The Thread Killer

I heard Corey Graves on Edge and Christian's podcast and while he was complimentary to Booker, it was also pretty obvious that he was making fun of his commentary and if you read between the lines, he was implying that Booker isn't all that great at his job. You could even make an argument that it sounded like Graves was implying that Booker isn't all that bright. Lord knows, he wouldn't be the first person to imply that. Here is the clip from Booker's podcast, it's around 4:00 minutes. After hearing it, I lean towards thinking there may be legit anger there (at least on Booker's part.) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOSLKrXfrLk

So apparently on his podcast, Booker T claimed that he has a beef with Corey Graves. He apparently blames Graves for his being removed from the Raw announce team, and says if he ever sees Corey on the street, he's coming for him, sucka. Is this a work, and leading up to something? Is it legit, and if so has anybody else heard anything about it via a reliable source?

I actually watched 205 Live last night for the first time in a very long time. I was curious if they were going to announce the new GM and the plans for the title. (Which they didn't, but whatever.) I kept watching because Gran Metalik was wrestling in the opener and I love that guy. The opening 6 man was okay. Nothing exceptional, but solid action. Then Hideo Itami fought Jack Gallagher. Oh boy. First off, I don't know why Gallagher is wrestling in street clothes, just because he is a heel now. Secondly, I don't know what happened, because the last time I paid any attention to Gallagher (which would have been during his angle with Neville, I guess) he seemed pretty popular and was getting some noticeable crowd reactions. We're not talking Road Warrior levels here, but he wasn't getting crickets, either. Now he is getting nothing. And I don't think it's just because he turned heel, either. He's not getting a negative reaction, he's getting nothing. I think this heel turn was a dumb idea, personally. I don't think people are going to buy Jack Gallagher as a "bad ass." Finally, I figured even though he has lost a step or two, KENTA would still be able to have a good match with Gallagher, considering the talent of both guys. Not so much. This match was boring, and the crowd was dead. There were some pretty loud BORING chants. I don't know if it is because of Gallagher's heel turn, I don't know if it's because KENTA has really gone downhill worse than I realized, or what the problem is...but this match was not so good. By the end of this, the crowd was pretty much out of it, so I thought. I kept watching, because I really like Cedric Alexander. I wasn't disappointed. Man, Cedric Alexander and Mustafa Ali did something I have very rarely seen two wrestlers do. They pulled a dead crowd back to life. By the end of this match, there were "This is awesome" chants, and loud cheers. On 205 Live! I was pretty shocked, to be honest. This was definitely the best match I remember seeing by the WWE Cruiserweights in a very, very long time and was probably the best non-CWC. non-PPV Crusierweight match I've seen in WWE. Definitely the best 205 Live match I remember seeing. I expected it to be okay, maybe even good...but this exceeded my expectations. This was a very, very good match. I am going to watch it again, because I am not sure if I am over-rating it because it surprised me. Sometimes, when a match I wasn't expecting too much from exceeds expectations, I tend to overrate them. So I want to watch it again, but if you can I would go out of your way to check this match out. It was damn good.

That was awful. I haven't watched Raw in months, but I thought I'd check it out due to all the nostalgia acts and it being the go-home show for the Rumble. That show was a mess. If I was a fan who bought a ticket for the Manhattan Center I'd be wanting my money back too.

I thought the Rockers episode was somewhat dry, but I did end up laughing when Conrad recapped the number of times Marty Janetty was fired and re-hired. Even Bruce said only The Iron Sheik nears Marty's record for comings and goings. Also thought the 98 Royal Rumble episode from this past week was pretty good. I found it humorous that they spent 75% of the episode discussing the episodes of Raw before and after the actual PPV, and very little time re-capping the actual show. Next week is a watch-along, which I will probably skip.

Gotta love Vince being able to turn "Thank You Vince" chants into "Asshole" chants on a dime.

I would like to officially reverse my position on Enzo living his gimmick.

I am a big fan of the Breaking Kayfabe series, as I discussed earlier in this thread. I actually paid for the episodes with Sabu and New Jack, but you couldn't pay me to watch that crap. He's basically trolling people at this point. At least Oliver calls him on it, to a degree.

