jdw Posted September 19, 2011 Report Share Posted September 19, 2011 Meltz buried Cien Caras as a HOFer last night saying that he was never a HOF guy at any time of his career. Wow. Looks like we need to start the push for Groups again as a way to get the Dynamite Brothers in. BTW, since Cien Caras (and the Dynamite Brothers) were clearly a big draws, what would keep Cien out of the HOF? Could it be... Work? Can we put to bed the notion that Dave only looks at Wrestling now as Business and that it's the over riding thing on his HOF voting? Cien's work is enough to keep him out (though not enough to keep Carlos out). It's a pretty clear sign that work still has a big impact on Dave's voting. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted September 19, 2011 Report Share Posted September 19, 2011 I didn't hear this but I agree with John. Work clearly matters. I don't think Jericho gets in either without "work" either (which is kind of funny since I don't think he's an HoF level worker, but Dave's taste is what matters not mine). For Dave to say Cien was never an HoF level guy is borderline insane. I don't know enough to say whether he should be a slam dunk, but he sure as hell seems that way to me, and the point is that if I know that a Lucha guy was a big deal he's probably at MINIMUM a good candidate. Did Dave reveal who he voted for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted September 19, 2011 Report Share Posted September 19, 2011 Meltz buried Cien Caras as a HOFer last night saying that he was never a HOF guy at any time of his career. Wow. Looks like we need to start the push for Groups again as a way to get the Dynamite Brothers in. BTW, since Cien Caras (and the Dynamite Brothers) were clearly a big draws, what would keep Cien out of the HOF? Could it be... Work? Can we put to bed the notion that Dave only looks at Wrestling now as Business and that it's the over riding thing on his HOF voting? Cien's work is enough to keep him out (though not enough to keep Carlos out). It's a pretty clear sign that work still has a big impact on Dave's voting. John Did he say work was the reason he was never a HOF guy? If not, I'm putting anything to bed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted September 19, 2011 Report Share Posted September 19, 2011 Dave pretty much said there is an inverse relationship between watching Caras and thinking he is a HOFer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLIK Posted September 19, 2011 Report Share Posted September 19, 2011 Also interesting Dave said he'd have no prob putting Howard Finkle on the ballot, maybe nxt year if he doesn't forget by then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted September 19, 2011 Report Share Posted September 19, 2011 Dave hasn't revealed and won't until the issue comes out but he said in a read between the lines way that Cien's work ability is the reason. He mentioned that Cien was a top guy with the Dinamitas forever but made it seem like it wasn't that important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Evans Posted September 19, 2011 Report Share Posted September 19, 2011 I was surprised to learn after listening to last nights show that Howard Finkel hasn't been put on the ballot yet. I assumed he was already in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted September 20, 2011 Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 What is the case for the Fink? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted September 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 What is the case for the Fink?Jimmy Lennon going in with the first class setting a precedent for ring announcers beinv eligible and Fink being the only other one who belongs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Posted September 20, 2011 Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 Yeah. If Jimmy Lennon is in then Howard Finkel absolutely should be in. There isn't a ring announcer within several miles of Finkel's credentials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted September 20, 2011 Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 What is the case for the Fink? Greatest ring wrestling announcer ever ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted September 20, 2011 Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 Ugh, at Bruce Mitchell talking on his Torch radio show about how Big Daddy killed the British wrestling scene by being pushed on top for too long and left people with a sour taste in their mouths. It was a lot more complicated than that and had a lot to do with how ITV handled wrestling in the late 1980s (after World Of Sport was taken off the air, wrestling had its own show, but the time slot changed on a regular basis and eventually was axed even though it still drew pretty well) and the exposure of American wrestling in the market during that time period. Also, if you talk to casual fans from that era about British wrestling they often recall Daddy with fondness. I'm not the biggest Daddy backer for the HOF, but it's bad when a voter in a particular region shows such a biased understanding of the history of that territory. The British wrestling scene began struggling in the early 80s. Even before World of Sport was taken off the air, Joint Promotions was running fewer shows. The defections to All Star Promotions left it looking like '93 CMLL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted September 20, 2011 Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 Ugh, at Bruce Mitchell talking on his Torch radio show about how Big Daddy killed the British wrestling scene by being pushed on top for too long and left people with a sour taste in their mouths. It was a lot more complicated than that and had a lot to do with how ITV handled wrestling in the late 1980s (after World Of Sport was taken off the air, wrestling had its own show, but the time slot changed on a regular basis and eventually was axed even though it still drew pretty well) and the exposure of American wrestling in the market during that time period. Also, if you talk to casual fans from that era about British wrestling they often recall Daddy with fondness. I'm not the biggest Daddy backer for the HOF, but it's bad when a voter in a particular region shows such a biased understanding of the history of that territory. The British wrestling scene began struggling in the early 80s. Even before World of Sport was taken off the air, Joint Promotions was running fewer shows. The defections to All Star Promotions left it looking like '93 CMLL. Yeah, that's true. But the way Bruce talked it was like Joint Promotions had a monopoly on the British wrestling scene. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted September 20, 2011 Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 What is the case for the Fink?Jimmy Lennon going in with the first class setting a precedent for ring announcers beinv eligible and Fink being the only other one who belongs? Boyd Pierce should get in due to his awesome jackets alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted September 20, 2011 Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 That Dr. X shirt and mask in the left background is great. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted September 20, 2011 Report Share Posted September 20, 2011 That fan was at almost all of those tapings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted September 21, 2011 Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 That fan should be in the Hall of Fame Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted September 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 For what it's worth, I was looking at the WC thread and noticed that Yohe posted the full ballot cover letter. Not sure when he changed it (John, maybe you can go back and check?), but Dave referred to what had been called the "reporters" group of voters in the past as "writers." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted September 21, 2011 Report Share Posted September 21, 2011 It was: "This ballot is being sent out to major wrestling stars, past and present, major management figures in the industry, writers and historians." In 2009. I don't know if I've got the earlier ones: Dave use to send most of them to my work e-mail, and they would have rolled off by now. The earliest ones might be in my Pegasus Mail archive. Think it's been "writers" for a little while, though he may use the word interchangeably with "reporters" in the results issue. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted September 22, 2011 Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 Matt Farmer responded to my Blackwell stuff at Classics claiming that the attendance figures prove that Hogan was the real draw. No word yet on how Hogan drew so well for the AWA in 84 when he was working for Vince. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dooley Posted September 22, 2011 Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 Matt Farmer responded to my Blackwell stuff at Classics claiming that the attendance figures prove that Hogan was the real draw. No word yet on how Hogan drew so well for the AWA in 84 when he was working for Vince. Verne's notorious for advertising guys who had already jumped ship. Is it that hard to believe he continued billing Hogan through '84? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khawk20 Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 Matt Farmer responded to my Blackwell stuff at Classics claiming that the attendance figures prove that Hogan was the real draw. No word yet on how Hogan drew so well for the AWA in 84 when he was working for Vince. That's not unusual, there is a lot of AWA "ignorance" on WC. It'll be an uphill climb to get most of the board even interested in the idea of how much Blackwell meant to the AWA. Most seem to be stuck in "Verne was stoopid!!!!11" mode these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted September 24, 2011 Report Share Posted September 24, 2011 New amusing development as McAdam does a run in, cherry picks my original post (ignoring points where I agree with him in the process) and then scoffs at the notion that Jerry was clearly the biggest draw in the AWA in 84 citing Bock, Martel, Brody and the Roadies. If you look at the results it is almost impossible to make a case for any of those goes over Jerry for the year and the inclusion of Brody is literally the stuff of delusion. So first it was "Blackwell never drew without Hogan" which is an obvious falsehood totally at odds with the evidence. That number didn't work so now it is "Blackwell wasn't as big a draw in the AWA in 84 as Bruiser Brody" which makes the Hogan claim look like the Law of Gravity by comparison. To be fair to McAdam he made some relevant points of criticism, but it is pretty clear that the "Jerry Blackwell? lol!" crowd is deliberately misrepresenting the data from 84 because to accept the facts as they are would make a blanket dismissal of his candidacy far more difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted September 24, 2011 Report Share Posted September 24, 2011 It's going to be hard to win over the Meltz disciples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted September 24, 2011 Report Share Posted September 24, 2011 I knew it would be difficult but it is amusing to see the "We have no clue who was really a draw!" talking point trotted out by McAdam this early in the discussion which tells me that it is going to be impossible to get a fair hearing out of a lot of these people. Received Wisdom of Wrestling Gods cannot be challenged! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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