Eduardo Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 Dave keeps mistakenly referring to HBO when he should be saying Showtime for those "All Access" shows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 Going back to "Ronda turned heel"... well she pretty much says so here: Doesn't say that she plays a heel, like Chael would cop to. Just said (i) she liked wrestling heels like Piper, and (ii) always was booed in her international judo career. Wildly different from Chael playing a bullshit Character to get over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 The fact that Dave doesn't view himself as "within the [wrestling] box" is hilarious to me. It's also kind of funny that he always points to Boxing and MMA as being the outside of the box to study for Pro Wrestling, when those two things draw flies compared to the real big business / genres in Sports and Entertainment. Peyton Manning averaged 26.4M viewers per game for his four NBC appearances. That's not counting his drawing on other networks, like 28M+ on CBS against the Cowboys, or 27M on Fox against the Eagles, or 26M against the Giants, etc. Hunger Games: Catching Fire all on its own is going to make more in revenue world wide than the WWE... more than the WWE and UFC combined in 2013. Now granted, I'm not sure that the WWE wants to their content to be like Hunger Games, and the last time they had someone as over as Peyton Manning was Hulk Hogan in the 80s (because frankly even Stone Cold wasn't *this* over). But... It's likely that the WWE can learn as much from other forms of Sports and Entertainment than Boxing and MMA when it comes to promoting product, shooting their product, producing it, connecting with their fan base, having a sense of what's getting over with people in the country right now, and how to connect with their business partners... rather than just obsessing about Boxing and MMA. After all, the NBA this year is going to sign a new set of TV contracts that crushes what the WWE is going to get, and puts into context what a pot to piss in UFC is relative to big time sports. You just... mighta... sorta... wanta... broaden your horizons beyond the small bubble of Combat Sports and Fake Combat Sports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 The fact that Dave doesn't view himself as "within the [wrestling] box" is hilarious to me. It's also kind of funny that he always points to Boxing and MMA as being the outside of the box to study for Pro Wrestling, when those two things draw flies compared to the real big business / genres in Sports and Entertainment. Peyton Manning averaged 26.4M viewers per game for his four NBC appearances. That's not counting his drawing on other networks, like 28M+ on CBS against the Cowboys, or 27M on Fox against the Eagles, or 26M against the Giants, etc. Hunger Games: Catching Fire all on its own is going to make more in revenue world wide than the WWE... more than the WWE and UFC combined in 2013. Now granted, I'm not sure that the WWE wants to their content to be like Hunger Games, and the last time they had someone as over as Peyton Manning was Hulk Hogan in the 80s (because frankly even Stone Cold wasn't *this* over). But... It's likely that the WWE can learn as much from other forms of Sports and Entertainment than Boxing and MMA when it comes to promoting product, shooting their product, producing it, connecting with their fan base, having a sense of what's getting over with people in the country right now, and how to connect with their business partners... rather than just obsessing about Boxing and MMA. After all, the NBA this year is going to sign a new set of TV contracts that crushes what the WWE is going to get, and puts into context what a pot to piss in UFC is relative to big time sports. You just... mighta... sorta... wanta... broaden your horizons beyond the small bubble of Combat Sports and Fake Combat Sports. All this is true but I don't blame people like Meltzer (wow does the guy hate his fans or what?), for sticking to this smaller bubble. Yes you have Peyton being on top of the world as is LeBron James, yes the Hunger Games is killing it in the B.O., but how can you translate that in pro wrestling terms? Have 11 guys come in the ring and get heat on the other 11 guys? The fact is combat sports are easier to grasp as pro wrestling concepts. "See, Ronda Rousey turned heel with the snub!" Next thing you see, Natalya Neidhart wins the Divas Championship and refuses a handshake from AJ Lee. Bam, easy as that. The problem Dave doesn't quite get is... pro wrestling fans don't want this shit. They want the soap opera shit and the good wrestling shit. That's it. Dave is trying to push bratwursts with sauerkraut when all these people want is just a beef frank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzombie1988 Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 Hey Hunger Games is a ripoff of the much better Battle Royale... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 If I was to judge by the letters I get from people who renew mail subscriptions, the vast majority say they want more MMA and less pro wrestling. Maybe it's just the people who write letters and can spell, I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death From Above Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 Even that is a self defeating argument. "As I cover less wrestilng and more MMA, my subscriber base that remains says they like it". Well yeah, because the people that don't have given it up by now. This isn't exactly advanced marketing theory here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 5578510[/url]'] Hey Hunger Games is a ripoff of the much better Battle Royale... Holy shit... AGREED!!! Battle Royale is one of the most disturbingly beautiful films I have ever witnessed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 The novel is even better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Ewiak Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 Even that is a self defeating argument. "As I cover less wrestilng and more MMA, my subscriber base that remains says they like it". Well yeah, because the people that don't have given it up by now. This isn't exactly advanced marketing theory here. Business wise, it works. If I had to guess, with the website and everything else, Dave's probably been never more successful. As other people have pointed out, there's always something Dave covers that a small minority bitch about. People complained about Dave covering lucha in the 90's, just for one example. Also, the amount of MMA coverage is based on the news that's happening. Around Wrestlemania, MMA will hardly be mentioned Around the biggest UFC show of the year, it'll be mentioned a lot. I don't really care about a third tier Invicta PPV recap. So, what do I do? I fast forward or zone out for a few minutes. It's not the end of the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Ridge Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 So like Vince with using wrestling in Wrestlemania if Dave could do things over would he call it the MMA Observer Newsletter? I think my initial reaction was to be annoyed by this but I'm not a subscriber so if he is putting out the newsletter content to the target paying audience then good for him. When I did subscribe I use to hate those issues that started off with a UFC/Pride show recap. Was like get to the damn wrestling already. Though I won't pretend to say it was the only reason I stopped subscribing as I was just down on wrestling to keep following newsletter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilclown Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 Keep in mind the UFC has peaked and failed to create the next generation of pay per view stars. It's not like he's talking about a white hot promotion. He's propping up a stagnant business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 I don't know why he spends so much time defending his coverage. Two sentences and be done with it: "I've covered it from the start, going back twenty years. More of my readers over the year have enjoyed the coverage than disliked it." He doesn't need to go beyond that. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Log Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 I've never been a subscriber, so I honestly ask: why would anyone subscribe at this point? Pretty much every piece of news is all over the internet minutes after it's posted. From all accounts, the podcast is pretty terrible. Is it the obits? Is there something worthwhile that I just don't know about that you get with a sub? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzombie1988 Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 I've never been a subscriber, so I honestly ask: why would anyone subscribe at this point? Pretty much every piece of news is all over the internet minutes after it's posted. From all accounts, the podcast is pretty terrible. Is it the obits? Is there something worthwhile that I just don't know about that you get with a sub? I enjoy: - The newsletters: Don't care if the news hits other sites, I like seeing it in full. They deserve the money anyway. - The podcasts: Fills up tons of time on boring days and I am usually entertained by them. I also like the live podcasts as I tend to listen to them more often than I would if they were taped. - I like getting to ask questions to them and to stars when need be. I honestly don't see why more people don't subscribe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted January 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 I've never been a subscriber, so I honestly ask: why would anyone subscribe at this point? Pretty much every piece of news is all over the internet minutes after it's posted. From all accounts, the podcast is pretty terrible. Is it the obits? Is there something worthwhile that I just don't know about that you get with a sub? When news hits the Internet, it usually gets reworded and I find that sometimes the meaning is lost. The Undertaker-Daniel Bryan stuff is not *quite* how it was written in the WON, as one example. Also, access to the archive of WONs is awesome, and I like being able to search Dave's message board posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 I was a subscriber and don't feel like it's worth my money anymore. I've mentioned that I can't really stand Alvarez the personality so I avoid most of the site content aside from WOR with Dave and the WON. The Bryan and Vinny show is just terrible. Why anyone would want to listen to a 30 something man talk to his grandmother about random bullshit is beyond me. The message board is possibly the worst I've ever seen. I haven't been there for a year or so, but maybe it's changed. Considering they had/have a thread about oogling underage girls, I doubt it. That's two strikes. Lately WOR is becoming useless and at times annoying. Shit like that awful TNA "should they try" exchange and Dave just comes across as a curmudgeon about anything wrestling related that's not NJPW. So everything, but the WON is of no value to me and I don't think the WON alone is $10.99. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted January 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 I think those are valid points. Someone also recently mentioned that a membership will soon be more expensive than the WWE Network, and this is right after prices were raised by $1 per month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilclown Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 What's interesting to me is how engaging Bryan and Dave are in person. And Dave can easily be pulled into interesting wrestling conversation. But the two aren't necessarily good for each other. It's two negative people who convince themselves that not liking things is the sophisticated position to take. They need to break up that tag team and try something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 What's interesting to me is how engaging Bryan and Dave are in person. And Dave can easily be pulled into interesting wrestling conversation. But the two aren't necessarily good for each other. It's two negative people who convince themselves that not liking things is the sophisticated position to take. They need to break up that tag team and try something else. I'm not trying to say Bryan is some kind of intentionally bad influence, but whenever Meltzer is interviewed or talks wrestling with someone else, he really does come across much more positive and differently. I should have put current day wrestling. While I understand that modern stateside wrestling can be frustrating, I just don't think it's as bad as they make it seem to be at times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted January 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 It's funny that that's the perception because I think Dave is too kind to modern WWE and not nearly critical enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilclown Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 What's interesting to me is how engaging Bryan and Dave are in person. And Dave can easily be pulled into interesting wrestling conversation. But the two aren't necessarily good for each other. It's two negative people who convince themselves that not liking things is the sophisticated position to take. They need to break up that tag team and try something else. I'm not trying to say Bryan is some kind of intentionally bad influence, but whenever Meltzer is interviewed or talks wrestling with someone else, he really does come across much more positive and differently. I should have put current day wrestling. While I understand that modern stateside wrestling can be frustrating, I just don't think it's as bad as they make it seem to be at times. Absolutely they play off of each other in a bad way, creating a spiral of negativity. The obsession with whether or not wrestling angles are "logical" has killed their ability to enjoy anything about the sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoo Enthusiast Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 What's interesting to me is how engaging Bryan and Dave are in person. And Dave can easily be pulled into interesting wrestling conversation. But the two aren't necessarily good for each other. It's two negative people who convince themselves that not liking things is the sophisticated position to take. They need to break up that tag team and try something else. I'm not trying to say Bryan is some kind of intentionally bad influence, but whenever Meltzer is interviewed or talks wrestling with someone else, he really does come across much more positive and differently. I should have put current day wrestling. While I understand that modern stateside wrestling can be frustrating, I just don't think it's as bad as they make it seem to be at times. Absolutely they play off of each other in a bad way, creating a spiral of negativity. The obsession with whether or not wrestling angles are "logical" has killed their ability to enjoy anything about the sport. Absolutely. Also, every single active wrestler has been "buried" so many times that I have no idea how they haven't all suffocated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Ewiak Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 I was a subscriber and don't feel like it's worth my money anymore. I've mentioned that I can't really stand Alvarez the personality so I avoid most of the site content aside from WOR with Dave and the WON. The Bryan and Vinny show is just terrible. Why anyone would want to listen to a 30 something man talk to his grandmother about random bullshit is beyond me. The message board is possibly the worst I've ever seen. I haven't been there for a year or so, but maybe it's changed. Considering they had/have a thread about oogling underage girls, I doubt it. That's two strikes. Lately WOR is becoming useless and at times annoying. Shit like that awful TNA "should they try" exchange and Dave just comes across as a curmudgeon about anything wrestling related that's not NJPW. So everything, but the WON is of no value to me and I don't think the WON alone is $10.99. They did recently put in force a TOS for the board and basically nuked the pics folder. I mean, it's still a board with hundreds of people on it, so there's always going to be idiots. But, I find if you stay in Alan's section, you can get good info. If I was Dave and had seen as much awesome booking and wrestling as he has, I'd be a curmudgeon about most thing wrestling as well. Unless you think 2013 was full of fantastic booking from WWE or TNA? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 The Sin Limite shows with Dave and Semp are pretty good. Dave seems to be happier about things (granted that's usually because they do them when he's in the afterglow of the latest NJPW iPPV show), and Mike lets him expand and tell historical tales when Bryan seems to be watching the clock the whole time they do shows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.