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Seriously Shameless


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I was amusing myself watching the R-A-S-S-L-I-N performance again on youtube, and it made me feel like watching

. Jesus, I had forgotten how absolutely shameless this thing is. I appreciate that the crowd might like the idea of honoring David, but they trot out a kid to sing. The lyrics are embarrassingly over the top. And at the end, they have the gall to offer the tape for sale.

 

What comes to mind when the term "shameless" is used? I figure we could just say "Fritz" and then close the thread. But what else? (oh, and I secretly love that "heaven needed" song - don't tell anyone)

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The first Billionaire Ted skit making fun of the limited moveset of Hogan and Savage while showing clips of three different guys all doing a powerbomb variation.

I just watched that on the yearbook. It wasn't funny to me. Maybe it's because I have a sense of the mean-spiritedness that's yet to come, so that something that might have been "awesomely stupid" comes across as just lame at best.

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Talk of the use of Latino Heat's death reminds me of an OTT promo that JBL cut a couple of years back. He was working David Smith. I am not even sure the new Hart Foundation existed yet. Anyway, JBL made some crack about how "no father is going to save you this time", and then he proceeded to squash Smith so badly that I am pretty sure he didn't show up on tv for months.

 

I like JBL more than most people, and I love hating him for his genius but evil promos. Still, even I felt the whole situation was cruel and shameless, and the match was a total burial.

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Memphis managers/Heels saying that Jerry Lawler killed Andy Kaufman. It was bad when guys like Jimmy Hart and Eddie Gilbert said it in the 80's but when Eric Embry and Nate the Rat said it in the 90's early 00's it was worse.

Hell, Lawler infers it in some way too. "The last northerner to come down here talking like that was Andy Kaufman and we all know how that ended."

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The WWF turning Eddie's death into storyline fodder. I was really turned off by that at the time, it was done so tastelessly.

Yes. This. But I guess it's ok because "Eddie would have wanted it" bullshit.

 

HHH and Chyna crocodile tears about Owen Hart. Austin not saying one word because he never forgave Owen (depsite himself breaking Chono's neck) and then opening a Steveweiser at the end of the show. So fake and shameless all of this.

 

And I guess, airing the Benoit tribute show despite knowing...

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HHH and Chyna crocodile tears about Owen Hart. Austin not saying one word because he never forgave Owen (depsite himself breaking Chono's neck) and then opening a Steveweiser at the end of the show. So fake and shameless all of this.

See, I always have a problem with this talking point, no offense. Who's to say HHH and Chyna's tears were a put on? How could anyone know that? It's just a projection of HHH hate onto a real life situation. And as far as Austin goes, it's as simple as " They had him do a toast to Owen" to end the show, and having him do an interview like everyone else was probably something he wasn't comfortable with. It's known the guy isn't comfortable with death, as evidenced by how he didn't go to Pillman's funeral, despite them being great friends. I seriously doubt Austin was thinking, "Sorry he's dead, but he broke my neck so fuck him." And no one there was thinking anything about fucking Chono btw.

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HHH and Chyna crocodile tears about Owen Hart. Austin not saying one word because he never forgave Owen (depsite himself breaking Chono's neck) and then opening a Steveweiser at the end of the show. So fake and shameless all of this.

See, I always have a problem with this talking point, no offense. Who's to say HHH and Chyna's tears were a put on? How could anyone know that? It's just a projection of HHH hate onto a real life situation. And as far as Austin goes, it's as simple as " They had him do a toast to Owen" to end the show, and having him do an interview like everyone else was probably something he wasn't comfortable with. It's known the guy isn't comfortable with death, as evidenced by how he didn't go to Pillman's funeral, despite them being great friends. I seriously doubt Austin was thinking, "Sorry he's dead, but he broke my neck so fuck him." And no one there was thinking anything about fucking Chono btw.

 

HHH & Chyna spent the previous year fucking Owen's push, didn't want to put him over, and all of a sudden Owen was a great friend ? Come on. Plus HHH is a terrible actor, and quite frankly, his little spiel looked fake as hell. I'm sure he was sad about it, who wouldn't be. But his segment was uncomfortable to watch because it looked forced. And remember, it's not like there was a vast anti-HHH sentiment back then, so I'm not projecting my current disdain for the guy. I think there was a few other segments which looked forced (maybe Bradshaw? I'm not sure EDIT : actually no, Bradshaw just didn't sound emotional, like a few other, which made HHH's tribute even more forced). It was not very hard to see the ones who were genuinely devastated by their loss like Jeff Jarrett, Debra, Mark Henry, Foley (which BTW was uncomfortable too), and a few others that really didn't want to be in front of the camera or just had nothing to say in particular. I think Stephy looked damn shocked too actually. I'm aware Austin doesn't deal well with death, but it was also very well known that he never ever forgave Owen (which I found a bit hypocritical, which is why I mentionned Chono; accident occurs, Droz got paralysed and never resented D-Lo as far as I know) and really looked like he didnt want to do that at all. It was not coming from the heart, it was the WWF sending Austin doing his post match gimmick in a fake hommage to a guy who just died the previous day. There was no *need* for that. If some people didn't want to be in front of the camera they shouldn't be forced to, a guy is dead, it's understandable not everybody wants to talk about it nor is able to. This looked like show-business as usual.

