WCW ongoing thread

[El-P]

Starrcade really didn't feel like a major show at all. Really, GAB and Halloween Havoc were the big time shows in 1994. That doesn't change the fact that having Brutus Beefcake in the main event was a huge slap to WCW fans and workers. A guy with no talent, who hasn't been relevant in... well was never relevant but at least over during his late 80's midcard WWF stint, with no promo ability, who wasn't over in the least with WCW crowd, put into a main event, whatever the show, was a complete joke on par with David Arquette, if not worse actually because at this point you already had non wrestlers work matches all over the place. A total travesty, a joke of a match, a joke of a booking, and an epic fail as it felt like a throw away Saturday Night match. Hogan also showed how much of an asshole he was as earlier on the show, "Hulkamaniac" brother Dave Sullivan was beaten down merciless by his brother after Jimmy Hart encouraged him to interfere into Kevin's match, and no one comes to defend him. Way to go Hogan. He did show up to defend Sting later on, but Sting is a star, so you know Hogan was full of shit in kayfabe too, only caring for the big names and not for the weak. teh announcing is also considerably suffering, as Heenan in particular is at point unbearable overselling shit like the Butcher and making jokes without caring for the in-ring product. Schiavone is not the same anymore as you can feel he's not enjoying himself a lot of the time, and has zero chemistry with the Brain. Anyway. I thought Hogan's arrival was gonna be bad, I didn't think it would get that bad that quick actually. The company took a huge nosedive during that year, despite an already pretty shitty 1993 overall. I wasn't that hot about the first 6 months of 1994 eithet, although it was way better than most of 93, but a few weeks after Hogan shows up the company jumps off a cliff in term of content. Sad to watch, even in retrospect.

The final picture of Starrcade, with Hogan and Savage together really pointed the finger toward what Bischoff wanted for WCW : to be the WWF in 1988. Ultimately the company would regain an identity with Nitro and the whole undercard of cruiserweights, luchadors, japanese wresters, the likes of Raven and the nWo, but for now, WCW was washed out.

[MikeCampbell]

Probably not a coincidence that the Starrcade buyrate was a huge nosedive from Halloween Havoc. It really shows how well received Hogan really was in WCW at all. Hogan/Flair drew big ratings, Hogan/Beefcake did not.

[goc]

Watching Starrcade 96 I had to come and post about Rey Jr. vs. Liger. I actually really liked this match but it's hurt by such a bad crowd. I don't even understand why they're so dead for this match because they were really hot during the Dean Malenko vs. Ultimo Dragon opener. Maybe they just don't know they're supposed to boo Liger or don't care to. But the match itself is awesome with Liger working like a methodical bully and Rey taking a nasty beatdown, getting hit with a bunch of nasty powerbombs. I especially liked Liger blocking Rey's top rope frankensteiner leading into the finish. Also dug Liger's "holy shit" reaction to Rey getting ready to kill himself on a dive and running up to catch him.

[Tim Evans]

I'm watching Fall Brawl 94. Not a bad show but the whole Steamboat vs Austin thing is just brutal even for WCW. I had no idea Steamboat actually showed up to forfit the title. When did WCW know that he wasn't going to be able to wrestle? They had to have known before the day or even before Saturday night. Why did they keep plugging the match? And Duggan winning the title like that is such bullshit.

[shoe]

I'm watching Fall Brawl 94. Not a bad show but the whole Steamboat vs Austin thing is just brutal even for WCW. I had no idea Steamboat actually showed up to forfit the title. When did WCW know that he wasn't going to be able to wrestle? They had to have known before the day or even before Saturday night. Why did they keep plugging the match? And Duggan winning the title like that is such bullshit.

 

According to old Observers they knew weeks in advance.

[El-P]

Brian Pillman repackaging is really ill-advised, complete with total 80's hair metal gimmick, hair, tights and music theme. Poor guy. The Loose Cannon must have been half-shoot, as he must have built one hell of a frustration inside him during all those years.

