

[MikeCampbell]

"So…is Finn trying to say something with his rainbow Balor Club gear and LGBT fanclub as a part of the entrance? I’ve heard others make claims, but I don’t think he’s ever said anything on the record."

Wow, so apparently anyone who does something for the LGBT community must be gay.

[FMKK]

Like all of his stuff, his humour is warmed over shit that should've been left in the 90s

[Lee]

The one that grates on me the most is where someone or something is mentioned in the Obsever Recaps that we know goes on to be huge, and he makes literally the exact same tired joke about it. Something like "A kid named Steve Austin debuted and was said to look really good" followed by Keith adding "Like this Austin kid will ever get over and become the biggest star in the business, HAHAHADEDFUNNYLAFF".

"Buddy Landell dressed up like Flair and they never interacted or acknowledged it"

 

Comment section then fills up with results and clips of the feud....

 

No comment from SK though.

Regarding his intentional ignorance towards being corrected, he actually blocked me from leaving comments on his blog because he got sick of how many times I called him out on both his bullshit and his blanket refusal to ever acknowledge his mistakes, even when presented with evidence.

[shodate]

i hate the term resthold

[fxnj]

I'm torn on it. On one hand, I do think Keith's usage of the term has done a lot of harm in propagating the view that any form of matwork or submissions is automatically boring and is only done to kill time or to give guys a rest. On the other hand, I don't think the term would be able to exist if not for workers like Flair and Race who were promoting the work-rate style Keith champions long before he was writing and who often did treat matwork as "restholds" are normally thought of. It's bad that the term's become so misused, but guys who sit in headlocks and armlocks for no reason deserve to get called out on it.

[joeg]

Without working holds a match would consists of running the ropes, a wrestler taking a bump, getting right to his feet unimpeded, running the ropes again and bumping again. Without headlocks and armlocks, matches would look like fire pro.

[Matt D]

A chinlock has to be used for a greater narrative purpose and executed with some sense of struggle. Ultimately, though, it, like Keith himself, is just a tool.