Exactly. If there was ever a guy in this "new era" that lives his gimmick, it's Enzo A'more. I think wrestling could use more of that, actually.

I always thought Seth Rollins kind of deserved the shit he got for being reckless and injuring people (including himself, I guess.) He broke Cena's nose, he gave Sting the turnbuckle bomb that ended his career and threw Finn Balor into the barricade and fucked up his shoulder so bad he was out for 9 months. (Which looking back, kind of ended up being the end of Balor's main event push.) I know "it's not ballet" and accidents happen, and okay once or even twice is a mistake but three big injuries involving the same guy? Not sure I buy that as a coincidence. All three guys (Cena, Sting and Balor) were quick to absolve Rollins of blame, which seems to be standard practice...but Bret Hart was one of the guys who came out and said he thought Rollins was too reckless.

If these news reports are to be believed, Paige's in-ring career is over.

WWE is saying that Joe's injury is a plantar fascia rupture, which is not good news. That's the tissue on the bottom of his foot. There is nothing that can be done surgically to repair that from what I have heard. It is a very slow healing injury. He'll be able to walk normally within a few weeks I would imagine, but athletic competition could be months away. I would think the Rumble is definitely out for him, and Mania might also be off the table which would be heartbreaking, since he didn't get to compete last year either.

I was really into in e-fedding for a long time. I was a member of The Shoot Project for years, and ran my own fed for a couple of years as well. I always played in feds that used original characters, not established or existing wrestlers. I handled the same original character for around 10 years, believe it or not. My experience was that you need a committed roster of around 25 players to make a fed workable and it got to the point where that got impossible to maintain after a while. You need players who are willing to put in the work, and not just write promos but help with matches, etc. Most of the people I wrote with "grew out of it" and fell off. The ones who are left are still with a fed called the EWA and I've come close a few times to picking it up again with them, but I never have. I love writing fiction and I love wrestling so it always was a great creative outlet for me, I miss it at times. I don't know if I could do it again due to my weird work schedule (I work a 12 hour continental shift pattern) so I don't know if I could meet the deadlines that usually come with e-fedding.

I have no proof of this of course, so it's pure speculation on my part, but I'd tend to call bullshit on that story. From everything I have ever read or heard, Raymond was the Rougeau Brother that you did not want to fuck with. I am 99.9% sure I remember hearing that Raymond actually had some amateur boxing experience as well. Even if Dynamite Kid and Raymond got into a fight, I don't think DK would have "cleaned Raymond's clock." I think Jacques was the one with the big mouth who was more liable to get negative attention from the other wrestlers. Not to mention as Phil pointed out, the Bulldogs were the ones who were universally known for shaving people's heads and eyebrows and stealing and destroying their property and clothes. Sounds fishy to me. Considering all the time that has passed, you would have figured that story would have come out by now if it was true, like most locker room fight stories tend to. (Dick the Bruiser vs. Brody, Spivey vs. Adonis, etc.) Not to mention, I am sure DK would have gladly crowed about it in his book, since he had no issues burying the Rougeaus or talking about what a big badass he was. If it had happened, that is where he would have talked about it.

Yep. Really, the whole Montreal crew story is fascinating and remains a story to be told (not sure the Pat Laprade book talks about this part of the story, I haven't read it). An 8 Part mini-series called "Bad Blood" about the Montreal Mafia recently aired here, starring Anthony LaPaglia and Paul Sorvino. It was interesting and I really liked it. It didn't touch any of the wrestling stuff, but it did get into just how much the mafia had their fingers in a ton of pies in Quebec. I should check out that book, assuming it's in English. My French is so bad it would take me about a year to read it, otherwise.

Apparently SPS and I answered the same post at the same time. I never heard that the mob actually had Billington's address. Creepy.

