fakeplastictrees

The biggest thing between the two is that Cornette doesn't come off as a huge bigot. He has DEFINITELY had his moments, but they seem to come from temporary anger while Russo's comes from a deeper darker place of pure hate. I am not in any way justifying Cornette's stupid past remarks, but I do not see the PR nightmare happening with Cornette being brought back into the fold. Russo? Give it one year... From a pure 'wrestling' standpoint, WWE needs to feature more people with passion for the business and feature less of those who have nothing but contempt. This would be another point against Russo.

Vince Russo being back in WWE, even for Table for 3 type of things, is dangerous for a lot of reasons. However, With WWE setting the pro wrestling narrative going forward (at least in America), why not have a different opinion and outlook chime in? Its really interesting the balance between keeping crazy out of WWE and giving the crazy a platform that will allow for the expansion of ideas and conversation. Conversation is a major mechanism humans use to improve stupidity. I feel pro wrestling modernist believe in dialogue (though not overly enthused in some cases). We believe that different groups can discuss differences in a civilized manner and come to a resolution in some-shape-or-form. However, the pro wrestling post modernist are not so welcoming to alternative viewpoints. With that said, I still think Russo is dangerous because he is one of those 'challenge the facts' people which creates 'alternative facts' talking points. Again, this comes back to being in work mode 24/7/365. If Russo is willing to be honest--I would be more than happy to hear him, but if its the carny bullshit that has been spewed out over the years---no thank you! If Russo did come back, Vince would put him on 205 Live to 'shake things up'!

WM30 would have been the most infamous and heavily edited WM in WM and PPV history."Daniel Bryan" chants all night, Daniel (when he does appear) receiving the loudest reaction of anyone else on the card, and then of course Batista/Orton getting the biggest negative reaction in pro wrestling history. I can imagine the audio will be turned down during the main event and other production 'tricks' at play. Seeing the reply the following day would be VERY interesting for all the wrong reasons. Perhaps WWE, after suffering the embarrassment at WM and the following Raw, decides HHH is going to 'step-in' to prove that Bryan doesn't believe and so begins a WM like program (the lite version of it of course) that leads to Bryan winning the IC belt and playing the Macho Man to WWE's chosen Hulk Hogan (Reigns? Orton again? Does Batista stay?). Bryan would eventually be forced to retire and the fans are left wondering 'what if', while WWE kicks into pretending the company knew of Byran's health and thus decided against the fans wishes (and the company's org. plan) and was 'forced' to go with Orton/Batista as the main for Mania. Over time the fans begin to view it that way and Its Magnum all over again. Vince McMahon would continue to get huge face reactions in every arena he shows up.

WWE makes a lot of mistakes, but for the most part, the company always makes sure there are people coming out of development that have a five year plan. Even with Cena fired, Batista, Orton, Edge, Benjamin, and Lesnar were all there. Batista would have definitely been the man with Orton and Edge playing number 2 and three respectively. Cena would have been picked up by TNA as TNA loves anyone in WWE, but overall Cena would not develop even close to the level he is now as TNA has shown that the company has no idea how to properly elevate its wrestlers. I remember one year (6-7 years in) TNA was still marketing Sabin, Daniels, Kazarian as 'young lions looking to establish themselves'. Cena would have eventually been released from TNA when Nash, Booker T, Angle, Sting, Steiner, RVD, Hogan, etc. all showed up. I could see Cena doing some touring and getting a buzz and eventually being back in WWE. How would that play out? That' is anyone's guess. The scary thing to really think about is Batista's frequency of injury and him going into movies. It would essentially leave us with what we have today with Orton running around at the top with the title. John Cena however would be the 'Daniel Bryan' (to an extent obviously) as he would be a guy coming in from ROH, PWG, etc. who knows how to work and is a 'fresh face' compared to the over-stale Orton, Kane, Big Show, etc.

