[1995-03-26-AJW-Wrestling Queendom: Victory] Lioness Asuka vs Yumiko Hotta

[Loss]

Talk about it here.

[El-P]

Overrated. Just punching the fuck out of each other doesn't make a match good. Having this but not the awesome Bull Nakano vs Kyoko Inoue match is quite the faux pas.

[MJH]

My opinion of this was similar to Jerome's, but I'd defend it's inclusion through reputation. It's something I haven't went back to in forever, so I guess there's a chance I'd have a different take on it, but neither are exactly my favourites.

 

On the grounds of Bull/Kyoko, I recall telling Loss that 3/26 and 9/2 are pretty similar, with 3/26 being the better match but 9/2 having Kyoko's big win so it's probably best to do one or the other. It looks like both got cut somewhere along the way .

[Loss]

My opinion of this was similar to Jerome's, but I'd defend it's inclusion through reputation. It's something I haven't went back to in forever, so I guess there's a chance I'd have a different take on it, but neither are exactly my favourites.

 

On the grounds of Bull/Kyoko, I recall telling Loss that 3/26 and 9/2 are pretty similar, with 3/26 being the better match but 9/2 having Kyoko's big win so it's probably best to do one or the other. It looks like both got cut somewhere along the way .

Yes, Bull/Kyoko was not forgotten. We just had no space to include it.

[MJH]

So long as the '91 match goes on...

[jdw]

Bull/Kyoko would be good additions to the "Additional Matches" set. I think some of us get bummed when something isn't on the set, but we probably should just advocate such matches to make the ETC set and have a good vibe that it will turn out to be a good set in its own right.

 

As an example, take a look at Beatles 1. 27 songs. Loads of classics. But given the guidelines of putting it together, a lot of great Beatles songs aren't on it. Not just great album tracks like Day In The Life, but even songs that were hits on the singles charts in either they US or UK such as Please Please Me, Strawberry Fields Forever, Revolution, Twist and Shout, And I Love Her and Nowhere Man. If you were to compile another 78 minute CD of Beatles songs that were great and didn't make Beatles 1... you'd end up with an amazing awesome CD. Or if, instead, you compiled *two* additional CD's rather than just one, and had songs that weren't on Beatles 1... it would fucking rule.

 

There's a lot of cool stuff that Will and Loss had to cut because of space... even with all the space that they had to work with each year. So my thought would be that folks keep adding it into the Additional Matches section. What we might find out is that there's another 10-30 DVDs of ETC material, which would be pretty freaking cool. Don't be shy in tossing stuff in there. There may be some stuff of historical value that didn't make the cut. There also may be some stuff that's not really all that great, but is of value to see. Example:

 

I'm kind of mixed on advocating the 10/93 Misawa vs Hansen TC match. It's just not good. On the other hand, 1993 is Hansen's career year, and also the year where Misawa makes the big leap forward to become The Man in AJPW. If we're trying to figure out who is the best worker among Misawa, Kawada, Kobashi and Hansen in the promotion that year (and where they fit among the best in the world), it's kind of worth while to see Hansen & Misawa work a dog and not think *every* time they faced each other in 1993 (there were four of them) that they're at the level of 5/93. The Carny Final earlier in the year is kind of "just there" as well. Triple Crown match and Carny Final... two big matches, and kind of doggish.

 

Perhaps it doesn't make the ETC cut. But there is no harm in tossing out additional matches for Will & Loss to consider. If we end up having all of Bull's Big Red matches on the Yearbooks except for one, we having the perception that Bull nailed it every time out. If that one was a bit of a dog, it might be worthwhile to pimp it for the ETC set. You're still not going to have pimping in the range of 50/50 Great-Cool Matches vs Important Dogs... simply because few people even think to toss out a dog. But if you end up with 5% to 10% that are worth watching but but great... that's not bad.

 

I don't recall if the Hogan & Savage vs The World clusterfuck cage match made the cut on the Yearbook. I could see it being left off with just the finish making it. But it is one of the most famous epically shitty matches of all time. So if there's LOTS of good-great matches to load up a lot of disc for an ETC set, then carving out the time for that shitty match probably isn't a bad thing.

 

If a 30 disc ETC set seems like a lot, think of it this way:

 

30 discs / 10 years = 3 ETC disc per year

 

That... isn't that much when you look at it that way. I think we could all look at 1995 or 1993 and think of 3 bonus discs of material.

 

So pimp away over in the Additional Matches thread.

 

John

[FLIK]

I enjoyed this match although after years of hearing the hype about it I didn't think it lived up to it's rep.

