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Everything posted by EnviousStupid
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I've personally lost a lot of interest in AEW since All Out, however JAS vs. BCC is hardly a big reason why. Definitely has overstayed its welcome, and I'd love to not see Jericho wrestling guys like Bryan and Moxley, but things like FTR being kept away from TV, Eddie Kingston cooling off, the implementation of ROH titles/talent, and MJF being this terrible example of playing the cool kids' heel have done more to sour my perception of the company.
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I had to watch through all of the Duggan/DiBiase feud after seeing their incredible blowoff later in 1985 for the first time, which led me to another goddamn classic between the two. This is easily the best work I've seen from DiBiase, coming across more vicious and urgent than I can ever recall, while still maintaining that core chickenshit heel nature at every point in the match. It makes him such a great foil for Hacksaw, who looks like one of the all-time babyface territory aces around this time. He's certainly limited in what he can do, but the booking and compact match structure is able to accentuate the positives in his game. Moreover, Duggan might have shown the best example of punching blind, throwing straight jabs while falling backwards that immediately grabbed my attention. A fascinating level of detail to something that in hindsight, was only a tune-up for the big gimmick match down the road. It's sub-10 minutes and still delivers some incredibly compelling pro wrestling.
- 6 replies
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- Mid-South
- North American Championship
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I'm basically nodding at everything @ethantylerhas written out here. The strongest argument Ishii has come from the belief of him being a BITW-level worker for the last decade, and I don't think that alone gives him the edge over half of those Japan candidates.
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It's definitely one of Daniels' most attentive performances, especially during the first act. Lots of countering and taunting at AJ to go along with the focused limbwork, really highlighted their history as rivals over the years. Even if you aren't familiar with it, AJ's generally recognized as a bit of a hothead that can let his emotions get the better of him, which made things a lot more interesting when it turned out that Daniels was the one falling into that trap instead of AJ. For most of the match, I got the impression that they were trying different variations of their main offense, as the usual shtick from either would end up being reversed otherwise. Revisiting it after so long, I find myself agreeing with most of Sleeze's conclusions. One of the most rewarding TNA matches from that time period.
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New Japan making dozens of his matches free to watch has seriously made me reconsider my stance on him as a candidate. Most of my criticisms for him aren't really applicable to his 70s material, and that's probably when he was working most of his prime years. He's so great at directing where a match will go and how to maximize key moments in them. A wrestler that could make his style of wrestling look realistic (for the time), and then add highly dramatic elements on top that rarely break the tension that he had been building up. Moreover, the pacing and opponents from that time felt more suited to Inoki's strengths. The matches didn't feel like they went on too long because the variables were malleable enough and individual actions were treated like they held weight in the moment, regardless of whether they wound up playing a factor thereafter. Larger wrestlers like Murdoch and Andre could be imposing threats, but also allow their matches to breathe. It's a big difference between them and the likes of Hansen, Brody, Williams and even Choshu through the 80s, who'll force themselves as well as the action onto their opponents and potentially muddy the vision that someone like Inoki aspires to bring forth. In comparison, there's no such rush with these older matches. Even in a bloody, violent one like he has with Kintaro Oki (10/10/74), you get the classic start-stop approach from Inoki in the early periods, hard-fought grappling that looks legitimate, before the dramatics are brought to the forefront and the heat which had been sustained so far can finally be released for an exciting third act. I haven't bothered making a rough draft for GWE, but before his passing I would've pegged Inoki somewhere around the bottom half. Now, he's top 25 at least. Maybe I'll write something in the future that covers more ground, but I hope the few things I've put here can compel others to dive into his body of work.
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The first half was sleep-inducing. Really transparent attempt at heated brawling when you prioritize spot -> set-up -> spot so much in the layout. I guess that makes sense in retrospect given what we know about Shawn Michaels' input for this match. Gargano jumping over the barrier onto Ciampa immediately gave me the sense that it was closer to playfighting than what I want pro wrestling to look like. The second half was a major improvement though. The big moves felt warranted for a 2018 TakeOver match and made for some good nearfalls, even if it did go a tad overboard (Project Ciampa off the second rope meaning nothing in the long run, for example). Callbacks to a lot of their history together were really effective and hooked me back into the drama. Really liked how desperate and tense Ciampa got, as he felt like the one who actually projected the importance of this match as a whole. For me, it's in the same boat as Omega/Ibushi vs. The Young Bucks one month earlier as a really ambitious story-driven match that doesn't do it for me, but they have more good things than bad going for it. They do better in the rematch.
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Cole has been primarily a big match worker as early as 2014 and, in my humble opinion, has sucked at it since 2016 with that 2nd ROH World Title reign. Looking back through his NXT run, I'm stunned at how much he was loved by crowds in these matches that are emblematic of the common criticisms brought up about this time period of the brand in retrospect. The Gargano series, the Cole matches, Ciampa, Aleister, Ricochet, all the men's WarGames matches. Just flabbergasted at the moment.
