The "Confirmed Stories of Triple H Being A Total Douchebag" Thread

[Sidebottom]

Probably the Fabulous Kangaroos or possibly the Medics

 

The Fabulous Rats, perhaps.

[The Chief]

Connir and Vickter

[Strand Peanut]

JR set up a system from scratch.

 

HHH has brought their developmental system into their corporate structure.

 

They both have their own challenges. As does every era.. OVW was at times great fun when Johnny Ace was head of talent..

 

Just call me skeptical that HHH has really changed much to improve developmental at this point. With time, that may change.

 

Too early to celebrate, especially over corporate streamlining.

[Johnny Guitar]

JR set up a system from scratch.

 

HHH has brought their developmental system into their corporate structure.

 

They both have their own challenges. As does every era.. OVW was at times great fun when Johnny Ace was head of talent..

 

Just call me skeptical that HHH has really changed much to improve developmental at this point. With time, that may change.

 

Too early to celebrate, especially over corporate streamlining.

 

Although it may have been from orders from above. Johnny Ace's stint as head of developmental saw the system that Jr set up pretty much burned to the ground. There might me some exceptions, that progessed in that era, but for the most part, he's been deemed as a total failiure.

 

He's the man that signed the wrong, one legged wrestler.

 

Regardless of what you think of HHH's abilities or politics. He's at least seen a need to hire or train some talented individuals that have potential and or buzz around them. Not all of them have paid off, Sin Cara & Kharma. But there is at least the perception that someone in WWE's hierarchy is thinking about the future.

[Strand Peanut]

I wasn't paying close attention (if any) towards the end of Johnny Ace's stint.

 

Would love to know more about razing down development under him. Always seemed an odd man for the job. I had always wondered if him coming up in Baba's system was somehow a factor.

 

But he's probably just a real nice guy that everyone likes. ha!

[Dooley]

He instituted a dress code in WCW. That's about the extent of his qualifications to take the VP Talent role.

[NintendoLogic]

The thing about NXT is that while it may be a great standalone promotion, I question its value as a developmental territory. The goal of a developmental system should be to train wrestlers and make them as well-rounded as possible, not get them over locally by hiding their weaknesses.

[Robert S]

Wasn't Ace also known to be a great finish guy during his short WCW run?

[Timbo Slice]

The thing about NXT is that while it may be a great standalone promotion, I question its value as a developmental territory. The goal of a developmental system should be to train wrestlers and make them as well-rounded as possible, not get them over locally by hiding their weaknesses.

I don't get the idea of them hiding weaknesses, though. Not all wrestlers are going to be well-rounded. Triple H even said that not everyone who comes through is going to be seen as a top-level guy. They're basically looking for things that work, and then go with what works. If it means you're a mid-card guy, you'll go as a mid-card guy. The thing is that right now, there are plenty of guys who have a shot of being above the midway point in the card, it just depends on how things break for them.

 

And JR implemented the system, yes. Ace didn't do much from a development standpoint. He was the conduit between the main roster and the development system, but the decisions he made weren't really on him. They were more collective when he was in charge. He was a great producer, but that was the extent of his talents. I don't think much happened when he was in charge, which is why they handed it over to Triple H.

[El-P]

He put WCW ouf of business. Yes, he really did.

[Matt D]

[Dooley]

Wasn't Ace also known to be a great finish guy during his short WCW run?

 

I thought Mike Graham was WCW's "finish guy"?

[Strand Peanut]

 

And JR implemented the system, yes. Ace didn't do much from a development standpoint. He was the conduit between the main roster and the development system, but the decisions he made weren't really on him. They were more collective when he was in charge. He was a great producer, but that was the extent of his talents. I don't think much happened when he was in charge, which is why they handed it over to Triple H.

It was more collective ? So Vince didn't have the final say ?

 

HHH has said the decisions are not on him. And Johnny Ace did sign CM Punk and Bryan.

 

I think the main difference is HHH being seen as a proxy for the "promoter" of NXT. He gets to promote his signings. And everyone assumes he'll be taking over.. at some point. So then people see NXT as his vision of wrestling. I don't think that's far off.