 

And since you're talking about Pillman, interviewing Melanie Pillman live on Raw the next day was godawful.

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And since you're talking about Pillman, interviewing Melanie Pillman live on Raw the next day was godawful.

 

This. Still the most douche-chill inducing thing ever on WWE TV, especially her looking like she was coached to say how grateful she was to Vince.

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And since you're talking about Pillman, interviewing Melanie Pillman live on Raw the next day was godawful.

 

This. Still the most douche-chill inducing thing ever on WWE TV, especially her looking like she was coached to say how grateful she was to Vince.

 

Now, THAT was truly awful and hard to watch.

 

As far as the HHH/ Owen thing goes..that's still putting wrestling shit ahead of "say, how would I react if someone I worked with died at work, even if we didn't get along?" And I'm sorry, but "His crying looked fake" doesn't hold water. Unless you've seen the guy cry before, how do ya know how he cries?

 

And sure, they popped the crowd with Austin giving Owen a toast. When I was watching it live it came off to me as "I'm doing this to show that past shit is beyond me, and past wrestling bullshit doesn't matter.

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Hunter and Shawn putting over Eddie's best buddies Chris and Rey in matches on his two tribute shows was a bit transparent too.

Is there something inherently wrong with them doing so?

 

Although, I have to admit that Shawn getting his win back at the RAW vs Smackdown match at Survivor Series a few weeks later was the near-height of petty for me.

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Hunter and Shawn putting over Eddie's best buddies Chris and Rey in matches on his two tribute shows was a bit transparent too.

Is there something inherently wrong with them doing so?

 

Although, I have to admit that Shawn getting his win back at the RAW vs Smackdown match at Survivor Series a few weeks later was the near-height of petty for me.

 

But the story was HBK coming back from a 3-on-1 deficit, so of course he's going to have to pin Mysterio. How do we know that wasn't how the match was laid out with no consideration to him getting his job back?

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The HHH//Owen one is hard for me to accept. There's no way we could get into his mind or know if his tears were fake

Agreed. I watched it again recently, and he seemed pretty upset, and his words seemed heartfelt. Just because he conspired to hold down a guy doesn't mean he's not going to be broken up when a guy dies in a tragic accident

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Is there something inherently wrong with them doing so?

Is a tribute show really the place to attempt to put yourself over with the hardcore fans and the boys in the back?

 

Should they have beaten Benoit and Rey? Of course not, and the criticism would have been pretty bad.

 

Should they have stayed off the show? Of course not, because then the criticism would be that they were being disrespectful.

 

What were they supposed to do?

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I've always had trouble with the HHH one too. There are plenty of things worth criticizing HHH over that are much more straightforward than this.

 

I can think of co-workers that I don't like and that maybe I would resent if they got promoted for a job over me, but that doesn't mean I would take joy in them being dead.

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Guest Paul Kersey

I've always heard of a Mike Graham-booked Florida angle after Eddie Graham's suicide where a heel claims to have murdered him. I've never seen it, but I'll have to look for it.

 

I've thought Vince's conservative pandering can get pretty shamelessly exploitative at times. All the USO tours and such are good things, and Vince is entitled to his political beliefs, but there was some pretty rough stuff in '02-'03. I didn't take umbrage to LaResistance & the UnAmericans, and thought Hassan & Daivari could have been interesting until their terrorist henchmen turned up. Racial or politically unpopular heels are kind of a standard, as bad of a thing as that is.

 

I thought the Scott Steiner v Chris Nowinski feud with debates was actively offensive and shameless, in it's execution and assumptions of who the audience would identify with and why. It's kind of ugly to watch an audience rally behind a loudmouthed meathead cheering war and revenge against the educated and rich lefty pansy who'd argue for caution or against unilateral military action. I really doubt that was booked as political satire. The whole thing seemed really tasteless and inappropriate beyond racial heels or normal cheap low-culture jingoism.

 

I can't find video, the wrestlecrap writeup will have to do. I could probably write an essay on Vince's politics in WWE through the years.

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