[1992-08-08-WCW-Saturday Night] Big Van Vader vs Ron Simmons

[Loss]

Talk about it here.

[Loss]

Really fun, short match sees Simmons win the WCW World title in an impromptu match and a classic moment. This was one of the few times Bill Watts really worked his magic in WCW in creating emotion.

 

Goodhelmet, how did the Jake laying out Sting stuff get chopped out?

[Tim Evans]

The fan going crazy after Simmons wins never gets old.

[shoe]

Watt's step one here is amazing. The whole segment was so full of emotional. Now the follow up to the Simmons run was poor.

[BackToBionic]

I didn't see that one coming at all at that time. And that fan IS indeed golden.

[NitroFan]

i hope the fan you're talking about is the black dude in the pale blue shirt that comes out of nowhere and starts jumping up against the guard rail, because he is awesome.

[BackToBionic]

That's the one I was talking about. If that happened nowadays? Forget it...that fan is getting his own WWE youtube show, t-shirt, Slammy award....the sky's the limit.

[BruiserBrody]

Oddly enough I remember where I was when I 1st saw this. WCW syndication came on at like midnight on Saturday night here.

[El-P]

I guess it worked for the moment, but I Simmons winning on a Clash would have been came off much better.

[Kevin Ridge]

I'd be nitpicking about Watts talking about making wrestling credible and then having eight guys put their names in a brown paper bag and the winner become number one contender. Well, the moment of Simmons winning overshadows all that. Simmons survived some big moves from Vader too. Crowd went pretty crazy for the finish.

[Zenjo]

The career highlight for the All American out of Florida State (thanks x100 JR). He had a good look and was explosive, but wasn't a notable worker and was terrible on the mic. Only 9m long was a good idea. A super fun TV match because the crowd were scorchio. They worked a simple underdog format with Vader roughing up the challenger before Simmons came back for the fluke pin. With the surprise factor I think they pulled off the switch as well as possible. It was a geniune shock to the fans and that kid marking out was a wonderful moment.

[WingedEagle]

We get clips of the drawing for Vader's challenger due to Jake attacking Sting earlier (which unfortunately didn't make the set). We then join Simmons vs. Vader in progress, with Simmons overpowering the champion. Everything we get here is great. The crowd is on fire. Simmons' offense on the bigger man with a lariat, backdrop suplex and spinebuster make him look like some kind of superhero and not at all out of his league. Jim Ross also contributed with one of his classic calls here. Simmons kicks out of the Vader splash, flips out of a power bomb and hits a great looking powerslam to take the title to a *huge* pop.

 

*** for the match, but a full 5 for how this was laid out as far as establishing a new world champion in a matter of minutes. Basically a perfectly executed money in the bank type situation about 15 years earlier.

 

Now why is the Barbarian the best you can come up with for your hot new babyface champion all fall? Rude? Vader? Jake? Something?

[PeteF3]

Luckily Jake's debut is on Youtube, and it's the best angle WCW has done this year. Sting is sitting in on commentary for Rick Rude vs. Nikita Koloff, when Cactus Jack makes his way to the ring for a 2-on-1. Sting leaves to make the save, but in the process of dispensing of Rude and Cactus he leaves himself open to an attack from Jake, who sneaks in from the crowd. Huge heat for all of this--Jake levels Sting with a chair, the short-arm clothesline, and then drops him with two DDTs onto the chair. Babyfaces swarm the ring as he lets his python out of the bag, but Sting has to do a stretcher job and is out of the World title match.

 

I had taken interest in WCW with the WWF declining and my taking up of the Apter mags in full force, but this was the angle that turned me from a second-hand follower of the product to a devoted viewer. This was a hotter segment than anything the WWF has done in 1992.

 

A random drawing follows because WE, THE FANS deserve a World title match. Cappetta loves to tell the story of how paranoid Watts was about working the drawing and having the work be exposed--they had to have all the names legitimately in the bag and Cappetta was ordered to read Simmons' name and then put whatever he drew immediately back in, lest a sheet of paper with "VAN HAMMER" written on it get into the wrong hands.

 

I didn't know this match actually existed in full (or nearly full), but the crowd is electric from the very start. Holy shit, this is a lost North America MOTYC as far as I'm concerned. Oh, it's short, and maybe it's not strictly as good as the high-end DA tags, but man, the stakes and the heat are higher than anything except for WarGames. Total sprint with Simmons and Vader both unleashing some great offense and doing some great bumping and selling, too. Simple finish but the powerslam looks like it absolutely crushes Vader and is a perfect exclamation point to the match. And of course, the post-match, which is one of the greatest chill scenes I've ever seen in wrestling.

 

I know Simmons' reign was a bust, that he had underwhelming challengers and matches, and that he'd seemingly vanished after all the great build-up to Halloween Havoc until now. But this whole sequence was a pivotal moment for me as a wrestling fan. Right now the sequence from the Nikita/Rude ending until this is the single best "Thing" of 1992, in any promotion.

[flyonthewall2983]

Was this show a whole episode of Saturday Night?

[Loss]

It was actually an episode of Worldwide. They re-showed the highlights a lot on other shows.