The true test is in the pigmentation. To a number of people Sami Zayn is 'white'. I have spoken to fans at enough events to get the feeling that "White guy from Canada" is thing. People assume the same of Seth Rollins and other people with heritage from the Middle East and its surroundings area. If you are from the Middle East and LOOK like you are from the Middle East (based on pro wrestling caricatures), then you are treated as such. However, if you have fair skin--you get a pass on all the xenophobic ridiculousness. If Sami Zayn, Seth Rollins, and others were just a little darker--I would venture to believe (based on WWE's track record), that the booking of those two will be much worse that it has been for the last two years or so. Jinder being champion is one step forward. The constant mention of his color, race, and ethnicity is two steps back. There are more levels to it, which I will address at a later time.

Yeah, I am not a huge Orton fan (or even a medium Orton fan), but I tried to keep some perspective. There were some other things I wanted to shared, but thought it best to help keep the pilot nice and soft without my 3 hour unfiltered thoughts. If I want to bore people...I have my own podcast!

Who are you talking about?

Should be a fun listen.

Not sure if it happened on the same day or not, but Victoria's leaked as well.

I do not believe that people should be forced to 'be themselves' and should instead have the choice to do so and the support as well. Pro wrestlers have had different hair styles over the years that (more often that not) were/are influenced by culture. I don't have a problem with that 100%, however, I feel as though some of the 'choices' made are rooted in oppression. I will go into further detail on a future episode of my podcast, However, I want to be clear that I am not advocating the 'policing' of anyone to do something deemed 'more natural' if its against that person's natural choice(s). At the end of the day, the women choose what to do, I just wonder how much of the choice ( obviously within the context of a work environment) is really limited due to the alternative thinking of most at the top.

Reading this thread has got me curious to check out the BRB again. Looking it up, apparently there have been 4 in WWE history. Re: HOH This didn't work for a ton of reasons and the main reason this didn't work for me is WWE's over-use of American horror tropes while blatantly ignoring subtlety and ramping up on eye-rolling ridiculousness. Randy Orton pulling up in a limo while wearing no shirt and COMPLETELY oiled up was the moment I knew the HOH was going to win the 2017 pro wrestling equivalent of a Razzie.

My brief take on the hair thing is this...WWE is both directly and indirectly communicating to its audience that long flowing hair is standard in presentation of its female performers which really steams from outdated (and sometimes racist) sexist attitudes towards women and the definition of beauty. This may not mean anything to some people but the euro-centric focus and application of that standard to women of color is pretty damning. I don't have an issue with wigs, hair pieces, etc. However, when a POC is told his/her entire life that his/her hair is wrong, nappy, and a host of other names--it leads to a culture of bad weaves and low self-esteem. A lost of oneself. Blackness hidden underneath 12 pounds of horse weave and all for what? To uphold one person's standard of beauty? One perspective? I would say talking about hair is less 'creepy' and more a topic worth discussing especially as it relates to how we perceive some of these women. Are we REALLY going to ignore the fact that WWE (at one time) wanted the majority of its female talent blonde? Are we going to ignore that naturally short haired women of color went on tv week-in-and-week out with hair flowing pass their ass and in part helping to continue to create that divide of young women being able to fully see themselves in their own heroes. And lord forbidden women of color had natural hair on TV...the insults were tossed around like water. I know a woman is more than her hair, however WWE has been sure to go out of its way to communicate that the hair is not only important, but very central to a woman's worth and positioning. The long flowing hair is a hold-out from the old Diva days with the overly done makeup and porn star like aesthetics applied. I think it goes without saying that I and others understand that pro wrestling is a cosmetic business and I am not 100% against wigs, etc. (as mentioned earlier), but to ignore and even pretend that the patriarchy sexism and gender relations in pro wrestling can just be excused as 'weirdos being upset'...well...its just not honest. Re: Roman Reigns Charles touched on this in the Payback thread and perhaps I should bring it over here as I would like to try my best (as best as I can) to ensure the Payback thread is mainly left to discuss the PPV. There has been a lot of talk recently about the fans reaction to Reigns at Payback in the days of his brother's passing. I'll get all my thoughts out in an upcoming podcast, but in short: I can think Heath Ledger is a fantastic actor and super cool dude, but that doesn't mean I want The Joker to blow up Gotham city. From the little I know about Roman Reigns, he seems like a cool guy. I have no problem with "Joe". I will go out on a limb and assume that well over 95% of the fans have no problem with "Joe". However, "Roman Reigns" is a different story. While we can sympathize with "Joe" and appreciate the fact that "Joe" showed up to Payback with his working boots, we as fans do not have to want him ( Reigns) to beat Braun clean, win the title the next night on Raw, and go on a 300 fight win streak. Now whether Reigns is Joker or Batman in your world, is up to you. I view him closer to Nolan's Dark Knight in terms of the shades of grey aspect. I am not going to bore everyone with a novel here and will go into more detail in a future episode of my podcast. The fact that Roman Reigns was booed on the post-Mania Raw and Vince McMahon was cheered has shown me that some of these 'passionate' fans have allowed themselves to be kayfabed into a work-shoot while thinking its a legit shoot. It really is fucking insane.

