[1996-09-02-WCW-Nitro] Ric Flair & Arn Anderson & Chris Benoit & Steve McMichael vs Kevin Sullivan & Big Bubba Rogers & Meng & Barbarian

[Loss]

Talk about it here.

[Loss]

Quite the angle. I think I've read before that the match wasn't supposed to go nearly this long, but there were some issues timing everything properly, and they started it too early in the show, so they had to fill time. Sting & Luger chase Nick Patrick out of the arena. When they get outside, they see Ted DiBiase in a limo. Sting throws a cinderblock through the window and the limo takes off. Sting and Luger steal a cop car and chase after them. At this point, it's clear DiBiase is NWO. Meanwhile, the match is going on in the ring between the Horsemen and Dungeon of Doom. After the Horsemen get the win, the NWO crashes the ring and starts attacking everyone. The Giant comes out, but chokeslams his fellow Dungeon of Doom members and embraces Nash. He is the fourth man. Randy Savage immediately hits the ring and knocks out Giant with a chair, does the same to Hall and Nash, corners Hogan, Hogan lowblows him to get out of it, then they spraypaint NWO on his front, and a yellow streak on his back. Then, they hit the broadcast booth. Giant tries to explain his motives for joining the NWO, but they get interrupted by the Horsemen and Dungeon and a huge brawl breaks out. The NWO gets the upper hand again, and they return. Giant attempts to finish explaining, but now, Hogan has started destroying the Nitro set (which apparently cost quite a bit to repair and wasn't at all supposed to happen). Also, supposedly, Giant was pretty upset about not getting to finish his promo because of all the interruptions. One of the more memorable (and I think one of the first) big NWO arena beatdowns with garbage being pelted everywhere.

[Matt D]

I realize that they weren't ever going to do this, but for some reason I really wish we had gotten to see a Four Horsemen of Ric, Hennig, Mongo, and Benoit with Arn in the 93 Ole role and Dibiase in the J.J. Dillon role.

[Ditch]

This segment was terrible.

 

-Both the Horsemen and DoD combined utterly fail despite significantly outnumbering the nWo, and fail so bad that the nWo are able to return to the booth

 

-The set destruction came across as awkward, and now that I know it wasn't planned that makes sense

 

-They wouldn't let Giant finish a sentence, leaving him visibly upset and killing the sense of him being in the fold

 

Really felt sloppy all around.

[goodhelmet]

Maybe but it also gave of an anything happen vibe that was so much better than any of the sanitized "surprises" or Russofied shock crap you get today. The fact that stuff looked unscripted even if it didn't make complete sense is better than being scripted to not make sense.

[El-P]

I agree, things should be a bit sloppy and disorganized if it's supposed to be chaotic. That's what has been missing from wrestling in the last decade. Plus the fact that they wouldn't let the Giant talk isn't much of a big deal when you know how long it would be before the Giant would quit the nWo because he got frustrated by Hogan and the Outsiders getting more than him. Tremedous angle to me.

[Loss]

One thing I also like about this is that while Hogan and Savage aren't facing each other until the PPV after this, they still interact here. I like matches and angles that encompass multiple things going on in a promotion at once instead of each individual feud existing in its own universe, neatly starting right after the last PPV feud and completely ending after the blowoff. If two feuds are going on, those feuds never cross over each other. It has always bugged me as a fan when wrestlers pretend like what they're doing is the only thing happening in the promotion. This angle operated on both a short-term and long-term level. That's needed more.

[Tim Evans]

Not much to add except that Mongo was just god awful in this match. Especially when he tried to climb the ropes. The Angle was great though.

[FLIK]

Agree about Mongo although I did find him countering Bubba's slide out of the ring uppercut with a straight arm punch to the nose to be pretty damn cool. The rest of this was just as great as I remembered. I agree with the above sentiment of fuck neat, nice, well executed, well spoken perfection, i'll take wild, crazy, sloppy, raw, stumblin over your words chaos any day. A little part of me is sad watching this through "2011 eyes" though.