 

John Tenta has impressed me a whole lot thus far, he's one of my favourite worker in the company at this point, and I don't mean by default either. He carried Sting to a good monster match (as Sting doesn't work nearly as hard or as well as he used to do in 92/93), had very good matches with Savage, and was pretty much always a highlight whenever he's featured in a tag match. I was always a fan, but discovering his work in 1995 makes his stock go way up with me. Some of his best work of his career to me.

 

Steve Austin makes a comeback with longer hair, and gets pinned clean by Sting in a disapointing match. Plus he's settled with Col. Parker AGAIN. I have said how much fun Parker has been in the chicken suit angle and in the Wargames match, but on a day to day basis, I really don't care at all for this character which truly is a liability to guys like Arn and Austin who don't need a walking gimmick straight out of 80's WWF to cut goofy promos for them. Doesn't help that the Stud Stable including Bunkhouse Buck and Blacktop BUlly has relaly grown to be one of my least favourite ever if not for Arn and Terry Funk being a part of it. The debut of Meng was a godawful match with Duggan, really the Barbarian can't arrive soon enough so that Haku becomes fun again.

 

But the most important thing is that TIM HORNER is back on my TV ! Sadly no more Garth Brooks, but I'm glad to see good ol' butterface in the ring again. Really fun match with the Blue Bloods (another highlights of WCW TV) on Worlwide. B-shows. The killer was Heenan saying that regal was a man's man. Retrospectively made me smile and brought immediate memory of that damn song.

[Matt D]

John Tenta has impressed me a whole lot thus far, he's one of my favourite worker in the company at this point, and I don't mean by default either. He carried Sting to a good monster match (as Sting doesn't work nearly as hard or as well as he used to do in 92/93), had very good matches with Savage, and was pretty much always a highlight whenever he's featured in a tag match. I was always a fan, but discovering his work in 1995 makes his stock go way up with me. Some of his best work of his career to me.

I love the Shark Attack finisher too.

[El-P]

He's not yet a Shark, nor a man, he's an Avalanche.

 

In an ironic twist of fate, of just pure cruel booking, Beefcake, who's absolutely inept to the point of making Brian Knobbs look like Bobby Eaton and Stevie Ray look like Steve Austin, is actually portrayed as been inept in storyline too. He's the one fucking up in every match involving the Three Faces of Fear. Litteraly, and kayfabe-wise. I know this guy had no talent, but could he have the dignity to at least *try* ?

[Matt D]

I need to put it here before it's too late.

 

What I hate the most about the Beefcake turn is that Hogan won't even put his best friend, who is a guy who would never stab him in the back, in a position to draw money with him or get heat on him. Not even a guy he trusts completely and is completely dependent on him. That's how far gone he is in late 94/early 95.

 

Beefcake doesn't get unmasked until after he already eats the legdrop. That's the single most maddening thing in wrestling history to me. Hogan beat him down, got his comeuppance, and only then does he get revealed. Sure he has the lame sleeper angle later, but its so backwards. You have Beefcake unmask after Hogan takes out ANOTHER masked guy, only to get assaulted, and he does it over Hogan's prone body.

 

Or something like that. It's not rocket science. They picked the one way that it was absolutely assured to be heatless.

[El-P]

I forget Jerome, did you ever see Stars n Stripes v. Arn/Vader?

I have. Very good match, the best ever from S&S. Loved Arn & Vader cool double team moves, especially the springboard into a chokeslam. Very strong TV match.

[El-P]

Interesting contrast between Sting vs Steve Austin on 04/08 and Sting vs Arn Anderson on 04/22. The first match was very much my turn/your turn, heavy on bumps but short on storytelling, with Sting making an aggravating no-sell comeback seemingly at random, overall a pretty good match but really nothing special. The second match was much more under control thanks to Arn who pretty much structured the entire match for Sting, less action (although it was not a slow match either) but flowed a lot better, had a logical progression to the finish and good transitions. Showed me that Arn in 1995 was still better than Austin who was on his way but just not there yet.

[El-P]

I really like the 95 C shows, for what it's worth. I have a feeling you probably won' be watching Prime when you hit 95, so it doesn't really matter, but still.