The footage is where its at. I am not sure if WWE, NJPW, AAA, or CMLL have even made offers to buy the name as the 'cache' people talk about do not translate into dollars. I cannot remember an indie show in the last 20 years that I was iffy about going to until I saw "NWA" attached to it. It really means absolute jack shit to the majority of modern fans. Wasn't the current owner ridiculed years ago when he made this purchase as he essentially purchased absolutely 'nothing'. Also, what does 'being a member' even mean in 2017? I can understand if this was the 70's, but in 2017 the majority of the hot indie acts are not tied to NWA and are not part of many (if any) NWA shows. I just don't get the appeal and lust over owning the name. The footage-- I completely understand--but the name? So what.

I don't think this is fair. I do not watch WWE religiously, but I had no idea Rosey and Roman were brothers until I scrolled down in this thread and did a quick google search. In this case, Knowledge is power, and WWE didn't (or at least I didn't hear/see it) hammer home the fact that Rosey and Roman were blood, etc. etc. Again, I may be 100% missing something, but this isn't a Bret/Owen thing or a Benoit/Guerrero thing as far as established on-air relationships are concerned.Its weird how this type of thing plays out on TV because crowd reaction depends on the performer's status, the information provided by the commentators and company overall, position on the card, and some other non-tangible factors.

I am 100% being WWE doing something new. I am not going to sit here and pretend Jinder is this super worker that has been setting the world on fire, but I am excited to see new and fresh faces at the top (assuming this isn't a one off). Its time for Orton to have his "John Cena Working With the Young Guys" phase and should stay as far away from Cena, Kane, Ziggler, and Wyatt. I would love to see Orton/Kingston fully explored and picked up from years ago. Is this going to be lucky 13 for Orton and he finds some magic and motivation or is this going to be old hat and boring as hell. Jinder winning the six pack challenge has me way too excited for change...damn "Indian Guy"~!

This makes it the 3rd or 4th time this has happened. Lesnar/Show, Henry/Show, Strowman/Show, and ???

"Working a gimmick"? Are we really using that? Listen, when the red light is on--okay fine! But this is real life. I am tired of wrestlers and wrestling personalities hiding behind the 'Terry Bolea/Hulk Hogan' shit that was done during the Gawker trial. Wrestling is such an interesting and self-loathing business that its kinda depressing. Can you imagine if any other artist/creator had the same disdain for his/her fans as pro wrestling & Russo? "Man, I can't believe all these kids love my Harry Potter series---there is only ONE WORD to describe them!" "Pretty long line for the new Star Wars film, I am glad I created it a long time ago, but its crystal clear that only CERTAIN PEOPLE enjoy this film." "That was a pretty smooth moonwalk just now. Berry Gordy, Diana Ross, Smokey Robinson, all the legends are out! But who are those people in the cheap seats? Oh! ITS THEM!". It just doesn't work. I understand we are in the Age of Trump where media personalities are shooting left and right, but in the wrestling world---aren't we all burned out of 'the shoot' gimmick? We've had our fill with the supersaturation of tasteless and crass ideas masquerading as edgy and brave in the late 90s and early 2000s. What's the end-game? He isn't generating more money or better opportunities because of this non-sense. But I will admit to being out of touch and I guess being able to 'work' the internet in your 50's and being the real life Pierre Delacroix is an achievement only few can really appreciate.

