Dave Meltzer stuff

[Cox]

Admittedly, this is some nitpicking and pro wrestling nerdery on my part, but it felt really weird to read this week's classic WON from 1993 and see that Dave and the WON fanbase had rated the Flair/Anderson vs Blonds match higher than the Windham/Scorpio match, when the latter has held up far better and is remembered better today.

[kjh]

Listening to Dave knock Homicide on his latest radio show (he didn't get screwed that bad in TNA, he didn't set the world on fire either, he was just a guy), makes me think he forgot how hot the LAX act was at their peak.

[kjh]

Dave Meltzer on karma for Kevin Nash:

 

My two favorite Kevin Nash stories were the time on live TV that he was doing a promo with Terry Funk, where he was the heel and Funk was the face. They had worked the promo out, then Nash totally went against the script, double-crossed Funk, Funk looked bad and then went to the back bragging about how he upstaged and left Terry Funk in the dust.

 

The second was for years he would brag in the WCW locker room about how given a chance, he'd do the same to The Rock. He said it so often, Rock knew the story. Then they actually did the promo, and Rock veered from the script and totally buried him.

[rovert]

Dave Meltzer on karma for Kevin Nash:

 

My two favorite Kevin Nash stories were the time on live TV that he was doing a promo with Terry Funk, where he was the heel and Funk was the face. They had worked the promo out, then Nash totally went against the script, double-crossed Funk, Funk looked bad and then went to the back bragging about how he upstaged and left Terry Funk in the dust.

 

The second was for years he would brag in the WCW locker room about how given a chance, he'd do the same to The Rock. He said it so often, Rock knew the story. Then they actually did the promo, and Rock veered from the script and totally buried him.

Im guessing Souled Out 2000 and backstage at No Way Out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xF7iX868Nzc

[kjh]

No, Dave's talking about Rock's infamous "Big Daddy Bitch" promo that happened later in the nWo's shortlived WWE run.

[rovert]

No, Dave's talking about Rock's infamous "Big Daddy Bitch" promo that happened later in the nWo's shortlived WWE run.

I stand corrected: http://www.411mania.com/wrestling/news/148...;-The-Rock.html

[goodhelmet]

It doesn't matter what Kevin Nash wanted to do... the Rock would have gotten the best of him in any situation.

[sek69]

So Dave is going over the HOF nominees this week in the WON, and I think he's pretty much just fucking with the British wrestling fans at this point. His bio of Big Daddy was barely two sentences and left the impression he was the Erik Watts of his day by pointing out he was a star when his brother was in charge of the promotion and that he was clearly the worst worker of all the nominees.

[kjh]

Even as a British wrestling fan, I think you're being far too harsh on Dave, given that he only said a couple of sentences about every candidate and what he said is what everyone brings up when discussing why they wouldn't vote for him.

 

On a completely different note, from Dave's Wednesday news update:

 

--WEC Vice President Peter "Dropkick" Dropick stated that comments made earlier in the week by Donald Cerrone "are not consistent with our company values" and the company will not "tolerate the use of slurs that may offend any segment of the public". The comments made by Cerrone on Monday on Tapout radio, in reference to his 9/30 fight with longtime rival Jamie Varner, was, "I'm just f**** fired up, and all I want to do is go out there and kill him. I want to come in that first round and just rip his face off. I don't want to come in and sit back and let him dictate it. hope my emotions drive me. I fight better on emotion. I hope my emotions take over and I just kill this dude. I hope this is the first death in MMA." Cerrone has since apologized, saying he got carried away and doesn't wish death of any opponent.

I do like how Dave missed mentioning Cerrone's use of the homophobic slur fag.

[Loss]

That would be the time to pull the trigger on the Cena turn, especially now that according to the last WON they are open to the idea.

[goodhelmet]

Has his merch dropped that much?

[jdw]

No, Dave's talking about Rock's infamous "Big Daddy Bitch" promo that happened later in the nWo's shortlived WWE run.

I stand corrected: http://www.411mania.com/wrestling/news/148...;-The-Rock.html

 

This whole thing of Nash talking shit for years, and then Rock fucking him over is great. This is Rock: he fucked with hardly anyone, and pretty much did whatever the promotion wanted compared to all the other assholes who played games. But even Rock thought Nash was a jackass, and fuck him over before Nash could pull shit with him.

 

John

[Cox]

The thing is, even if Rock didn't know it was coming and Nash did double-cross him, does anybody doubt he would have been smart enough to think on his feet and have a much better comeback than Terry Funk? I mean, poor Terry Funk was over 55 years old when Nash did that, and had suffered a ton of brain damage. Nash picked a pretty easy target there, as opposed to The Rock, pretty much the best promo guy of all time. Rock still would have turned that back around on Nash quick enough to make him look foolish.

[Loss]

Wasn't Nash also laying there laughing while getting pinned by Christopher Daniels years ago when working a UPW show?