I love me some Prime. Dusty's announcing is really funny, laid back and busting out Rhodism left and right. Regularly one or two nice little competitive matches on the show, Schiavone obviously having fun doing it. Yep, This C show works for me.

 

Thus far, and with the benefit of B and C shows (I don't have Main Event for 95 though), WCW TV is better in 1995 that it's been for the last half of 1994, thanks to a more dynamic undercard and random matches far from the awful main event scene (which also had its peak in the first Hogan vs Vader). I actually enjoy Harlem Heat quite a bit as they have improved and having Sherri makes them better (great timing and ridiculous bumps), Booker T works super hard and Stevie Ray is... well, he's still mostly really terrible but at times comically bad which always beats boring and dull with me (I'm looking at you Jimmy Golden). They had a nice little chemistry with Stars & Stripes surprisingly. Arn Anderson as a TV champ as delivered the goods (if you except that stupid boxer vs wrestler match), Johnny B. Badd, Pillman and Alex Wright (although still really green) make a nice little undercard babyface bunch, I enjoy Brad Armstrong & Tim Horner a whole lot whenever they're given a little bit of time and offense. Those DDP and Bluebloods vignettes are pretty entertaining. John Tenta and Big Bubba have been good too, especially Tenta. Butcher is pretty much isolated from the rest of the card, as seems to be Duggan at this point (for now at least). Steve Austin is having good matches on TV too (although it's obvious he would never amount to anything with Hogan in place). Really, I've been able to get quite a bit from WCW TV. Of course Hogan has mostly been a complete disgrace, but Savage was pretty motivated as showed by his matches with Tenta and Arn Anderson. Super low expectation probably helps a bit, but still, not as terrible as I thought it would be, hell I might even say it's actually better than the awfuly boring and bad stretch in mid 93.

[El-P]

Interesting contrast between Sting vs Steve Austin on 04/08 and Sting vs Arn Anderson on 04/22. The first match was very much my turn/your turn, heavy on bumps but short on storytelling, with Sting making an aggravating no-sell comeback seemingly at random, overall a pretty good match but really nothing special. The second match was much more under control thanks to Arn who pretty much structured the entire match for Sting, less action (although it was not a slow match either) but flowed a lot better, had a logical progression to the finish and good transitions. Showed me that Arn in 1995 was still better than Austin who was on his way but just not there yet.

Another interesting contrast is the Sting vs Paul Orndorff match on 05/20. Orndorff is obviously much lower on the totem pole, and it shows in Sting's work, as he doesn't try to have a strong match at all. Orndorff carries the match and brings the structure and transitions, complete with stalling at the beginning Larry Z. style (in a good way, Orndorff is a master at getting heat for doing nothing, although he doesn't get that much here since it's obvious he has no chance against Sting). As a sign that Sting wasn't working that hard anymore, there's an interesting spot in which Orndorff is trying to launch Sting into the steel barricades at ringside, and Sting won't have none of it, refusing to go for it, and Orndorff basically takes Sting back inside the ring. Orndorff, 46 at the time, worked harder than Sting, who really didn't do much to make the match good.

[ohtani's jacket]

I watched that Sting/Orndorff match just for the heck of it. God, listening to Tony and Heenan is torturous. A lot of Bobby's jokes are bad, but the dead air after Heenan feeds Tony a set-up for a one liner, the amount of times Tony cuts Bobby off and the times where he laughs but at Heenan and not the joke are ridiculous. The match itself is the most meaningless bout ever. Even if Sting had taken that bump into the barricade it wouldn't have improved the match one iota. I thought both guys were phoning it, probably because of the stupid set and the monotonous taping commitment. Orndorff often had his working shoes in in WCW but I don't think he bust a gut here. Half the match was stalling.