Yeah, I don't get it either. Either tell it or shut up. The passive aggressive stuff and the 'I have some news but I am not sharing it' stuff is really annoying. No one comes out looking good from it, especially the speaker. IF JBL is actually bullying people and is causing physical/psychological harm than why be coy about it and allow for someone else to suffer the wrath? But then goes beyond JBL and is just an overall problem with people I see online protecting despicable actions of people.

Why won't ESPN 'go after' WWE? The conspiracy theorist in me has...well...a theory! In November 2016, ESPN lost over 600,000 subscribers, in what turned out to be one of its worst month ever. People are cutting the cord and leaving ESPN behind. ESPN is what ours dads watch. Not us, we are watching things that are a bit cooler and less corporate. ESPN and WWE were both in a position where they 'needed' each other. WWE so it can get that mainstream appeal and fanfare the company has always wanted, while ESPN hopefully gets new fans and money coming in. Its win-win. However, Vince McMahon isn't stupid and most likely had ESPN sign some sort of North Korea like deal that essentially states that ESPN and WWE must work hand-in-hand in all products delivered. What does this mean? No hit pieces. Both companies need this and if shit ever goes south with Smackdown or Raw with USA--ESPN is right there. Not only are the companies engaged in mutual back scratching, but I also believe ESPN is testing the waters for new relationship and essentially using WWE as a prototype for these new relationships. ESPN, more now than ever, will become a vehicle for fluff pieces for the sport du jour and transition into the MTV of the sports world where there is less focus on what is assumed to be the bread and butter (sports) and more focused on sports-entertainment. What does that mean? That means ESPN showing The Wrestler (BOTH OF THEM~!), Thunderbox, MXC, having a morning kids 'Power Hour' by showing WMAC Masters and American Gladiators, etc. A special "Behind The Music" with sports stars like Allen Iverson, Kobe Bryant, Roy Jones Jr. discussing ONLY the music, albums, tours, etc. Another big crictism with ESPN over the year is that is has become ES(JW)PN with a nice liberal slant. Being in bed with pro wrestling will definitely begin to wipe that away in some respects. When there is this much ass kissing and no one is getting a blow job---someone is getting paid. Give it 5 years.

Total Divas is 100% guilty pleasure watching for me at times mainly to see what type of bullshit WWE will throw out as 'reality'. One of my favorite examples of this is an episode where Nattie may or may not have eaten a pot brownie and decides (out loud and while being filmed) to crash her car to avoid taking a drug test.

JFC. HARLEM HEAT~! Others I would like to see: British Bulldog Goldberg Vader The Dudley Boys Jushin "Thunder" Liger I would say Undertaker but I can see WWE waiting 1-2 more years before pulling the trigger on that.

Dolph at least knows how to play FIP and sell really well (mileage varies) when it comes time. Whether you are a Dolph lover or hater when he was done 3/1 at SS--he had the entire building in the palm of his hand. The Miz ladder match is another good example of Ziggler knowing when to 'do it right'. Rollins on the other hand---again---who the fuck goes for a TWO dead-lift powerbomb spots in a match where the story is all about a bum knee?

Yeah the show took a shit right after the mixed tag. I knew it was going to be bad--but BOY! did WWE pull out all the stops. Naomi winning and Goldberg/Lesnar were nice, but God surely turned his back on the earth as we were left to pay for our sins by enduring HHH/Rollins and Orton/Wyatt. Rollins/HHH had a story based around Rollins bad/questionable knee and yet Rollins was working like he was in a 2007 ROH main event with no issues at all. Who the hell attempts deadlift powerbombs on a bum knee? What about the attempting the same move that put him on the shelf? This match was not worked smart at all and because of that, it pulled me out a number of times as the knee became a forced narrative that went completely against what Rollins was trying to present the majority of the match. The less said about the 0-3 Mania record of Wyatt, the better. This one was the worse of all.

...but yeah me too. I think a lot of people did which is why the arena was so flat as people LEGIT didn't want to be disrespectful (or some shit). It was just too corny and John Cena as a character has jumped the final shark in my book.

That was so forced. I fucking hated it. It was drama with no soul. Completely hollow. At least HBK's day time soap opera level of acting made sense in the context of his WM24 match against Flair. The same cannot be said for this. The stakes weren't high enough. Is this how Taker really wanted to go out? Some slub fake crying and regrettable offense, etc.?