NintendoLogic Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 Rey is breaking down. They need a new Hispanic draw that can move merchandise. It has nothing to do with the type of character or wrestler that Mistico was. It has everything to do with him being Mexican and wearing a mask that can be replicated and sold. So they found someone with a track record of drawing and brought him in. I'm not saying the mask and being Hispanic are the entirety of Rey's appeal, but that's the role Sin Cara was brought in to fill. I think this is the crux of the problem. Before coming to WWE, Rey had been working in the U.S. for about seven years. They didn't just want someone who can wear a mask and move merchandise like Rey does, they wanted someone who could work like him too and would be less of a headache than the demanding and injury prone prima donna that he was replacing. From that perspective, the signing has been a failure. Actually, I think what they've done with Sin Cara is pretty remarkable. They took a midget who doesn't speak English and can't work WWE style and built him up to the point where he was selling boatloads of $75 masks right out the gate, mostly to children who've never heard of Mistico or CMLL. They even managed to stick a completely different guy in the role with most of the audience being none the wiser. When you think about it, isn't this pretty much Vince's vision taken to its logical conclusion? The brand being the driving force with the actual wrestlers being interchangeable cogs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 $75 masks This is seriously what they are charging for a mask? What a fucking rip-off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted October 27, 2011 Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 At Vengeance, it was $60 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted October 27, 2011 Report Share Posted October 27, 2011 Where is tomk? I want a response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomk Posted November 18, 2011 Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 I'm not really sure how to respond. Primo was also brought up early ( and later the Carlito turn on him was explained as being) specifically because Rey was breaking down and they felt they needed a new Hispanic draw that could move merchandise. And yet Primo was never really booked in a way that would draw or move merchandise. The point is right now they are doing a nice job of protecting Mistico. Shown a commitment to him ("made attempt to make him fit in effecively"], more of a commitment to booking him carefully than they ever have shown for Rey. In the Punk promo thread Loss says about Cena: It's kind of amazing that he has had the run he has had, because I can't think of a single program he's had during his entire time on top except maybe the Umaga feud that I'd call "hot". Dude has overcome some horrendous booking. The WWE does a lousy job of protecting, building hot angles around, and promoting it's biggest star. Rey and Cena are guys who have drawn and sold merch but they haven't had a lot of points where they were booked well to draw or sell merch. I expect WWE signings to have to overcome counterproductive booking. I don't think Mistico is a guy who is equiped to do that. He isn't a guy who does what the WWE expects out of its workers, he doesn't do the things that allow Rey to connect with the audience and overcome the bookings. When someone says "makes sense on paper" I assume they mean is a good fit and can work within the system, work for that audience, without the fed having to make major changes to accomodate or the audience being retrained to understand. In mid 95 the writing was pretty much on the wall for Yokozuna, he was breaking down and Camp Cornette needed a big heavyweight replacement. In 95, Taue was having a pretty great year working as a big credible Japanese heavyweight who would still sell well opposite smaller opponents. If someone walked up to you at the summer of 95 and said that the WWF is signing Taue as they phase out Yokozuna, would you say "that makes sense on paper". It might have been awesome, but I don't think people would have been quick to say "looks good" or "makes sense" on "paper". And that's kind of an unfair analogy as I could see someone arguing that Taue works more like Yokozuna than Mistico works like Rey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted November 18, 2011 Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 Now you've got me imagining what a Taue vs Diesel match would've looked like circa '95. Or Taue vs Undertaker, Taue vs Bret, Taue vs Shawn... geez, the mind reels! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted November 18, 2011 Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 I think Mistico looked really good Monday working with Hunico. Hunico improved greatly after losing the mask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomk Posted November 18, 2011 Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 And I'm not sure why they have to establish that beating Averno means something. If Averno came in, it would just be someone he can have good matches with, someone that will make him look really good. I'm not sure why Averno needs to be any more established than that, the same way that most enhancement talent hasn't been established as long as pro wrestling has been around. Chavo has eaten Evan Bourne's offense really well, I have seen Chavo at house show eat Primo's offense really well. I thought Shannon Moore did a yeoman's job with broken down Ultimo. Enhancement talent doing a great job of eating a wrestler's offense doesn't mean as much as having main or semi-main eventers who can/will do a good job of putting over a wrestler's offense. Would bringing back the cruiserweight division strictly to accommodate Misticos strength of working from above with heels built specifically to work Mistico and eat his offense be a good idea, or do you cross your fingers that he learns to work outside of his comfort zone as a traditional underdog babyface? How would you do cruiserweight division in current "wellness" WWE with Vince's recent kick of listing wrestler's real weights? 