 

And I'm not so sure it's true. What is his vision? No idea. But if NXT is the example, his vision of a wrestling show is a lot like OVW, but using the WWE platform to promote it.

 

An advantage afforded no one else. I even question the idea of nationally promoting something as a developmental league. Especially when they have so many guys on the other side of 30. Many coming in with relatively finished acts.

 

How's he doing as talent relations head for the main roster?

 

Things may change, occasionally people even change, but it's the premise of promise I don't think he deserves at this point.

 

Give it to the talent. Not the phony "P." who's in CT.

[Timbo Slice]

Yeah, but you're saying we're all putting the cart in front of the horse when the guy driving the damn thing undercuts a lot of the ideas Triple H has.

 

I'm not by any means saying he's a savior. But Triple H himself has said on more than one occasion that the lack of a collective vision on the main roster has made his job very difficult. He's had to be the guy telling talent that plans that were laid out in front of him are no longer gonna happen because Vince has changed his mind numerous times.

 

The reason why the talent is being given the benefit of the doubt is because right now, without question, it's the best roster NXT has ever had. It's not even really close, either. But that talent getting a chance to shine doesn't happen without a guy giving them the opportunity to do so. If Triple H's hands off approach is what he feels is best, then it's working because people enjoy the product. He doesn't have to be 100% involved. He's more of a delegator with NXT than anything else, and he definitely deserves credit for that.

 

The promise is coming from the idea that Vince has shown that for many years now that he doesn't care about many people's ideas other than his own. This idea of the crowd controlling the show being bad is a ridiculous notion considering that the greatest box office draw in the history of pro wrestling only happened because of crowd reaction. The difference? Vince HAD to push Austin due to not having any alternatives at the time. If he wanted to make money to overtake WCW after the Hogan turn, he needed to take a risk. He's not taking a risk now. He's gonna push the guy that he feels has the opportunity to have a wider fan base at the expense of the hardcore fans that are more prevalent at big shows and are subscribers to the Network.

 

Meanwhile, Triple H is over here running the only product WWE has that's catered specifically to hardcore fans. They are vocal (not a "vocal minority" anymore, either) and are quick to show their displeasure with aspects of the product they don't like. And yet every three months, people on here love the newest NXT event while you have reaction shows for Royal Rumble and now Fast Lane that shit on how the main roster shows are being presented. And a lot of that has to do with this perceived notion of the largest amount of possible fans a show can have and them catering to what has been proven to be a non-existent larger non-hardcore fan base.

 

The people who are fans at this point are really tuned in to the product. This idea of them reaching out and attracting newer fans isn't going to happen by forcing someone down the fans' throats. It's gonna happen like it did 20 years ago when Austin was white hot, you couldn't do anything but push him and Vince feels threatened to do something new at the risk of losing what he's worked for. I don't think he's threatened by what's happening in NXT, but I also think it's gonna have to take a big hit at the box office for him to try something new. We'll see if that happens with Reigns.

[Loss]

 

The most significant event in the history of the world.

[cm funk]

I wasn't paying close attention (if any) towards the end of Johnny Ace's stint.

 

Would love to know more about razing down development under him. Always seemed an odd man for the job. I had always wondered if him coming up in Baba's system was somehow a factor.

 

But he's probably just a real nice guy that everyone likes. ha!

 

A lot of good talent was signed by Ace, but to me a lot of it is offset by the development system falling apart under him, and all the shitty wrestlers he signed, and all the bathing suit models signed as divas

[Badlittlekitten]

He put WCW ouf of business.

He's a heel. Heels talk bollocks. Are you new to wrestling?

[Strand Peanut]

 

 

I wasn't paying close attention (if any) towards the end of Johnny Ace's stint.

 

Would love to know more about razing down development under him. Always seemed an odd man for the job. I had always wondered if him coming up in Baba's system was somehow a factor.

 

But he's probably just a real nice guy that everyone likes. ha!

A lot of good talent was signed by Ace, but to me a lot of it is offset by the development system falling apart under him, and all the shitty wrestlers he signed, and all the bathing suit models signed as divas

Why did the development system fall apart during Ace's tenure? Was it a result of JA's negligence? Or a desire to stop using outside promotions?

 

I agree Johnny Ace signed a good amount of talent. It's not up to him how they got used.