 

In this day of over analyzing shit WAY too much all I could think when Sting & Luger destroyed a limo, shoved a policeman out of the way and stole a fuckin cop car to chase the limo was how in the hell did they get out of a lengthy prison sentence? Watching it live as a young teenager I was jumpin up & down in excitement and thinking "holy shit that's awesome" and calling my mom at work to tell her how cool it was....I miss those days....

 

Oh, also kinda sucks...I guess.....looking back knowing that, ya know, like 1/3 of the ppl involved in this are dead and another 1/3 are broke, divorced and or crippled...... stupid adulthood.....

[Dooley]

Was this the night where Hall froze Giant by asking "Hey, was Andre really your dad?"

[FLIK]

Naw, that's later in the month I think

[Chess Knight]

-They wouldn't let Giant finish a sentence, leaving him visibly upset and killing the sense of him being in the fold

That stuck out in my mind the most. I'll probably skip over that end part once I get to it again. I felt sorry for Wight looking like a green fool trying to cut this seemingly pre-planned promo while everyone else is screwing it up for him.

[El-P]

In this day of over analyzing shit WAY too much all I could think when Sting & Luger destroyed a limo, shoved a policeman out of the way and stole a fuckin cop car to chase the limo was how in the hell did they get out of a lengthy prison sentence? Watching it live as a young teenager I was jumpin up & down in excitement and thinking "holy shit that's awesome" and calling my mom at work to tell her how cool it was....I miss those days....

 

Oh, also kinda sucks...I guess.....looking back knowing that, ya know, like 1/3 of the ppl involved in this are dead and another 1/3 are broke, divorced and or crippled...... stupid adulthood.....

You bring a strong sense of melancholia to all of this.

[FLIK]

-They wouldn't let Giant finish a sentence, leaving him visibly upset and killing the sense of him being in the fold

That stuck out in my mind the most. I'll probably skip over that end part once I get to it again. I felt sorry for Wight looking like a green fool trying to cut this seemingly pre-planned promo while everyone else is screwing it up for him.

 

On that note I never got anything like that out of it either. That the other NWO guys were messing it up for him or that he was pissed about it. Hogan summed up the main points in like 30 seconds better then the he was doing anyways "We got a hold of the Giant and straightened his head out. Brother everything I showed you can be yours. Wanted a part in Arnold's new movie? Got it for ya. All the houses, all the cars, your's brother". Really didn't need the 5 minute speach the Giant was trying to give to get that across.

 

One other thing not mentioned yet, I really liked that the final shot of the night was the Dungeon of Doom carrying Randy Savage to the back with the yellow streak painted down his back. Cool little moment

 

[Chess Knight]

On that note I never got anything like that out of it either. That the other NWO guys were messing it up for him or that he was pissed about it. Hogan summed up the main points in like 30 seconds better then the he was doing anyways "We got a hold of the Giant and straightened his head out. Brother everything I showed you can be yours. Wanted a part in Arnold's new movie? Got it for ya. All the houses, all the cars, your's brother". Really didn't need the 5 minute speach the Giant was trying to give to get that across.

I don't think Wight was entirely the victim (for lack of a better term) here either. He should have cut it out the first time it was stopped. Watching him trying to keep going back to that promo every time it was interrupted was uncomfortable. He'd get attacked and then go back the same sentence, and then it just ended with him trying to satrt it again, "I sat at that table-" and the NWO tipped the announce table over.

 

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4e9sr_fo...of-doom-8_sport

 

It gets interrupted at 10:07 or so, then he goes back to it on 11:07. Hulk comes in with the car/Arnie stuff and then Wight goes back to it AGAIN at 11:50 to be cut off a second later. I don't blame Hulk for stopping it, but I feel embarrassed for Wight every time I see it.

[flyonthewall2983]

One other thing not mentioned yet, I really liked that the final shot of the night was the Dungeon of Doom carrying Randy Savage to the back with the yellow streak painted down his back. Cool little moment

 

I liked that aspect of the WCW/NWO feud, that it suddenly brought about these occasional moments of brand solidarity.