Close, but you're confusing two of his (many) backstage feuds. He was trained in England by a guy named Ted Bentley. After Dynamite made it big, he brought his trainer backstage and introduced him around to all the boys. Apparently, everybody in the locker room was very nice and accommodating (DK makes specific mention of Andre being nice, IIRC) with the exception of one Brutus Beefcake, who was rude, refused to give an autograph and blew Mr. Bentley off. Dynamite knew that he and Davey Boy had a cage match against The Dream Team coming up, and he was apparently planning on exacting terrible revenge in the cage, but before that could happen he suffered the back injury that pretty much ruined his career, in a match against Orton and Muraco. With Jacques, DK claimed that Vince asked him not to retaliate out of fear of the Rougeau's "making a phone call." Billington claims he agreed under the condition that the Rougeau's paid for the dental work he needed to fix his teeth. Raymond agreed, so the beef was supposedly squashed at that point, and after that the two teams were kept far, far away from each other. In his book, he makes it sound like the Bulldogs left the WWF not that long afterward, but I'm not sure how true that is. I know the Iron Sheik (I know, I know) claimed in one of his many shoots that after Jacques knocked out Dynamite's teeth, he lost a lot of the shine on his reputation as a tough guy in the locker room, which bothered him tremendously. I remember a lot of other wrestlers saying he was never the same again after that, because he had been such a bully, but Jacques knocked his teeth out and he never retaliated, so it really bothered him and drove him nuts.

I know about the stories of Dino Bravo getting whacked for smuggling cigarettes and not paying his tribute. (I love mafia lingo.) I also know about International Wrestling and Gino Brito being supposedly controlled by the Cotroni family. I was referring to Jacques and Raymond's uncle Jean (aka. Johnny) Rougeau being in bed with the Cotroni family when he used to promote All Star Wrestling. The rumors of Rougeau family mafia ties were so strong that after Jacques knocked out all of Dynamite Kid's teeth, Vince McMahon reportedly discouraged Billington from taking their real life dispute any further, out of fear about what he had heard about the Rougeau "family ties." (Pat Patterson was still Vince's right hand man back then, and he knew damn well about the rumors in Montreal.) Billington talks about that in his book, and several other wrestlers have alluded to it or come right out and said it in shoot interviews over the years. If I am not mistaken, in his 2004 RF Video shoot, Jacques pretty much admits it. All I'm saying is that if a member of the Rougeau family made money in business, especially construction or real estate, I'd wonder where the money came from. But I wouldn't wonder that out loud in the wrong company.

He's a Rougeau. Mob ties really help financial security too. Not that I think the Rougeau family is tied into the Montreal Mafia. I would never ever say that. (I live within driving distance and don't need a visit from Rock Machine MC.)

I should have listened. Tepid doesn't even begin to describe it. It wasn't all that great, no. I wasn't too upset, because I went into that particular episode with very low expectations. As I mentioned earlier, I didn't find Edge's career all that interesting, so I wasn't expecting a 5 hour podcast discussing him to be very intriguing either. The one thing I did find interesting is that Bruce didn't seem to have a problem disclosing the fact that Triple H and Shawn Micheals didn't see Edge as a Main Event guy and buried him behind the scenes to Vince. It's so rare that Bruce is willing to admit that Triple H buried anybody or held them back in any way. I also enjoyed Bruce's re-telling of Vince's response to Shawn Micheals claiming Edge wasn't over. ("Okay, so go get him over!") This week's episode regarding Goldust was a bit more interesting. The main thing I found interesting was how much Dave Meltzer didn't like Goldust, or even the work of Dustin Rhodes. I had no idea Meltzer buried Rhodes that much in the Observer, it was funny to hear even Conrad asking what the hell Dave's problem was. Usually Meltzer bashing is the exclusive job of Bruce, but Conrad got in on it this week...with good reason.

If it wasn't for this board I don't know if I'd even follow wrestling anymore. I find myself becoming more and more alienated by the current "modern" product (with the exception of NXT) so it's really the discussions here and the ability to debate the sport (new and old) that keeps me engaged. There are some minor things about PWO I don't like, but you have to take the bad with the good, and the good far outweighs the bad. For the most part I respect and enjoy interacting with the majority of the members here. Happy Holidays to everybody. I hope you have an enjoyable, safe holiday and get to spend it with people you love.

