C.S. Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 JR took over talent relations from JJ Dillon in I believe 96 and was replaced by Ace in 2004 There is a long list of valuable or top talent he signed that you're not giving him credit for beyond Rock, Brock and Angle: The Hardys & Lita Edge & Christian Mark Henry Val Venis, D Lo Brown, Test, Crash Holly, Steve Blackman and lots of other memorable attitude era staples Trish Stratus John Cena Randy Orton Batista Shelton Benjamin Charlie Haas Carlito Chris Masters Dolph Ziggler Damien Sandow All relatively or totally unknown guys signed by Ross and brought up through the system He's also the one who recruited Jack Swagger, who's the last big amateur signing they've had Because I didn't list every single JR signing, I'm not giving him credit? LOL, no. Most of your names fall into the categories I listed anyway: athlete, ex-WCW/ECW, indy, or 2nd/3rd gen wrestler. Very few were "WWE finds." The Hardys & Lita: Hardys may have predated JR, but my memory could be off. Lita came from ECW. Edge & Christian: Both did time in small Canadian indies. Mark Henry: Athlete Val Venis, D Lo Brown, Test, Crash Holly, Steve Blackman and lots of other memorable attitude era staples: Val was in Mexico, D-Lo was in SMW, Test was a Bret Hart discovery, Crash was in the indies (APW, etc.) as Erin O'Grady, Blackman was a martial arts guy and I think had indy experience, etc. Trish Stratus: Hosted an internet audio show, but probably qualifies as a WWE "find." John Cena: Worked California indies. Randy Orton: 3rd gen. Batista: WWE find, I think. Did try out for the WCW Power Plant, but Dewayne "Yee Haw" Bruce had no idea what he had in Batista. Redneck idiot! Shelton Benjamin: College athlete Charlie Haas: Either a college athlete or a WWE find - I can't remember which. Carlito: 2nd gen, worked Puerto Rico Chris Masters: WWE find? Dolph Ziggler: WWE find? Damien Sandow: WWE find? That stacks up fairly evenly with Triple H IMO, keeping in mind that JR did the job for almost a decade vs. H with much less time. If a lot of the current NXT roster pans out on the main stage, Triple H would have done a lot in far less time. Of course, with fickle Vince and Dunn in control of their futures, that remains to be seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm funk Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 My point is these were guys with minimal exposure who didn't have "names". If most of the names I listed weren't finds then I don't know what is.....where do you expect new talent to come from? Everyone has to start somewhere....most pro-wrestlers aren't just picked off the street The college wrestlers (which includes Haas and Ziggler) were recruited. Henry was recruited. You're saying "athlete" like WWE recruiting and signing and training them doesn't count I'm not knocking HHH at all, he's done a good job bringing in talent, and it isn't all "big name" indy stars he's signed, but you say this Edit: Also, acting like H is only cherry-picking "famous" guys from major indies and overseas (Kevin Owens, Finn Balor, Hideo Itami, etc.) is ignoring most of the NXT roster. Where the hell did Tyler Breeze come from? Bayley? Bull Dempsey? Sasha Banks? etc. Who ever heard of any of these people before NXT? I'm assuming most/all of them were in smaller indies, but they didn't have any major buzz until now. H deserves credit for finding and developing those darkhorses. But when given a list of all these guys Ross brought in you're saying the opposite and minimizing them as finds (ie. doesn't really count because worked small indies, doesn't count because athlete etc.) Breeze worked Canadian indies and trained with Lance Storm. Bayley was around on the Cali indies and Shimmer. Banks was in the New England indies. Dempsey was in the NY/NJ indy scene for years before getting signed. Small stuff and they didn't have big names or buzz, but they'd all been out there working for a while before getting signed.....and they got in by sending in tapes and going to the tryouts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strand Peanut Posted February 12, 2015 Report Share Posted February 12, 2015 cm funk makes a lot of my points for me. Recruiting and devolping high level athletes to sign with the WWE holds more with me then signing established indie stars. But how good is a guy, who keeps bringing employees his two higher ups dislike? Not even sure if that's true. I do think HHH as a fan savior on the business side is screwy. If it's too early to tell in regards to his signings, then it's too early to tell if they're a positive. When did HHH become head of talent relations and start signing people? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD1083 Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Regarding Triple H's corporate responsibilities, WWE is advertising for an open position for Vice President of Operations where it says the job entails being his "right-hand man". Check out the job description: https://careers-wwecorp.icims.com/jobs/3582/vice-president-of-operations/job?mobile=false&width=525&height=500&bga=true&needsRedirect=false I can't decide whether this would be the greatest job in the world or the worst? The fan in me says the former, the adult in me says the latter. Some of my favorite parts: Coordinate administrative tasks, and logistics when neededi.e. book Trip's travel arrangements Work behind the scenes to solve problems, mediate disputes, and deal with issues before they require the EVP’s timeMediate disputes? How appropriate for a "corporate" job. Sounds more like babysitting. Assist the EVP in managing his work schedule and multiple commitmentsBasically, a secretary Ensure EVP is prepared in advance for all meetings and help him transition from his time on the road to his corporate responsibilities effectivelyOnce again, I get a "babysitter" feel, only this time you're babysitting Paul Levesque, executive. Oversee the drafting of communications (letters, emails, executive notes) on behalf of the EVP Must have excellent writing skills and be able to provide editorial support to the EVP as neededOur EVP of Talent, Creative Writing, and Live Events for this billion-dollar publicly traded corporation qualified for this position spending 20 years as a muscle-bound meathead pretending to beat up men in his underwear and marrying the majority owner's daughter; and therefore cannot be trusted to put words together on paper for himself. We need a college educated nerd to write his material for him so he sounds intelligent in public. 