[El-P]

Terrific angle. Yes, the Horsemen and the DoD got punked around, but they got atacked from nowhere after battling out for more than ten minutes against each others, and the Giant was the übermonster at the time. The promo bit was awkward, but Giant showed his inexperience here, and for better or worse, Hogan made the point and got the spotlight on himself.

Interestingly enough, on the 96 Timeline, Sullivan said he was opposed to the Giant turn, so I guess it was a Hogan thing. And yeah, it really didn't make a whole lotta sense since he had no tie with the WWF. And the nWo *was* basically the WWF guys banding together. So although the angle, beatdown and post-beatdown promos are memorable (Hogan's that is), it can be considered as the first faux-pas in the growing nWo angle. The fact the Giant would turn back only a few months later kinda confirms it.

[Dooley]

 

Interestingly enough, on the 96 Timeline, Sullivan said he was opposed to the Giant turn, so I guess it was a Hogan thing. And yeah, it really didn't make a whole lotta sense since he had no tie with the WWF. And the nWo *was* basically the WWF guys banding together. So although the angle, beatdown and post-beatdown promos are memorable (Hogan's that is), it can be considered as the first faux-pas in the growing nWo angle. The fact the Giant would turn back only a few months later kinda confirms it.

 

Giant turning was a last-minute thing (as with many things in WCW). The plan was Bulldog jumping but he turned around and re-signed with the WWF. Since they'd already had DiBiase tease it the previous week, I guess they felt they had to do *something*. But I agree, Giant really wasn't a fit with the NWO.

[El-P]

Sullivan also adressed the issue of Waltman, which couldn't jump or appear on TV right away because of contractual issues. Sullivan wanted the nWo to be Nash/Hall/Waltman with Hogan, but Waltman's debut was delayed. He said he didn't like the idea of the Bulldog being paired with these guys either since he didn't had any connection with them in the WWF.

[Dooley]

Sullivan also adressed the issue of Waltman, which couldn't jump or appear on TV right away because of contractual issues. Sullivan wanted the nWo to be Nash/Hall/Waltman with Hogan, but Waltman's debut was delayed. He said he didn't like the idea of the Bulldog being paired with these guys either since he didn't had any connection with them in the WWF.

 

Bulldog being a WWF guy would have been enough. DiBiase wasn't exactly a member of the clique either.

[PeteF3]

Well, this has already been broken down, analyzed, dissected, reassembled, and had all those things done to it again. But aside from the opening awkwardness with Mongo and the closing awkwardness with Giant's promo (that final "I sat at the table...." remark was unintentionally hilarious) this was an incredible segment. They get Luger & Sting out of the building, and after a long clusterfuck of a match the NWO get higher ground and pick off everyone on both teams, before the Giant makes his presence felt. I'm fine with this turn even if Davey Boy (or Waltman if they could have gotten him early) would have been a better option. The post-match chaos is a pretty incredible scene, in front of a traditional wrestling crowd that gives the NWO the heel heat they deserve instead of seeing them as "cool."

[soup23]

ANother great piece of business. The final blowoff between these guys and then everything afterward that is awesome. While Giant certainly looked flustered it did kind of work within the confines of him learning the pecking order first hand but it is too late for him to apologize for the carnage he has created. I didn't think this quite reaches the high of the earlier mayhem and the actual ring does in some way feel disconnected from the aftermath but it is another match that has an amazing angle surrounding it and therefore my ranking reflects that. ****1/4

[tim]

I thought this was just a blow-away awesome segment, maybe the best show-ending segment in wrestling history. Man that post-match angle was just insane, executed perfectly with such an awesome sense of chaos. The NWO was so great at the booth, especially Hogan. The match itself was pretty damn good too, especially Flair's run of low blows and his hot tag to end the match. And man, Mongo was another level of bad here.

 

Giant feels like the perfect guy to turn to me. His size adds to the menacing aspect of the NWO. The bigness of the Giant reinforces the bigness of the angle in a way. I don't even think his promo was all bad -- it gets rambling, but he gets his point across, you understand why he turned and the draw the NWO has to any given WCW star.

[JKWebb]

The crowd is nuclear for this.  Awesome moment & angle — I don’t have anything to add, but just had a ton of fun watching this tonight.