 

But he wasn't doing kayfabe interviews saying how Vince was under cutting his signings. Or allowed to promote the great TV that OVW occasionally pumped out. Was he ?

 

Not to mention HHH has been involved in booking decisions for a long time. Something JR may have been involved in, but I don't think Johnny Ace ever was.

 

If Vince is HHH's roadblock, so be it Johnny Ace's as well. But JA is a failure, and HHH already a success.

 

There is a reality behind the perception of HHH as savior.

 

Is Johnny Ace still employed by WWE?

[El-P]

 

He put WCW ouf of business.

He's a heel. Heels talk bollocks. Are you new to wrestling?

 

 

Are you new to HHH ?

[sek69]

From all accounts I've seen, when Ace was in charge it was when there was little to no communication between the developmental groups and WWE. Was that Johnny's fault? Maybe not entirely but it doesn't seem like he made much of an effort to improve things either.

[cm funk]

From all accounts I've seen, when Ace was in charge it was when there was little to no communication between the developmental groups and WWE. Was that Johnny's fault? Maybe not entirely but it doesn't seem like he made much of an effort to improve things either.

 

This.

 

Also, the move from Ohio to Florida was reportedly a total disorganized clusterfuck. They had like 40+ guys under contract going from OVW and Deep South which had weekly loops to Florida where they're just sitting around doing nothing. It seems like very little planning and foresight went into it beyond "lets go to Florida!" and the way it was implemented didn't really make sense. It's night and day under HHH from where it was with Ace.

[Sean Liska]

It's funny that HHH's progressiveness with regards to how he presents women in NXT has caused such a bunch of trouble for Vince. I know Rousey has changed the game to some degree, but I still don't think people would care much about the women being short-changed on time on RAW if it weren't for these matches at NXT specials.

[MJH]

So the opening segment has run long... you have Ziggler vs. Barrett, Cesaro/Tyson vs. Usos, Goldust vs. Big E, Rusev vs. Sheamus, Bryan vs. Orton and Nikki Bella vs.Emma and have to cut one short... you're cutting the Divas every time and thank God for that. It's all well and good discussing a nice, theoretical company where the women are heavily featured but the WWE hasn't had even a handful of good female wrestlers in the locker room since Survivor Series 95 and you can't run what you don't have.

[Sean Liska]

So the opening segment has run long... you have Ziggler vs. Barrett, Cesaro/Tyson vs. Usos, Goldust vs. Big E, Rusev vs. Sheamus, Bryan vs. Orton and Nikki Bella vs.Emma and have to cut one short... you're cutting the Divas every time and thank God for that. It's all well and good discussing a nice, theoretical company where the women are heavily featured but the WWE hasn't had even a handful of good female wrestlers in the locker room since Survivor Series 95 and you can't run what you don't have.

Yeah, I think some of the outrage is overblown just in the sense that modern WWE still features women more prominently than every other male-dominated wrestling promotion in history. It's not like internet faves like ROH and PWG and NJPW have thriving female wrestling scenes.

[funkdoc]

i think part of it is that people's normal expectations for women's wrestling have been so low that they get blown away by anything competent in WWE. you obviously see that in the reactions to NXT's matches nowadays, but this has been around a long time - heck, it's what made trish & lita's reputations! if anything i think the women's roster is much stronger now than it was in those "glory days"...they're easily more deserving of airtime than the likes of cody or kofi or the miz (once mizdow's gone) or plenty of other guys out there.

 

with the smart-fan crowd, i suspect the ongoing change in wider internet culture has gotten people more attuned to these things as well. discussion of misogyny/sexism is everywhere online these days, as nerd spheres dominated by white dudes have seen an influx of people who don't fit that description. i think this type of fan is much more likely to be sympathetic to those causes than they were 10 years ago, and when WWE's treatment of women looks even worse than video games'...

 

also to respond to MJH a bit more, i would say WWE *could* have a deep women's division if they were ever willing to use the indie talent out there. but nope, no lufisto or cheerleader melissa or sara del rey (yes i know about her trainer gig or whatever) in the ring. i think it's a bit disingenuous to claim they don't have the talent when they could have a bunch of talent if not for their non-wrestling hangups.