[PhilTLL]

"You know how long I've waited for this?" I dunno Ron, about 9 months or so, since Halloween Havoc? That aside, this is obviously a brilliant couple of segments and a pretty good match too. The sample size is small, but this is easily one of Vader's top 3-4 WCW singles matches to this point. One thing I've noticed about JCP/WCW crowds in recent viewing is that if they're really tense about a big match's outcome, they'll store up their heat (as opposed to the constant hollering you might find in a hot 6-man) until the absolutely massive finishing pop. For example this, RNR/Andersons 11/86, Dusty/Tully 7/85, etc.

 

The full match is on the 8/16 episode of Main Event, the History of the WHC DVD, and I'm sure a few other places. For maximum effect watch the Rude/Nikita/Sting/Jake segment, the drawing, and the full match. It's short enough that I can't believe they clipped it on SN, especially in a full length episode that had multiple long matches (including the Zbyszko arm break!). Watts literally says "We don't have enough time for the full match." I didn't know popping a rating on Main Event was worth it at this point in time.

[garretta]

Maybe at the time this was hot stuff. If so, it doesn't hold up well.

 

The drawing was okay, although I would have preferred some type of quickie battle royal or other type of competition. (Incidentally, that would have also eliminated Watts' paranoia about someone discovering how the drawing was worked.) I liked the interview afterward too, as Simmons acts like someone who won the World title after waking up in the morning as not even a top contender is supposed to act: overwhelmed, but still ready to do what he has to do to defend what is now his. This may be the best promo he's delivered so far, although it's admittedly a pretty small sample size.

 

The match doesn't thrill me at all. Either have Simmons go toe-to-toe with Vader from the start or work the underdog babyface routine, but don't split it down the middle. What do I mean? Simply that there's no way in hell someone whom Vader outweighs by two hundred pounds should take the equivalent of three full splashes (including a sitdown off of a failed sunset flip) and still be able to lift Vader at will and with ease. Hogan doing it to Bundy was bad enough, but the weight difference was about fifty (kayfabe) pounds less, plus Hogan was presented by Vince as superhuman. Simmons certainly wasn't here, yet this normal man did things that normal men shouldn't do unless a family member is trapped underneath a car or has a gun at their head, and without a bit of pain or exhaustion afterward.

 

Sorry, Cowboy, this little buckaroo ain't buyin', and Ron Simmons ain't the next JYD either, not nationally and not regionally. He can't talk like JYD, he can't work a crowd like JYD, and people are being told to care about him in place of the man they really want to cheer and have as their champion (Sting). Simmons is a good uppercard babyface and may be someone you want around to diversify the roster a bit for as long as he can work well, but he's not champion material under these circumstances or any others. Plus, how do you rebuild Vader after this? You trashed his (legitimate) excuse and had him thrown around by a man half his size. How are we supposed to buy him as a threat to anyone when he returns in a few months?

 

I'll have to check out the Jake attack on Sting. By the way, shouldn't that have been enough to get him into the drawing?

 

The celebration looked nice, but since I didn't really buy the match before it, the emotion was lost on me. Honestly, what should have happened is Sting retaining at the Bash, then the Jake attack here, only instead of the drawing have Vader beat Sting, which would have made the Jake feud even hotter than it was in real life. As for Simmons.......well, not much. I'll say it flat-out: if Simmons had been white or if the promoter had been anyone but Watts, he wouldn't have sniffed the belt that night; it probably would have been Windham, assuming the same scenario unfolded.

[Superstar Sleeze]

WCW World Heavyweight Champion Vader vs Ron Simmons - WCW Main Event 8/2/92

 

The full length match was shown on the August 2, 1992 edition of WCW Main Event.

 

It is weird to think about it, but Vader was merely a transitional champion in 1992. Bill Watts came in and wanted to go a different direction. He earmarked Ron Simmons as his new Junkyard Dog and wasted little time lifting the belt off Sting and putting it on Ron Simmons. The follow through may have been lacking, but this match was molten hot. The Baltimore crowd was rocking throughout and the roof damn near came off the place for the Simmons victory. I thought the shine was great. Vader is so selfless and Simmons was explosive with those tackles and the spinebuster. Vader was a killer in his heat segment. Absolutely superb. The Splash in the corner was huge. The strikes looked so crisp. Loved the escalation of hope spots from the kick out on the second rope splash to the vertical suplex, the backslide out of a short arm clothesline attempt as nifty to the sunset flip being squashed. You want Simmons to string something together but Vader is a monster. I cant say enough how good Vader looked in this. Then it happens. Simmons catches Vader with a powerslam. 1-2-3! History is made. The black kid jumping up and down in celebration is iconic and says more than any words could. Excellent match and title victory. ****

[dawho5]

As TV matches go, this is pretty amazing.  Watts, for all his faults and prejudices as a booker, knew how to get the crowd worked up and it's nice to see a guy like Simmons at least get this moment.  Regardless of the run he follows this with, I can't imagine he has ever forgotten that match or the post-match.  The promo was perfect for what it was supposed to be too.