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Something that's always stuck with me about Inoki's legacy as a beloved national icon is the slap. I'm sure we've all seen clips of Inoki slapping dozens of wrestlers, staff, and fans alike, all waiting in line to be touched by such a figure, but is there any other modern culture that treats a slap across the face as a blessing? Mexico? Europe? Even in Japan, who else is able to have that kind of act recognized with such reverence from the public?
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I'd go with Choshu, who was maybe the hottest thing in puroresu that year. Extremely strong work across singles, tags, and those NJPW gauntlet matches
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With how they're keeping the reign going for so long, I'd like to think they're wanting to put over a younger guy as potentially the next face, but I don't think anyone right now fits the bill. Big E looked like the best choice, but his future is still in question after that neck injury. If Drew was going to win, they would've done it at Clash. Sami was a generational babyface once upon a time, but I don't see him getting the rocket strapped onto him like it were still 2014. Riddle, Breakker, Bate are all options, I guess. I'm just not sold on any of them so far. Cody would be the one I bet on.
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WWE Brain: Defining and Changing the Melodramatic Narrative
EnviousStupid replied to fakeplastictrees's topic in WWE
And here I thought Road Dogg had made it official that wins and losses don't matter in the fed :) Would defending 50/50 booking also count when it comes to feuds? There are some obvious outliers even just this year (Cody beating Rollins on 3 straight PPVs), but to my knowledge it has always been associated with main-roster WWE. -
I find it funny that Bobby was always viewed as the tag guy in Undisputed Era, yet the best tags that group had were consistently with Kyle and Roderick.
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Personally, I think Ospreay was at his best as a Jr. Heavyweight working from behind against established NJPW stars. I'm probably in the minority of people who feel that way, but the style appeared to (at least initially) reign in some of the worst aspects of his performances that often got out of hand on the indies, while still emphasizing those athletic flips and dives that look genuinely outstanding. I don't think he ever really transitioned out of the acrobatics, just that he wants to be strike heavy alongside the high-flying offense. In theory I think that last part sounds a bit like Misawa, except I don't find it appropriate at all for Ospreay in practice. Hate the way he carries himself, groan at the way his matches all come across as Okada-like, loathe the overacting and his selling nowadays, care less and less for the big spots each time I watch them done, and have really despised how he's picked moves from various wrestlers to input into his finishing stretches, most recently teasing and even hitting the One-Winged Angel. Very frustrating wrestler, especially now that he's able to dictate the direction and pace of most matches he's in. To his credit though, he's one of 6 or so wrestlers to have over 100 matches with an average rating of >8.00 on Cagematch (the others I know of being Danielson, Chris Hero, ZSJ, Okada and Tanahashi). Maybe that fact will hold weight with some fans.
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WWE TV 08/29 - 09/03 Roman's Reign is in jeopardy
EnviousStupid replied to KawadaSmile's topic in WWE
Nice to see that when Seth isn't talking like the goofiest motherfucker possible, he can be detestable in a REALLY good way. Here's hoping for a home invasion in the coming weeks where 3 different women are supposed to be Becky in the background. -
I planned on revisiting all these NXT War Games matches after watching how the concept was used in WCW and paid homage to across various independents over the 2000s. In hindsight, that was probably the worst thing I could've done. This is a disappointing match on its own, but to call it War Games feel like an insult to its history. Match starts with three guys churning out clusterfuck moments devoid of emotion and in front of a silent crowd, like we're all just waiting for something worthwhile to happen. Undisputed Era are the only heels I can recall that get the advantage in War Games and still can't work a proper heat segment. AOP managed to elicit a few pops once they enter the fray, but it's clear by that point how soulless this entire affair is. Garbage spotfest where the cage is only there for people to jump off of. The introduction of weapons by Dain and Wolfe only reinforce this. No one can bleed because the stipulation is only here for marketing. The spots have all been seen and done before on WWE programming, probably without the wrestlers standing around to base for moves. You have Adam Cole kick out of the biggest moment of the night (superplex from the top of the cage) and the way he wins is with a Shining Wizard to Eric Young, who is basically holding a chair to his own face. Awful, awful stuff. Ages like milk. Excluding the women's one in 2019, I have zero expectations for these knock-offs.
