El-P Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 LaResistance As a French, I never got the gimmick. Two guys from Quebec pretending to be French, who called themselves LaResistance and were anti-americans, was that the deal ? Because the French Resistance were the obvious allies of the American, English and Canadian troops. Makes no sense whatsoever. You want French heels, there's plenty of shit you can dig up. But La Resistance ? What ? I guess it was at the heighs of anti-french sentiment in the US so whatever approaching French = heel. You wanna make fun of French people, there's a thousands funnier ways to do it, that would make actual sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Talon Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 The other thing with Austin/Owen is that Austin has said in interviews that Owen (despite being a great and well loved guy by everybody that knew him) really did not take the time to check in on Austin when he was in the hospital and to that Austin thought it was that Owen really did not care enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 I've always had trouble with the HHH one too. There are plenty of things worth criticizing HHH over that are much more straightforward than this. Â I can think of co-workers that I don't like and that maybe I would resent if they got promoted for a job over me, but that doesn't mean I would take joy in them being dead. The other thing for me is that having aspergers, I don't react to things in the way a normal person does. It doesn't mean my emotions are any different, but I don't really show it. I have a hard time judging someone based on how they're "supposed" to react. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyonthewall2983 Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 The WWF turning Eddie's death into storyline fodder. I was really turned off by that at the time, it was done so tastelessly. This. I've always considered the fallout on WWE after the Benoit debacle karma for dragging Eddie's death and name months after it. I still think the creepiest angle in wrestling ever was marrying Vickie and Edge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 I said it on DVDVR but the WWF had no idea how to exploit the fake 9/11 patriotism. You try to get Canadians and French Canadians pretending to be french to say shit a portion of the audience agrees with? If you want to do that shit do it right and get a guy called the Terrorist and have him say "Fuck the troops and fuck you." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.L.L. Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 I said it on DVDVR but the WWF had no idea how to exploit the fake 9/11 patriotism. You try to get Canadians and French Canadians pretending to be french to say shit a portion of the audience agrees with? If you want to do that shit do it right and get a guy called the Terrorist and have him say "Fuck the troops and fuck you." I don't exactly have a ton of glowing praise for TNA's booking, but I have to give them this much - hiring Daivari and booking him as an Arab-American whose life fell apart due to anti-Arab sentiments after 9/11 and deciding to take revenge by becoming the embodiment of all of America's fears about Islamic terrorism >>>>>>>>>>>>> anything WWE ever did to try and capitalize on 9/11. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 Is there something inherently wrong with them doing so? Is a tribute show really the place to attempt to put yourself over with the hardcore fans and the boys in the back? Â Should they have beaten Benoit and Rey? Of course not, and the criticism would have been pretty bad. Â Should they have stayed off the show? Of course not, because then the criticism would be that they were being disrespectful. Â What were they supposed to do? Maybe let Benoit vs. Rey headline instead of Benoit vs. Hunter and have Hunter & Shawn wrestle someone else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Morris Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 Speaking of 9/11, there's Stephanie McMahon comparing the anger people felt after the 9/11 attacks to how angry her family was about Vince McMahon getting indicted for steroid distribution. That's certainly right up there with everything Fritz did. Â As for the Melanie Pillman deal, she does say on the DVD that she wasn't forced into it and claims she wanted to dispel rumors about Brian's death being due to a drug overdoes. When you consider that she was a participant in the Austin/Pillman gun angle, I'm not surprised she'd claim she never felt forced to do anything after her husband's death. Â That being said, Bruce Pritchard's remarks on the Pillman DVD about what guts Melanie showed is one of the most shameless things to ever come out of his mouth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paul Kersey Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 Victator- I think in Vince's mind no "part of the audience" would agree with those characters. My best guesses are that Vince adhered to the Conservative line about the war wholly himself or that he thought the public totally did, and would react to Nowinski/UnAmericans/LaRez the way Bill O'Reilly would have them. The WWE has shown their perception of the public as dumb "one size fits all" marks before, so I don't put the assumption that they would all be pro-war or resentful of people claiming to be victims of racism past them. (To an extent, they may be right. I was really uncomfortable with Raw guest host Al Sharpton being introduced into a segment with black babyfaces and booed on sight. He was even getting nuclear heat trying to push whatever banal education program he was there to plug.) Â I didn't really think of the Stephanie promo about 9/11 as a promotional tactic but that's still pretty disgusting; it may be more so that they still don't realize why, as I think it was included on the recent best of Smackdown dvd. Â As an aside, I do think there was a longer semi-serious American Hero run for Kurt after 9/11 that WWE didn't see or that they assumed the public would be too cyncial for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 Watching the Nowinski/Steiner debate there is no way they did not do that as comedy. Its just I watch 80s/early 90s WWF and they are so smart its hard to imagine the same people were booking that weak ass shit in the early 00's. The stuff just failed so completely you think they would recognize it. Â I mean I live in Alabama and I would talk to old people and people you would call rednecks who just hated the war. The kind of people who love wrestling. The UnAmericans was just so lame. An upside down American flag? Is that suppose to piss me off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 The Mike Graham thing was the Freebirds, who were faces in Florida, turning heel by Buddy Roberts coming in and saying some shit about "His Dead Daddy" right after Eddie killed himself. I remember the Apter mags being disgusted with it. Â Â I myself love it, cause nothing in wrestling offends me. Â edit: Oh, yeah. The Stephanie shit after 9/11. See, that didn't offend me as much as I was thinking "Holy shit, what a stupid thing to say." And I'm almost positive it's not on the Smackdown DVD set. The Vince in the ring declaring the terrorists haven't won cause WE'RE PUTTING ON A SHOW bit is, but if you're gonna call out Vince on that, then there's about a few thousand shows/ plays/ comedy troupes/ whatever who used that line. