cheapshot Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 Then tell me what things should we be looking at? NXT is his baby. He is totally hands on in it. It's what he's in charge of. So holding him accountable for NXT is fair.Holding him accountable for WWE creative isn't. Ryan Ward should also be held accountable to a lesser extent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strand Peanut Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 Maybe HHH can get real hands on and go to NXT so he can develop as a promoter. When's their first road show? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheapshot Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 They're already running house shows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 He's the Executive Vice President, Talent, Live Events & Creative. If we just assess Triple H based on NXT, then you're assessing him on only part of his job. By his very job title, we should be holding him accountable for WWE creative, as well as Vince McMahon! Triple H is the head of talent relations, so he should be compared with his predecessors JJ Dillon, Jim Ross and John Laurinaitis. He's also the number two guy in creative behind Vince McMahon, so he should also be compared with his former right-hand men in that department. People have worked very successfully under Vince in the past, even when he was out of touch before. If Triple H can't do that, then he's not fully succeeding in his position. That 's a fair argument . I'm not advocating that he's been amazing in his role. I feel HHH with Ryan Ward have done a good job with the NXT product. Granted he's the #2 guy in creative . I think though we won't get an idea on what he's truly capeable of until Vince, and to a lesser extent Kevin Dunn are out of the way. Just by looking at NXT he sees the landscape changing. He's come to realize that talent comes in all shapes, sizes, and looks. This is a big leap from 5 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.L.L. Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 I've watched enough shitty, overblown HHH "epics" to get a sense for what HHH's vision of what professional wrestling should be, and when I compare and contrast that with what's happening in NXT, I really wonder if we overplay the degree of credit that we give him for how good it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 I'm not defending his choices as a wrestler. He's a guy I've never liked. I'll just wait and see on what type of leader he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Liska Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 His match with Bryan was praised for not being the usual bloated HHH epic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strand Peanut Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 They're already running house shows. What are they drawing in CoCoa Beach? I'm more interested in their March show in Ohio. HHH as a P amuses me to no end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man in Blak Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 I'm willing to believe that 2014 Triple H (such as the Daniel Bryan match) has different ideas than 2004 Triple H about what makes a good wrestling match. Ten years is a long time. I'm not as convinced, however, that NXT is really an accurate picture of what Triple H wants to do with the WWE product at-large because, as he explained in the Stone Cold Podcast interview, NXT is serving a different audience with different stakes. He very clearly framed NXT as an alternative to WWE, rather than his vision for WWE going forward. I'm also not ready to accept the idea that Triple H has moved on from being a politician - judging by all of the backstage stuff that we hear about Triple H and Kevin Dunn, it seems just as likely to me that Triple H has just refocused his political efforts on creative/production staff, rather than on-screen talent (which, to be frank, isn't really his competition any more). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 I think the main reason that Triple H vs. Daniel Bryan wasn't his usual bloated epic was the match's position opening the show and the fact Bryan had to work the main event two hours later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMJ Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 They're already running house shows. What are they drawing in CoCoa Beach? I'm more interested in their March show in Ohio. HHH as a P amuses me to no end. I'm predicting good things in terms of attendance, as long as the WWE is smart in promoting the show. I went to a TNA show in Columbus a few years back - Angle, Mickie James, AJ Styles were all there - and the crowd wasn't too small. Honestly, I've probably been to better-attended AIW shows here in Cleveland, but AIW does a nice job of (a) filling a small room to make it seem more crowded and (b ) building a bit of a "casuals welcome" audience where you have 80% of the audience being the loyals and the other 20% being the hipsters/punks/kitsch-lovers who come to one show a year to get their fix of "underground wrestling" because it is "something different." (I'm not saying that as a negative either because I'm definitely closer to Category B more than a loyal attendee). But, yeah, my buddies in Columbus are going...though, they've also announced Money In The Bank will be there this June, so, it'll be interesting to see if some fans will choose one over the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clintthecrippler Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 I could have sworn Meltzer said the NXT show in Ohio next month already sold out. I am guessing its in a small ballroom though since its in conjunction with the Arnold Classic weightlifting weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man in Blak Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 I think the main reason that Triple H vs. Daniel Bryan wasn't his usual bloated epic was the match's position opening the show and the fact Bryan