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- the authors of pain
- akam
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Neither Roddy nor Riddle are guys who I'd call myself a big fan of, but they pull off a pretty organic heel/face dynamic from the opening grapple. Riddle has the size and skill advantage on the mat, consistently able to apply submissions that leave Roddy scratching and clawing for a rope break. Meanwhile Roddy is easily the harder striker of the two, which comes into play really well with the several combinations he puts together in his offense, mostly targeting the ribs and back of Riddle that commentary reminds us of were damaged sometime before the PPV. It's that kind of tenacity on display that helps Riddle look genuinely sympathetic in spite of his outlandish personality. If I was to really fault anything here, it's that I thought the wrong person won. Riddle never felt like he adapted to Roddy's gameplan or outmatched him during the finishing stretch, and even his high-risk attempts ended up with him eating a couple knees to the back. Hitting some weak elbows followed by lifting Roddy up for that shitty Tombstone Press Slam to win just wasn't my cup of tea.
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Greatest British Wrestlers Ever
EnviousStupid replied to EnviousStupid's topic in Greatest Wrestler Ever
My bad. I've been confused for the last hour as to what constitutes as British, as someone who's clearly not from that part of the world. -
Recently a list of Ariel Helwani's top 10 British wrestlers of all time was posted on various WWE accounts: While I find quite a few placements very interesting, it got me thinking what a list would look like from more experienced wrestlers like those on sites like PWO. Other questions popped up while thinking about it further: Is WOS where the majority of Britain's greatest wrestlers lie? How would the likes of Ospreay, McIntyre, PAC, Sabre Jr., etc. fare when stacked against other generations & eras? I'd be interested if anyone here has some kind of list already in mind, or even a group of names that stand out in regards to the best from Britain.
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This was Bryan's return match after his injuries sustained in the Anarchy in the Arena match two months ago. There was a lot of hype surrounding this match, and rave reviews made it sound like one of the best matches from 2022 so far. Unfortunately, I'm in the minority when it comes to this. I think there's a lot of great ideas packed into it that I can admire, but a lot of what's done from both men actively frustrated me. For example, they play to the idea of Bryan not being at 100%, the past head trauma that initially had him retire, even commentary pointing out that Bryan may have suffered a concussion after hitting a missile dropkick and landing flat on his back. It's clearly effective going off of how the live crowd reacts, but from my view, there's a handful of issues that just kill my investment to the story. For one, I'm not a fan of Bryan's selling here after the first instance of a potential head injury. I can see the appeal of Bryan harkening back to his offense/comeback during his WWE tenure, only to fail him as he's gotten older, but he's landing his signature backflip, and it's only when he hits the ropes that he collapses. He also takes a DDT onto the exposed floor a little over 5 minutes into the match. It's sold well in the moment - unable to stand on his own, blood emanating from his forehead, giving Garcia plenty of time to work over the cut - however it gets egregious once Bryan is into his comeback. No pause of grogginess from Dragon until after he's thoroughly kicked the crap out of Garcia. Manages to stand up while a Sleeper hold is applied. A bridging Tiger Suplex and Regalplex executed without flaw. The high risk maneuvers he tries don't leave a mark on that head injury. It's not about having to commit so hard to an angle that you can't do any of these actions, but this is a lot done in a single match that stands out in my eyes. And of course, the ending with Bryan passing out to a submission again, this time a Sharpshooter, is starting to be a recurring trend that I am not happy about. As for Garcia, I'm not really sure how he looks better coming out of this exclude just the victory on paper. His work during the heat wasn't particularly vicious or eye-catching; more scratching and biting at the forehead every so often, taking his time during the heat. More concerning though, is when the match asks him to show remorse, or have a conflicted look on his face at key points. Garcia is a great young wrestler, but he's never been a very emotive one. He's very rarely, if at all demonstrating that degree of emotional depth in his performances. I'd go so far as say his defining characteristics as a wrestler are his intensity and sternness brought consistently to his matches, even when paired with the likes of 2point0. So in a situation like this, where it asks him to put on a different face than usual, the drama falls flat, and if Excalibur hadn't been explaining it on commentary, I probably wouldn't have picked up on it. Furthermore, when comparing to Bryan's own offense, Garcia's look especially weak. His hammerfists don't have anywhere near the degree of force or impact displayed like Bryan's elbows. The lariat he hits late into the match did more to expose his smaller frame out of the two than look convincing. The match comes across to me as one with very specific objectives in mind, and despite how great both of these wrestlers are, things just didn't click for me. Wouldn't call it a bad match. Just one with many problems.
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I think the layout of this match supersedes the emotion and heat of the feud, which puts a ceiling on what they can accomplish here. Most of the meat here is Rey dominating, and it still looks good and entertaining in large part due to how creative his standard offense can be, but it doesn't really come across as hard-hitting like what I'd hope. You can put some of the blame to WWE's move to PG the year before hamstringing rivalries like this of much-needed blood, however Rey has never been the type of wrestler to give a thorough beating in his matches (and he really shouldn't ever be asked to). Jericho's also past the point in his career where his offense looks like it hurts, so he can't really compensate for what Rey naturally lacks. He is a good base here though; taking every dive and consistently feeding into Rey's moves, only ever getting his shit in off of counters. Because of this, I'm not too fussed over how Jericho hit the Codebreaker, the Walls of Jericho, or how he won the match - very sleazy, cheap, easy to hate the heel moving forward. I just wish that Jericho had taken a greater deal of punishment beforehand.