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJH Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 Yeah, Stephanie's comments were more stupid than shameless. I mean she was, what, 20 years old at the time having probably lived a fairly sheltered life, really, with her father's indictment being the worst thing she'd gone through. At least there was a positive message about pulling together through adversity there. JBL's blatant war-mongering was far more offensive, really... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomk Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 Weren't those pre-taped segments edited into a show? You can say Stephanie is naive and thus blameless. Whoever aired it, less so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm funk Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 Yeah, Stephanie's comments were more stupid than shameless. I mean she was, what, 20 years old at the time having probably lived a fairly sheltered life, really, with her father's indictment being the worst thing she'd gone through. At least there was a positive message about pulling together through adversity there. JBL's blatant war-mongering was far more offensive, really... 25 Â I never really got all the hand wringing about that. It was a one liner, not like the whole promo was built around the idea of vince being attacked by terrorists. Stupid thing to say maybe, but it didn't bother me, just seemed like everybody wanted to nitpick it for no good reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 Not really a nitpick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 It was stupid and shameless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smkelly Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 You guys mentioned a lot of the "best" shameful things I can remember, but one of the things that has stuck with me were the fans on the Owen memorial show. When they first showed JR & King...just wow. Reasonable defenses probably exist for them, but still, yeah. Â Didn't Orton say Eddy was in Hell? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 Yes he did, not to mention the earlier low rider desecration angle and how thick they laid on the Rey is doing this for Eddie angle during Rey's Royal Rumble and World title wins, only to beat him like a drum as soon as he won the title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 Well, the only point of Rey winning the Rumble and the belt was make money out of Eddie's death. The constant references to Eddie during that time were just unbearable. Plus since Vince hates small guys, Rey was never treated as a real champ anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smkelly Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 Plus since Vince hates small guys, Rey was never treated as a real champ anyway.I think it depends on the guy, really. I mean, Jericho, Benoit, Eddy, and Rey have all had World title reigns (even if they were botched). Danielson will likely hold a World title before he leaves, as Vince had wanted his services for quite a while before eventually signing him.  Shawn and Bret held countless titles, and they are small compared to his normal model of wrestler. Savage was tiny compared to some of the other 80s stars like Hogan, obviously Andre, and Warrior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 Punk is also the current top heel and has held the title. Â There was a news item in the WON a few months ago about how WWE realizes they need to start getting over small guys as threats because the guys coming into wrestling now aren't as big as they were in the past, and that the stars of tomorrow will be much smaller. I don't know when they start actually making inroads toward that goal, but the point isn't lost on WWE that it's where wrestling is going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smkelly Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 Hmm. I thought Punk was like 6'5ish, but Wiki says 6'1. I could have sworn him and Edge came eye to eye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 Bret and Shawn aren't small. Shawn is 6'1. I've heard that Jerry Jarrett played a role in them getting pushed at the time. Savage sure wasn't a small guy. Eddie, Benoit and Rey were small. Rey was pushed because Eddie died. Both Rey and Benoit's title reign were nondescriot at best, and they got back to the midcard afterward. But really, it's an accepted fact that Vince doesn't like small guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 According to Caurt Bauer, the push to make Rey champ the first time came from the writers and such, with lots of resistance from Vince but he did it. Vince didn't do it because of Eddie, he did it cause the writing staff convinced him to do it. And yes, he then had Ray lose a lot. Â But what about Ray's recent reign as World Champ? That wasn't about Eddie and Ray's still small. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 Punk is also the current top heel and has held the title. Â There was a news item in the WON a few months ago about how WWE realizes they need to start getting over small guys as threats because the guys coming into wrestling now aren't as big as they were in the past, and that the stars of tomorrow will be much smaller. I don't know when they start actually making inroads toward that goal, but the point isn't lost on WWE that it's where wrestling is going. Â Then they fast track a guy like Mason Ryan up to the main roster because he looks like Batista, while Daniel Bryan is made to look like a goof who's afraid of girls and he doesn't even get his entrance on TV most weeks despite being US champion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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