24 x 7 availabilityVince can call you at 3 AM with an "emergency" The posting also literally refers to the WWE as a "global entertainment juggernaut" which I find hilarious. Did Vince write this himself? All kidding aside, this sounds like it would be one crazy ride until you inevitably get fired in 18 months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkdoc Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 the ascension were HHH's baby, no? that's a godawful act on almost every conceivable level. not good in the ring and they look like random kratos cosplayers he hired from comic-con. soooooooo yea i share the skepticism of some in this thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Ascension has been around in one form or another for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkdoc Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Ascension has been around in one form or another for years. ah. i just meant that gimmick in particular but thanks! really it's the combination of that look with the level of push they got in NXT that makes the whole thing so corny for me. i can't help but compare them to LOD and such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 I was on the phone so I didn't go into detail, but it's really a combination of them being in the system, and Connor WITH that gimmick for years, long predating HHH and the gimmick being tweaked slightly when they hit the main roster to make it even more painful. I don't think it was ever a positive part of NXT, mind you but I liked it more when it was Connor, Primo, and Eddy's daughter. I think, frankly, that they continued to get pushed almost to justify the time already put into them more than Triple H being super high on them or anything. They're not the people he talks about in interviews or on conference calls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stomperspc Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 The thing when comparing Ross and Triple H in their scouting/development roles is that they operated in totally different wrestling environments. You can even add Johnny Ace into the discussion. Ross had WCW and ECW around for much of his tenure and had guys that WCW (and ECW) developed available for his entire tenure. Ace had the last remains (if any) of WCW/ECW and an indie scene that was still developing at the start but was pretty mature by the end . Triple H was given the head of talent relations title in 2011 and had the indie scene as his main source for established talent. Ross started pre-US MMA boom so in theory at least, he would have had a wider range of top flight amateur wrestlers interest in pro wrestling. Ross also had the job during a hotter period for wrestling than the other two. However, Ace was right after the last hot period in theoretically he should have benefited from it a bit as well. There were plenty of high school kids during the Attitude Era who would have been coming of age in the 2004 time frame to potentially be recruited. Ross definitely had some advantages the others had. I think the MMA point bears out as it is almost impossible to imagine Angle and Lesnar going straight to WWE if they had come along a few years later. That’s only two guys out of a bunch Ross brought in, however. Ross had WCW and ECW around to develop guys and pluck them when the time was right to move to WWF, which Triple H and Ace didn’t have. The increase in profile of the US indies has offset that impact somewhat, but not a whole lot. Ross picking guys like Edge, Christian & the Hardys out of the indies should count for something. The indie scene was different than, those guys didn’t have significant connections, and they didn’t have the physical attributes that tend you noticed. Those were good pickups. Realizing there was potential in guys like Crash Holly and Val Venis (who weren’t exactly can’t-miss-guys while working California indies and CMLL, respectively) is deserving of credit. Just because guys worked somewhere else before doesn’t mean the guy doing the hiring doesn’t deserve credit for recognizing their potential. I do think it is much easier for them to identify indie talent now. It is really easy to pin point the top guys. Regal can go to PWG or whatever, see 10 top indie guys in one night, and send back a report. They can bring those guys in a work them out. If someone in the talent department is so inclined, they can hop on You Tube and watch matches of wrestlers they are interested in. It is not like Ross could take a trip to a super indie in 1997 to catch Edge and the Hardys on the same show. He couldn’t get on You Tube and watch some OMEGA. There were advantages Ross had that Triple H didn’t but the opposite is also true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 Wasn't Slaughter the big indy scout during the Ross era? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 The Ascension predate HHH being super hands on by a year or two I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bierschwale Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 It seems weird to credit JR with finding the Hardys, They had already been regular jobbers as teens up and down the east coast by '96. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pantherwagner Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 If anything Ross deserves credit for seeing something in skinny 16 year old kids brought by the Italian Stallion as a con to make money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 If anything Ross deserves credit for seeing something in skinny 16 year old kids brought by the Italian Stallion as a con to make money. I'd give Russo the credit for seeing enough in them to push them. That would've been more his call than Ross's. They didn't get real contracts until the Attitude Era or thereabouts, from what I remember reading in the Hardys book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregor Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 If that's actually how it happened, then Ross at the very least deserves credit for locking up two unsigned guys whom Russo was somehow permitted to push. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Guitar Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 If that's actually how it happened, then Ross at the very least deserves credit for locking up two unsigned guys whom Russo was somehow permitted to push. Plus The Hardy's real push came after the ladder match at No Mercy, which was after Russo had left. So Chris Kreski probably deserves some props for how they turned out. As far as JR signing guys like Edge, Christian, Val Venis etc. They may have been working indie's/Mexico, but they weren't really on anyone's radar, except for the most hardcore fans. The top indy guys at the time were people like Reckless Youth, Ace Darling & Devon Storm who were working the North East independents. Its not like JR was cherry picking the top independents at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted February 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 Wow, it's not going to help Hunter's rep in the business world when WWE has to post a job that more or less breaks down to "do the Executive VP's job for him 24/7 while he pretends he is the one doing all the work". Not to mention there's no way whoever gets that job makes it two years before burning out and/or running into the street screaming from stress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 Wasn't VP of Operations Jim Barnett's job title in the WWF in the '80s? Ain't what it used to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Guitar Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 Wasn't VP of Operations Jim Barnett's job title in the WWF in the '80s? Ain't what it used to be. And when Barnett came back after WCW closed, he was one of the guys suggesting that they push Cena as a top guy when Vince and co didn't see anything in him and were going to release him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamthedoctor Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Ascension has been around in one form or another for years. ah. i just meant that gimmick in particular but thanks! really it's the combination of that look with the level of push they got in NXT that makes the whole thing so corny for me. i can't help but compare them to LOD and such. If the Outlaws has out right refused to do the job at the Rumble who would the Assention have been booked to wrestle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheapshot Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Ascension has been around in one form or another for years. ah. i just meant that gimmick in particular but thanks! really it's the combination of that look with the level of push they got in NXT that makes the whole thing so corny for me. i can't help but compare them to LOD and such. If the Outlaws has out right refused to do the job at the Rumble who would the Assention have been booked to wrestle? Why would the of refused to job? What an odd statement to make in 2015. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamthedoctor Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Ascension has been around in one form or another for years. ah. i just meant that gimmick in particular but thanks! really it's the combination of that look with the level of push they got in NXT that makes the whole thing so corny for me. i can't help but compare them to LOD and such. If the Outlaws has out right refused to do the job at the Rumble who would the Assention have been booked to wrestle? Why would the of refused to job? What an odd statement to make in 2015. I dunno. Outlaws/Assention was just a dull match. Just wondering if the Outlaws hadent been booked who they could have used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheapshot Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Ascension has been around in one form or another for years. ah. i just meant that gimmick in particular but thanks! really it's the combination of that look with the level of push they got in NXT that makes the whole thing so corny for me. i can't help but compare them to LOD and such. If the Outlaws has out right refused to do the job at the Rumble who would the Assention have been booked to wrestle? Why would the of refused to job? What an odd statement to make in 2015. I dunno. Outlaws/Assention was just a dull match. Just wondering if the Outlaws hadent been booked who they could have used. They could of used anyone they wished who's under contract. Not sure how else I could answer this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chief Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Who are the Assention? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Probably the Fabulous Kangaroos or possibly the Medics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.