2011 Observer Hall of Fame thread

[Mad Dog]

See, even worse. HHH might be the worst draw of the last decade. His big run in 2002-2003 was a huge loser for a company that's used to making money. HHH has no business being in any HoF unless we find one for fucking your way to the top.

 

There's no argument you can make against Sting that isn't 100x more true about HHH.

[Dylan Waco]

If the argument is X should get in because he's a better candidate than Kurt Angle, there are hundreds of guys who need to go in ASAP. Many of them before Sting.

[Tim Evans]

Antonio Pena should go in before Sting and Angle. How is he not even nominated?

[Loss]

Jerry Jarrett not being in is to me the biggest and most overlooked omission of all.

[shoe]

I think basing someone's candidacy against someone who is already in is an easy way to make an argument. I don't think the HOF should be judged on a Bell's Curve grading scale. It's kinda like when people complain about a match not making an 80's set, or a yearbook set etc. It's based on a team voting on these things. Their are differences like the 80's set teams and yearbooks teams ask for nominations. Though it still comes down to the team's votes. Are their flaws on who is voting. Yes their are. I remember Cabana saying he didn't vote for the Rock N Roll Express because when Gibson was working FCW he called a move wrong. Is that fair? Not to me.

[Victator]

I find a system where Colt Cabana gets to judge the Rock & Roll Express to be broken.

[Guest CompletePlayer]

Antonio Pena should go in before Sting and Angle. How is he not even nominated?

I am pretty sure that Pena got in the WON HOF during the initial 1996 class

[Johnny Sorrow]

Jerry Jarrett not being in is to me the biggest and most overlooked omission of all.

I was surprised that Albano wasn't already in. As far as managers go, he was a major part of a ton of money making programs over the course of his career I'd imagine and he's the reason the Rock N' Wrestling thing happened. If he hadn't been in that Cyndi Lauper video, then no MTV involvement in wrestling.

[Paul Jacobi]

Antonio Pena should go in before Sting and Angle. How is he not even nominated?

I am pretty sure that Pena got in the WON HOF during the initial 1996 class

 

 

Pena did indeed go in in the initial class.

[FLIK]

I remember Cabana saying he didn't vote for the Rock N Roll Express because when Gibson was working FCW he called a move wrong. Is that fair? Not to me.

When/whear did he say this?

[shoe]

I believe Bix had a podcast last year talking about the Observer HOF with Cabana as a guest. Cabana showed a wealth of knowledge about the European canidates. In General I feel he is much more deserving than some of the people who write for the Observer. The comment about Gibson kinda stuck with me because I think the Rock N Roll should be in the HOF.

[jdw]

Funny you should mention Taue. I've been thinking lately that maybe the WON HOF should be like the Rock & Roll HOF and allow multiple inductees. Take Terry Gordy, for example. He's in as a member of the Freebirds, but he also probably merits inclusion as a singles competitor. As for Taue, he might be borderline as a singles guy, but he has a much stronger case as a member of the Holy Demon Army. But Kawada is already in, and in any case, it'd be ludicrous to prioritize Kawada's tag work over his singles career.

I think before folks get to the Holy Demon Army as a way to Taue into the HOF, they really needs to work on Ishingundan / Choshu's Army first.

 

John

[Robert S]

Is there any reason that continental Europe is basically ignored other than Dave not knowing much about its history? I mean if Big Daddy is on the list is there any reason why Wanz shouldn't be too?

[WrestlingPower]

At least theoretically, someone who would go in solely to mostly on in ring work would have to be so overwhelmingly great in the ring that it outweighs the rest. There are very, very few people in e HOF based solely on that criteria. Daniels flamed out in...what, 2003? 2004? He's just a less successful Jerry Lynn.

I don't know that he ever flamed out so much as people maybe got tired of his style. Even by that point you could practically call his match. Not unlike Bret Hart during his prime. And I really do think his work is in the same category as Benoit, Eddy, guys like that already in. In early ROH he was clearly seen as the biggest star there and was a draw for them. I guess this argument is just a piece of my frustration over Meltzer ignoring the indies' place in the wrestling scene & treats them as insignificant compared to the "major leagues" so I pointed out that Daniels had an extended stay in the #2 promotion in the country for most of the past 8 years. I'm just saying if you were to add an indy guy he would be a good one to add. And depending on how the next few years of Danielson's career go I wouldn't think it would be too wacky of an assertion that his work is at that level as well, in fact as a worker he's certainly better than Daniels and meant more to ROH.