Being blocked by Rovert just proves you're an intelligent person with smart, well articulated opinions. I'd wear that like a Twitter badge of honor. Speaking of Twitter...perhaps we should use this thread to share our Twitter handles, in the event that we want to follow one another. The only PWO member I currently follow is Loss. He tends to post a lot of pro-Trump, pro-NRA, Fox News inspired Right Wing propaganda on his Twitter feed, but I like him anyhow. ... Just kidding, Loss. I would like to follow guys like C.S., Mad Dog and others whose opinions and posts I tend to enjoy here at PWO, so what the hell, if you want to share your Twitter handle, please do so. As mentioned in my sig, I of course am @TheThreadKiller

I had a nice back and forth with Sabu via Twitter when I asked him about Dave McKigney. He can't spell to save his life, but he is actually pretty pleasant to fans on Twitter, as long you are respectful to him. He comes across as legitimately appreciative of fans. When I told him I used to drive down to Buffalo from Toronto because it was the only way to see ECW live, he actually thanked me. The first indie show I ever went to with Sabu on it (he fought Scott D'Amore and the show also featured a pre-WWF Edge and Christian as Sexton Hardcastle and Christian Cage) the promoter told me that Sabu would not speak with fans at all or sign autographs (not that I wanted one.) Back then he never cut promos or appeared out of character. His snarky and dickish behavior towards fans was pretty legendary at one point, no doubt modeled after his uncle's attitude towards fans. He eventually softened his stance on autographs, as he was selling autographed pieces of a broken table at another indie show I went to a couple of years later. Now he does podcasts and shoot interviews all the time, gives autographs, poses for pictures, answers questions and interacts with fans on Twitter. His attitude regarding interacting with fans has really changed over the years. Hell, he gives fans high fives on his way to the ring now. When he first broke in, if you touched him, he would literally attack you. I know the main reason he has mellowed out is for financial reasons - he makes money selling autographed merchandise now, but I get the impression he is generally a more relaxed person now. Perhaps because of the copious amount of pot he smokes. For the record, yes...I was the high vote for Sabu in the GWE.

What?! What the hell are you talking about? This Woken Matt Hardy stuff is gold. Gold, Jerry. Gold! I think him working against Wyatt is perfect, since it was obvious that somebody on the WWE writing staff was blatantly stealing stuff from the Broken Universe with the Wyatt Compound and the whole Wyatt/Orton feud. (In order to cover up the fact that it was a rip-off, they cleverly disguised their thievery by, you know...taking out the parts that were entertaining and good. But still.) I saw a rumor online today that this is leading to a fight between Bray and Matt at the Wyatt compound. Can you imagine what that will look like if Matt gets that kind of backdrop for his goofy antics. We may well see another dilapidated boat.

I agree, I found Bruce's take on the Katie Vick stuff to be really interesting. I listened to the entire Jake Roberts episode, and found it a bit of a letdown. Bruce couldn't give any insight to the recruitment and signing of Jake to the WWF, since Jake got there before he did. Aside from that, it was a lot like the New Age Outlaws episode which I also found underwhelming - it was basically Conrad reading a list of dates and events and Bruce throwing in the odd tidbit here and there. The episode had it's moments (especially if you enjoy the goofy banter between Conrad and Bruce, which I do now) but there was nothing new or interesting presented about Jake Roberts. That can also be attributed to the fact that, let's be honest - for a guy with a ton of skeletons in his closet, Jake Roberts has a lot of information about him out there. There was Beyond the Mat, during which Jake aired most of his family's dirty laundry, then there was Pick Your Poison, the WWE DVD project they did on Jake including a detailed documentary, and then just recently there was The Resurrection of Jake The Snake Roberts. If you've seen those three movies (like I have, as I assume most hardcore fans will have as well) then there is very little about Jake Roberts we don't already know. Or if there is, I don't think we'll be finding it out...and I'm not sure I'd want to know. Anyhow, the Jake episode is okay but it's unremarkable. I am looking forward to the Steiners episode (although I don't expect anything critical, as Bruce is good friends with Rick Steiner) and I am not really looking forward to the Edge episode at all. As much as I like Edge as a personality and podcast host, I didn't enjoy his career at all, and I don't see much there that would make for an interesting show anyhow. The Goldust episode could be good, if he wins the poll.