[El-P]

At this point I'm used to Tony & Bobby, sadly. I'm glad to have Tony/Dusty on Prime. I'm not saying the bump in the barricade would have changed much, but two years prior Sting would have probably launched himself into it with enthousiasm. Orndorff worked obviously harder when he had opponents at the same level on the totem pole, and by 1995 he wasn't as good as he was in 92/93. Here he knows he won't get a strong match and doesn't go the extra mile at all, indeed, but he's still the one putting the match together. Sting just was cruising. I don't know if the fact Hogan showed up and basically relegated him to be "the most popular WCW wrestler" as said by the announcers had a role in it. The timeframe of his demotivation seems to match pretty well (although his matches with Flair in 1994 before Hogan showed up already showed signed of decline in term of work, but maybe it was just the fact of working with Flair that turned back the clock to 1990).

[ohtani's jacket]

The reason I chose to watch it was because I was kind of surprised by the Sting/Meng matches that come out of this tournament. They're actually pretty decent. There was also another strong Regal/Sting match that year.

[El-P]

Those will probably interest me as well. I remember not being that big of a fan of the Regal vs Sting PPV match in 1996, as to me it was a case of Sting shrugging off Regal's entire stretch of offense in 2 sec from nowhere and taking the match home.

[ohtani's jacket]

I've never seen a Regal/Sting match I didn't like. It always impresses me when Sting busts shit out on the mat in those matches. (That doesn't sound good, does it?)

[El-P]

No it doesn't.

[El-P]

Heard on WCW Worldwide, about Col. Parker.

 

Bobby Heenan : "He's a huge man in the industry."

Tony Schiavone : "That's what I heard. (silence) The biggest."

(silence)

 

Do I read too much into *that* exchange ?

[flyonthewall2983]

Please tell me that exchange is on YouTube somewhere lol.

[PeteF3]

Heard on WCW Worldwide, about Col. Parker.

 

Bobby Heenan : "He's a huge man in the industry."

Tony Schiavone : "That's what I heard. (silence) The biggest."

(silence)

 

Do I read too much into *that* exchange ?

If I remember Foley's first book correctly...absolutely not.

[tomk]

They would endlessly joke about Parker's penis on commentary. The whole Parker, Sherri Harlem Heat pairing feels like something that was booked for the purpose of giving announce team material for double entendres.

 

Another interesting contrast is the Sting vs Paul Orndorff match on 05/20. Orndorff is obviously much lower on the totem pole, and it shows in Sting's work, as he doesn't try to have a strong match at all.

Was Sting really a guy who mailed it in vs. lower card guys in 94? Earlier today I watched Sting v Bad Attitude era Steve Keirn on dailymotion (WCWSN 10/29/94). Can't get lower on totem pole then Bad Attitude Steve Keirn in 94. Sting is working hard semi competitive match with attempts (some pretty awkward) at interesting reversals and escapes.

[EricR]

I watched a match from '95 last year where Sting gives 80% of a match to The Gambler while peppering in comebacks.

[El-P]

Was Sting really a guy who mailed it in vs. lower card guys in 94? Earlier today I watched Sting v Bad Attitude era Steve Keirn on dailymotion (WCWSN 10/29/94). Can't get lower on totem pole then Bad Attitude Steve Keirn in 94. Sting is working hard semi competitive match with attempts (some pretty awkward) at interesting reversals and escapes.

I would be tempted to say yes, Sting was kinda mailing it in general, not in the sense that he would not give anything, but that he would just not do anything to make the match interesting. I admit I must have fast forwarded that Sting vs Keirn match, as I couldn't handle Keirn in 1994, he was just horrible.

That being said, I just watched a Sting vs Dick Slater on Saturday Night that I enjoyed quite a bit. Just a backdrop to Sting vs Meng at ringside, but they worked a pretty interesting short match, much better than the one against Orndorff, as Sting was seemingly more willing to do stuff here and have a fun little match.

On the other hand, on the same show, Randy Savage vs Steve Austin was depressing, as it's basically one of those "Savage sells for five minutes then hits the elbow for the win" non-match. Austin's status had fallen so far it's crazy. And then you have Pillman with that godawful look (1984 hair metal guy) being programmed with Alex Wright. No wonder why one year later those two would be on Raw.

 

The Dungeon of Doom angle is beginning. Oh man... Kevin Sullivan running in the woods, answering the call of a mysterious Master...