[Dylan Waco]

Danielson is a better candidate than Daniels

 

Neither guy should be in.

 

Even if we restricted it to U.S. based candidates, I'm not even sure Daniels would be one of the five hundred "best" candidates not on the ballot.

[NintendoLogic]

I guess this argument is just a piece of my frustration over Meltzer ignoring the indies' place in the wrestling scene & treats them as insignificant compared to the "major leagues"

Aren't they, though?

[Jingus]

Talking about Danielson in the HOF is very premature. He's still a relatively young and very active wrestler in his prime, and his career could go in so many different directions that we couldn't possibly predict. A year from now he could be world champion, or a jobber, or retired due to unforeseen injuries. Christopher Daniels is somewhat similar, but he has been doing this several years longer.

 

I just don't get the point of a HOF where you induct people who are still performing. I know that wrestling makes it harder than any other industry to tell when someone is officially "retired", but I don't understand why you would want to have people on the list who are clearly still in the middle of an ongoing career.

[jdw]

WON Most Outstanding Wrestler Awards

1986 Ric Flair

1987 Ric Flair

1988 Tatsumi Fujinami

1989 Ric Flair

1990 Jushin Liger

1991 Jushin Liger

1992 Jushin Liger

1993 Kenta Kobashi

1994 Kenta Kobashi

1995 Manami Toyota

1996 Rey Mysterio, Jr.

1997 Mitsuharu Misawa

1998 Koji Kanemoto

1999 Mitsuharu Misawa

2000 Chris Benoit

2001 Kurt Angle

2002 Kurt Angle

2003 Kurt Angle

2004 Chris Benoit

2005 Samoa Joe

2006 Bryan Danielson

2007 Bryan Danielson

2008 Bryan Danielson

2009 Bryan Danielson

2010 Daniel Bryan

 

Everyone who has won it more than once is in. Bryan has won it five straight years.

 

Other than Bryan, only Kanemoto and Joe aren't in. Kanemoto's was odd at the time, and he kind of stands out in the "Which of these is not like the other" in terms of how they were viewed over a number of years. Joe is a strange beast because he went to TNA and to a large degree stalled there, despite pushes here and there.

 

Bryan went to the WWE and still won.

 

I would be willing to bet that Bryan gets in at some point in the next 10 years as "the best worker of his generation".

 

John

[Al]

Talking about Danielson in the HOF is very premature. He's still a relatively young and very active wrestler in his prime, and his career could go in so many different directions that we couldn't possibly predict. A year from now he could be world champion, or a jobber, or retired due to unforeseen injuries. Christopher Daniels is somewhat similar, but he has been doing this several years longer.

 

I just don't get the point of a HOF where you induct people who are still performing. I know that wrestling makes it harder than any other industry to tell when someone is officially "retired", but I don't understand why you would want to have people on the list who are clearly still in the middle of an ongoing career.

This is my big beef as well. Like or hate Kurt Angle, there's no doubt he went in WAY too soon. We need more perspective on candidates before we can evaluate them. IMO, it's really too early to put Edge or Batista in perspective. Or Christopher Daniels for that matter.

 

I'm a fan of a 25 years after debut rule, same as the Rock 'n' Roll Hall of Fame.

[shoe]

Gene & Ole Anderson

Carlos Colon

Ivan Koloff

Dick Murdoch

Rock & Roll Express

Sgt. Slaughter

Sting

Mr. Wrestling II

Bill Apter

Jerry Jarrett

 

This would be my ballot. Guys who I feel should be on the ballot are :

 

Buddy Rose

Jake Roberts

Steiner Bros

Bill Dundee

Finley

[Dylan Waco]

El Dandy should be on the ballot.

[shoe]

El Dandy should be on the ballot.

Agreed

[KrisZ]

Tommy Rich not being on the ballot is pretty ridiculous to me. I didn't think of him when we did Segunda Caida radio on Thursday but damn he was one of the biggest stars in the business for a good 5 year span.

[Dylan Waco]

Yeah Rich seems like a huge omission

[Jingus]

I'm surprised that Roberts isn't in the hall, let alone not even being on the ballot. For sheer fame alone, he's hard to beat. He achieved that weird sort of mainstream celebrity which most wrestlers never get; there's probably plenty of ex-casual-fans out there who have no idea who Ric Flair is but will instantly recognize the name Jake The Snake. His use of the DDT was a major influence on how lots of guys today utilize their finishers, and almost every "evil mastermind" character in the past twenty years have stolen some stuff from his act.