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- WWE
- Extreme Rules
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[2002-05-02-NJPW-Toukon Memorial Day] Yuji Nagata vs Yoshihiro Takayama
EnviousStupid replied to Loss's topic in May 2002
I watched this for the first time last week and was pretty blown away. Real scrappy affair from the offset and ends up being this epic slugfest I was fully invested in. The core story is pretty straightforward, but they both manage to weave in several ideas and themes into the match that alongside added context, elevate it into something distinctly great - 2000s New Japan in particular seems to be a treasure trove for matches like this. Takayama is presented as an obstacle for Nagata to overcome in a few different ways; obviously being an invading challenger from NOAH, but also for the majority of the match, is either working on top, or rarely down long enough for the champion to really take advantage. One of my favourite moments here is when Nagata hits a Saito Suplex, only for Takayama to grab a headlock while still on the mat. Nagata can get some offense in early, but momentum doesn't really swing in his favor like you might expect. On the other hand, when Nagata does start putting together a comeback, it only takes a knee to the gut to turn the tide upside-down. Takayama also tries to win by various means throughout the match: pins, submissions, knockout and countout attempts are all made at different points that helped accentuate the clash of styles that comes with this example of Inokiism. Moreover, it also makes Nagata's eventual comeback more earned and important than usual (it's probably more accurate to describe it as a breakthrough). When his initial throws and suplexes fail to give him an advantage, Nagata's offense almost exclusively targets the leg. A well-placed flurry of kicks has Takayama slightly stunned. An ankle lock keeps him grounded on the mat. When he goes for a German, Nagata rolls it into a kneebar. While Takayama can dominate with all kinds of moves at his disposal, a well-focused attack like chipping away at the leg can still win out and does with the memorable sweeping counter. By this point, people in attendance are all firmly behind Nagata as they enter the finishing stretch, now on more equal ground. I think the finish could've tied in better with the meat of the match, but it's not something that really detracts from the quality and significance. Nagata successfully defended his title from an invading force, someone who represents a style/background that Nagata was embarrassed by (his loss to Mirko Cro Cop in late 2001) and a wrestler from a promotion that had beaten him previously on his own turf (the Jan 4 Dome show against Jun Akiyama).- 9 replies
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- NJPW
- Tokyo Dome
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Tagged with:
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They're both called Dick and are pretty good at the wrestling. That's kinda it.
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[1978-07-15-AJPW] Terry Funk vs Abdullah the Butcher
EnviousStupid replied to paul sosnowski's topic in July 1978
Watching this, I'm reminded of a passage in Foley's autobiography Have A Nice Day! A Tale of Blood and Sweatsocks: 'Terry then looked at me and said in his soft, West Texas mumble, “Cactus Jack, Norman tried to be an angel out there, but you wouldn’t let him, because you were not the devil. People can talk about your bumps all they want, but until you learn to be the devil in the ring, you will never fully be all that you can.” I nodded in agreement with Terry, who seemed pleased to have had me sit for a spell underneath his learning tree.' Funk's matches, at least during this run in All Japan, tend to live and die on this simple dynamic. The heel acts in dastardly ways, while Terry sells his ass off and gets the crowd fully invested in the action. It's a big reason why his 2/3 falls match with Lewin the following year has never clicked for me; Terry can be the best face in peril in the world, but if the heel can't match him as stark opposition, the drama falls flat for me. This match, even in the worst video quality I've come across, easily excels in this dynamic. Abdullah's shtick is perfect for embracing "the devil" here: closed punches obscured from the referee, introducing his trademark fork into the fight, taking said fight to the outside, just classic heel stuff of the time. The visual of Terry busted open isn't really here from the footage we have, but the effort is clearly effective in drawing heat and sympathy. The reaction to Terry's kickouts get louder each time, until finally the Funker pushes back. His punches start landing, no longer wild swings and misses. He finds his rhythm and the crowd are fully behind him like he's Stallone in one of the Rocky movies. Now it's Terry's turn to dish out the punishment, throwing Abdullah to the outside and turning this into a wild brawl. The comeback is less a babyface triumphing over evil than it is a good guy driven to violence, and it still works given the prior work done. Terry using the fork is the kind of payoff that something like this absolutely deserved. The match does end prematurely, building to a tag the following week, so they don't deliver on a proper finish here. Nothing amazing, but two masterful wrestlers in the roles they play is always worth seeking out.