had to work the main event two hours later. That's certainly possible, though the Shield/Evolution matches moved along at a decent clip. Even the Payback match, which was an elimination tag match, just barely crossed thirty minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 I just want to repeat that I love that the internet gave him a fruit basket. That's one of my favorite wrestling things in years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strand Peanut Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 I could have sworn Meltzer said the NXT show in Ohio next month already sold out. I am guessing its in a small ballroom though since its in conjunction with the Arnold Classic weightlifting weekend. It is sold out. It's supposed to be at the LC Amphitheater. It's an outdoor concert venue, with a lawn. 5,500 capacity for concert events. Usually pit seats and lawn seats, and from the ticket layout, I'd guess the ring will be where the pit seats usually are. No idea how many tickets sold, but there's room at that location to sell more. Also is being co-promoted by Arnold. Not sure if there were tickets packages including the NXT show. Was this promoted on NXT in any way? Was there local promotion for the event? Why are they bringing all these guys to a bodybuilding competition/convention where WWE is going to try and recruit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.L.L. Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 I'm not defending his choices as a wrestler. He's a guy I've never liked. I'll just wait and see on what type of leader he is. He was able to make those choices as a wrestler because he was a leader. I'm willing to believe that 2014 Triple H (such as the Daniel Bryan match) has different ideas than 2004 Triple H about what makes a good wrestling match. Ten years is a long time. Is one year a long time? That shitburger Brock match happened the Mania prior. I just find it really suspicious how drastically the narrative is changing on HHH just because some of the circumstances around him are changing for the better, when there's not really a ton of evidence that that change is actually coming from him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pol Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 I remember the Observer reporting that the NXT show was a sellout at ~2000 tickets sold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 If we are going to draw conclusions on HHH's ring work and how he'll run the company. Based on ringwork and him not putting over a ton of guys. I'd say he's embezzling from the company. I don't even like the guy. I 'll find out in a few years if he has the skills Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted February 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 Well what he does have more direct input on (NXT) has been demonstrably better than most other wrestling shows so we have that to grade him on. Of course they benefit from only being an hour a week, I'm sure NXT would be just as unbearable as Raw if it was 3 hours every week. I don't expect WWE to be drastically different if/when he takes over, there's still going to be an advantage to being a tall muscle guy after all, but just the fact that he seems to be willing to go out and find the best guys anywhere in the world is an upgrade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.L.L. Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 If we are going to draw conclusions on HHH's ring work and how he'll run the company. Based on ringwork and him not putting over a ton of guys. I'd say he's embezzling from the company. I don't even like the guy. I...really don't understand what the point of this comment is. Like, not at all. I don't even like the guy. I 'll find out in a few years if he has the skills We all will, obviously. I'm just saying it's very weird - especially given the general attitudes people have had towards HHH until recently - that people are starting to line up to give him the benefit of the doubt when there's no real evidence that's he's doing anything differently than he ever has. It is also weird that this image seems to be emerging that because he isn't the most powerful figure in the company - and has, in fact, been on the losing end of some power struggles recently - means he wields no power, and we, in fact, have no idea what WWE TV looks like when HHH exerts power on (and that it doesn't have an alarming tendency to suck). Is it really crazy for me to be suspicious of the guy with the long, established track record of being bad at his job because of a demonstrated, consistent failure to understand how pro wrestling works, and to find it strange when people just start having his back out of nowhere? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eduardo Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 Another point, doesn't HHH, apparently, hold grudges longer than Vince? Wasn't the story that Vince was more open to the idea of Punk returning (if Punk wanted to, that is) than HHH? Also, Punk leaving, and Del Rio's stories of the atmosphere backstage, along with HHH's history, makes me take the same stance as SLL above me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.L.L. Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 Well what he does have more direct input on (NXT) has been demonstrably better than most other wrestling shows so we have that to grade him on. Of course they benefit from only being an hour a week, I'm sure NXT would be just as unbearable as Raw if it was 3 hours every week. I don't expect WWE to be drastically different if/when he takes over, there's still going to be an advantage to being a tall muscle guy after all, but just the fact that he seems to be willing to go out and find the best guys anywhere in the world is an upgrade. OK, serious question time...what does HHH do on NXT? I know it's his pet project, but how much of a hand does he actually have in running the thing. I know he's got a much broader scope of what kind of talent he's willing to bring into the company. That goes back to him hiring Mistico and Amazing Kong, and I'll give him full credit for that, despite how those two panned out. But the actual NXT product that we see...how much of that is actually him? Look, if HHH takes over for Vince, surrounds himself with guys like Ryan Ward, and tells them, "I'm gonna go hit the gym, you guys take care of shit around here, don't screw anything up", I would be perfectly OK with that. And that very well may be the model he aims for when he takes over (whether or not circumstances allow that to happen is another story). But just last year, HHH followed up a legitimately selfless loss to Daniel Bryan at Mania by main eventing a pair of PPVs against one of the hottest acts in the company while Bryan was buried in the midcard against Kane, and then followed that up by splitting up said hot act for no good reason whatsoever so one of it's members could spend the rest of the year palling around with him. Am I really to believe Kevin Dunn held HHH at gunpoint and forced him to put himself in high profile angles at the expense of hotter, better acts? Is that really so unlike HHH? Or do you agree with me that maybe the situation is a bit more complex than people are painting it as? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 If we are going to draw conclusions on HHH's ring work and how he'll run the company. Based on ringwork and him not putting over a ton of guys. I'd say he's embezzling from the company. I don't even like the guy. I...really don't understand what the point of this comment is. Like, not at all. I don't even like the guy. I 'll find out in a few years if he has the skills We all will, obviously. I'm just saying it's very weird - especially given the general attitudes people have had towards HHH until recently - that people are starting to line up to give him the benefit of the doubt when there's no real evidence that's he's doing anything differently than he ever has. It is also weird that this image seems to be emerging that because he isn't the most powerful figure in the company - and has, in fact, been on the losing end of some power struggles recently - means he wields no power, and we, in fact, have no idea what WWE TV looks like when HHH exerts power on (and that it doesn't have an alarming tendency to suck). Is it really crazy for me to be suspicious of the guy with the long, established track record of being bad at his job because of a demonstrated, consistent failure to understand how pro wrestling works, and to find it strange when people just start having his back out of nowhere? The 1st part is that he was such a selfish worker and only caring about himself. That he'd likely being selfish as CEO and would be screwing people over by embezzling money. It's my sarcastic way of saying judging how someone works is a way he's going to run the company. If Misterio was CEO would he be the most giving boss? The 2nd part I get what you're saying. I'm just at my wits end of creative in the WWE. I know I'm getting bad creative going forward in the WWE. HHH's baby NXT seems to be doing a better job at that. Does that mean it'll translate when he.'s the guy. No we have no idea. It's more of I'm hoping he makes the proper changes. Will he make the proper changes when he's in charge . If I had to bet it would be no. My whole reason of jumping into the thread was it feltthat HHH was getting the brunt of the criticisms while it's Vince that has gotten us here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boondocks Kernoodle Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 I remember the Observer reporting that the NXT show was a sellout at ~2000 tickets sold. This week's Observer: "The 3/5 NXT show in Columbus, OH did sellout immediately, but they sold nowhere near 2,200 tickets. The place was set up for closer to 600 people." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 But just last year, HHH followed up a legitimately selfless loss to Daniel Bryan at Mania by main eventing a pair of PPVs against one of the hottest acts in the company while Bryan was buried in the midcard against Kane, and then followed that up by splitting up said hot act for no good reason whatsoever so one of it's members could spend the rest of the year palling around with him. I wouldn't call it "legitimately selfless", as Triple H has been milking that loss for all it's worth to get himself over as the babyface in WWE's creative hierarchy in recent weeks, with the propaganda initiative suspiciously coinciding with the company seemingly going out of their way to sabotage his return. Clearly you can credit Hunter for being a smart politician, but I don't think we can draw any stronger conclusions than that. Continuing on with the theme of a leopard doesn't really change his spots, 11 years ago HHH followed up a legitimately selfless loss to Chris Benoit at Mania (and Shawn doing the same in Chris' hometown) by main eventing a PPV against his best buddy in one of their most overblown epics ever, while Benoit was buried in the midcard against Kane, and then followed that up by having the hottest act in his heel stable beat Benoit for the belt, then turning on said hot heel the very next day for no good reason whatsoever other than he had to get the title back at the next pay-per-view. So Bryan got the Benoit treatment, except that his neck injury stopped him from being squashed by Lesnar for the title at SummerSlam, and the fans wouldn't go along with the company's attempt to slot him back in the midcard where he belonged after having his moment. But now it's all Vince's fault? Vince rightly bore the brunt of the criticism when the Royal Rumble happened, but Triple H's "golly gee, what could I do?" routine is hard to believe when he's better than most at getting the old man to change his mind, and there's little hard evidence that he values Bryan much more than Vince does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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