[KrisZ]

I think personally Cena should use the fact of Legendary not doing good at the box office as the motivation for his heel turn. He could do this whole thing about how no one wants to take him seriously as an actor just an action star.

[Stuttsy]

That reminds me of the Billy Jack Haynes turn in Portland. "I opened a gym, you didn't come to it, you fat pigs"

[rovert]

Bryan Alverez keeps saying that WWE has major plans for Cole. Imagine Cole as Cena's manager and how epic that could be.

[kjh]

I'm not sure if it's Bryan or Dave to blame, but do neither of them get the irony of posting a letter castigating WCW for the Cactus Jack amnesia skits and replacing all mentions of WCW with TNA and Cactus Jack's amnesia with Samoa Joe's kidnapping, and how WCW is better off dead than keep the same people in charge. I mean the clueless idiot in charge of WCW then was the person responsible for turning the company around, though he had a large hand in subsequently tanking it too. Bit of a ham fisted comparison, as it only makes sense if you ignore that 1994-1998 ever happened, where WCW was largely profitable.

[Loss]

As bad as the exploding boat video and amnesia skits were, Vince Russo (and WWE, for that matter) have probably given us a dozen angles and segments from 1999-present that were just as bad, if not worse.

[Boondocks Kernoodle]

I'm not sure if it's Bryan or Dave to blame, but do neither of them get the irony of posting a letter castigating WCW for the Cactus Jack amnesia skits and replacing all mentions of WCW with TNA and Cactus Jack's amnesia with Samoa Joe's kidnapping, and how WCW is better off dead than keep the same people in charge. I mean the clueless idiot in charge of WCW then was the person responsible for turning the company around, though he had a large hand in subsequently tanking it too. Bit of a ham fisted comparison, as it only makes sense if you ignore that 1994-1998 ever happened, where WCW was largely profitable.

Bischoff wasn't really in charge then, and even if he had the power to determine what did and didn't get on TV, I believe it was Sharon Sidello who was behind the boat explosion mini-movie and Dusty who was behind the amnesia angle, and did he really want to tell either of them that their brilliant idea wasn't going to make it to television? At least we can see from this week's classic WON that Eric was something of a leveling influence back then, as he was the one who nixed the Col. Parker's Posse gimmick right before their scheduled debut.

[Loss]

It's still weird to me that someone who doesn't grasp really basic pro wrestling concepts like Eric Bischoff had as much success (and more failure, but he did have success) as he did.

 

I tend to think Dave is right in that he was just really surrounded by people who knew wrestling well, and listened to them. Plus, admittedly, he had a few positive qualities that most people in wrestling don't, namely that he's not a control freak who feels the need to put his fingerprints on everything, and he was willing to go with ideas that weren't completely his.

 

Vince is too proud to steal someone else's ideas, at least intentionally.

[rzombie1988]

Vince is too smart to admit to stealing others ideas.

[Johnny Sorrow]

Alverez complaining that the promos leading up for Mir/ Crocop were boring because they're about "I'm ready and He's got a reach, etc" and not Pro Wrestling promos is funny.

[Ditch]

9/20 WON:

Bryan worked a crazy weekend schedule, first wrestling on 9/10 in Puerto Rico where he first loss to Savio Vega when Bronco interfered in a non-title match, then after a challenge after Dennis Rivera beat Bronco via DQ, Bryan worked a second time, losing the IWA Puerto Rican title to Rivera. He then had to rush from Puerto Rico to the Northeast for an afternoon show where he beat Munenori Sawa in Rahway, NJ for Evolve on 9/11. The Sawa match was worked to look like a real fight, similar to Battlarts style with all the moves stiff and realistic. Sawa was said to be able to work the style at the same level as Bryan. The show did 350 fans. Gabe Sapolsky noted that you’d think Danielson being on the show would be worth 500 tickets and it wasn’t, and that three years ago, he thinks the same match would have sold 800 tickets.

What an odd statement from Gabe.

 

1. It isn't at all true. Sawa is only a fraction as 'over' with today's puro fans in the US compared to, say, KENTA in 2005/2006. Let alone a big name like Kobashi. Also, three years ago Sawa wasn't nearly as well known. Unless he means 'Danielson vs generic good Japanese worker', but even then, Sawa simply isn't viewed as a MOTY-type guy. Japanese wrestlers are helped by doing well in WON voting; Sawa hasn't done that, even though IMO he deserved to for a tag in 2008. In terms of who was available for EVOLVE to use, Sawa was a good choice, but that's the extent of it.

 

2. It isn't at all true in a way that makes the promotion look worse! The indy scene isn't down 50% from where it was; ROH just drew 1300 in NYC for instance. It's down some, but not enough to make up the difference between 800 and 350. In which case if it really would have done 800 three years ago, EVOLVE should have done closer to the 500 number he mentioned. In reality it wouldn't have done 800 three years ago, so EVOLVE doing 350 with no TV should be acceptable.

[kjh]

Gabe may have drawn better if he matched Bryan up with Jacobs or Quackenbush, you know, guys with more name recognition to the average indy fan.