200 lbs and below would have Hunico as heavyweight non-cruiser. The traditional pro-wrestling 105 kg and below (what's the origin of this?) would leave a WWE heavyweight division of 24 guys( Taker, Big Show, Sheamus, Kane, Jimmy Uso, Wade Barett, Johnny Curtis, Randy Orton, Mark Henry, Steven Regal, Great Khali, Alberto del Rio, Alex Riley, Brodus Clay, Drew Mcintyre, Santino Morella, Skip Sheffield, Mason Ryan, Kevin Nash, JTG, John Cena, Jack Swagger, Golddust and Ezekial Jackson). $75 masks This is seriously what they are charging for a mask? What a fucking rip-off. Before the Tajiri feud, when Hurricane and Rosey were jobbing with Ultimo,Rey, and Kidman (?) v Tajiri and partners run above them---they were selling out of those plastic Hurricane half masks for $30 a pop. The WWE merch table is an amazing thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 So how did Week 2 of Jericho go? John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 It was rendered irrelevant by the debut of the Funkasaurus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Just checking Martin's review... year, that Funkosaurus thing really makes me ponder whether it was worth missing the show last night. So what's the over/under on Mute Jericho? I'm guessing that Mike Johnson's sources must be dialed into where this is headed, and when. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 He lost me last night. It's not even that it's a bad idea, but it's that WWE panders to the lowest common denominator too much, and I think what Jericho is doing is too high concept for their average viewer now as a result. They just cheered away, not getting the irony at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 I think Clay's gimmick will either get over huge or sink like a stone, with no in between. I'm gonna say Jericho stays mute until the Monday after the Rumble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 So how did Week 2 of Jericho go? John Why was this posted in this thread? Couldn't figure out the connection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Looked at it as a general dumping thread for HHH Era WWE. Beats the heck out of me where the stuff from last week's thread was. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wahoos Leg Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 I think Clay's gimmick will either get over huge or sink like a stone, with no in between. I'm gonna say Jericho stays mute until the Monday after the Rumble. Only after he wins the Rumble... preferably by strolling into an empty ring at No. 30. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 So no Trip vs The Streak talk, with special Shawn cameo? John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Log Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 So no Trip vs The Streak talk, with special Shawn cameo? John I'm not a huge HHH hater or anything, but his whole reasoning for not wrestling Undertaker has basically come down to, "I would feel bad being the guy to end the streak." I don't know. Just something very condescending about the whole thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boondocks Kernoodle Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 I think the idea that HHH has a vested interest in the streak continuing that conflicts with his inner desire to end it is a good storyline. Now the promo where he basically said "none of these younger guys are as good as me, Shawn and Taker" was the bad part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Liska Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 It's an interesting story with HHH being conflicted about whether he's the corporate guy now or whether he's still the ruthless in-ring guy. I also liked Shawn questioning whether the bluster was all a front due to him being afraid of Taker. There's a lot to dig into over the next few weeks. HBK is advertised for several RAWs so he's really going to be involved, maybe he'll end up being the ref this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 Shawn was more intense in that promo than he's been in a while. Nice to see him focused and have a real set point instead of going the humble, gracious legend route Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 By the way, I must have missed something. I thought Vince returned a few months ago and removed all of HHH's power and HHH was just a wrestler now. Yet HHH has the authority to fire Laurinitis? When did that power go back from Vince to HHH? Is Vince still the storyline guy running things? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLIK Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 I THINK the storyline goes "the board of directors" let HHH stay in charge of WWE as a whole but made Ace the temporary guy in charge of RAW and Vince is still an agent for the board and has partial ownership but not the authority to make major changes anymore......aaannnnddddd now i've confused myself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boondocks Kernoodle Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 HHH was removed as Raw GM but he's still COO. And Vince is still chairman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Liska Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 HHH was removed as Raw GM but he's still COO. And Vince is still chairman. Yeah, apparently Vince broke down into tears in mid-ring last summer because he was devastated over losing his RAW GM powers or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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