 

Bull/Kyoko from this show was one of the very first joshi matches I ever saw after downloading it way back in the old hotline connect days and it never did anything for me. First impression was that it was horribly boring and draged on and on. I re-watched it last a couple years ago and I still didn't care much for it then.

 

9/2/95 i've never seen, of the 3 other Bull/Kyoko matches I have watched I agree 91 is def the best although their 94 match is right up thear too.

 

Weird pairing in that all their matches always seemed to be either MOTYC or totally forgetable/average with like no in between

[Loss]

One thing I will be asking people to do when I send them recommendations to go through in the future is put everything in tiers. The first tier is stuff that absolutely cannot be cut regardless. Tier 2 isn't a must, but it's a strong recommendation. Tier 3 would be nice to include if there's room. That will make things much easier at crunch time.

[Loss]

Also ... so everyone dislikes this match? Who gave it the rep it has then?

[FLIK]

It was a DVDVR fave back in the day. Placed #5 on their best joshi of the 90's poll. Had a strong rep a few other places too.

 

Again, I liked it myself, don't think it's a bad pick for the set at all, I just wouldn't call it top 5 for the year let alone the entire decade.

[jdw]

Also ... so everyone dislikes this match? Who gave it the rep it has then?

I'm pretty sure Dave gave it ****1/2 or ****3/4. Not to defend or vouch for him, all I can say is that sitting one seat over in Yokohama Arena... it was one motherfucker of a spectacle *live*. Very different from what you expected to see in an AJW ring.

 

Haven't watched it in ages. I do wonder how it stands up in that Frye-Takayama, Frye-Shamrock, Griffin-Bonnar, Guida-Griffin "this shit don't make a fucking bit of sense in a shoot... but I'm watching it in a fucking shoot" sense, if you know what I mean. Or goofy shit like Matt Hughes being pretty much Knocked Out by Trigg, then damn near Submitted by Trigg, than lifting Trigg up, running across the ring and slamming Trigg like a Motherfucker, then Chocking Trigg Out... all in one batshit crazy *round*....

 

 

That doesn't even do it justice in edited form for just how insane it was (especially watching it on PPV as it happened).

 

So maybe all the goofiness of Lioness-Hotta isn't so goofy in hindsight.

 

John

[soup23]

I know on Tim Noels podcast, this was one of the first matches Dean brought up as being on the set and he said it was one of his favorite matches back in the day.

[MJH]

Sayama/Dymaite's series may have been torn a new one by the people watching the set, but it was one of the most essential matches for the NJ '80 set. This isn't that... but by finishing 5th on the DVDR poll for the decade and getting 4.5/4.75 from Meltzer, it had to be included.

[Loss]

I thought this was really, really good. There's lots to like and I think some people will find it really easy to get into. The only problem for me is not the way this match is worked, but more the amount of time it got. It should have been 10 minutes at the most. The punches and headbutts and mat wrestling are all pretty awesome, but after a while, I felt like I had seen everything they were going to do and there was no reason for the match to keep going.

[Phil Schneider]

Also ... so everyone dislikes this match? Who gave it the rep it has then?

I remember liking it a bunch when it happened.

[Loss]

I know on Tim Noels podcast, this was one of the first matches Dean brought up as being on the set and he said it was one of his favorite matches back in the day.

They mentioned the yearbook on the podcast? Cool.

[soup23]

Will was on the podcast so you can be assured plenty of shilling was going on.

[Childs]

Just punching the fuck out of each other doesn't make a match good.

I don't know; it goes a long way for me.

[Tim Evans]

So what was the story about this match? Was it supposed to be Fake MMA or something? I kinda liked it. Could have been shorter like Loss said but the punches were nice.

[FLIK]

Was it supposed to be Fake MMA or something?

Yeah more of a shoot style match is what they were aiming for

[PeteF3]

Hey everybody, who likes the Brawl for All?! Anyone? If you do, who wants to see a Brawl-for-All match go 24 minutes? Anyone? Bueller?

 

Yeah. I don't like Hotta to begin with and Asuka is little more than a name with a reputation to me at this point. So I had no emotional involvement in the match, so it's just two ladies occasionally stiffing each other and occasionally whiffing entirely. Calling it a 24-minute Brawl-for-All isn't *quite* fair, as they do other stuff--like power bombs, more power bombs, attempted power bombs, countered power bombs, and variations of power bombs. Hotta eventually knocks Asuka out and thank God this is over.

[ohtani's jacket]

#357

 

Another match not watched in donkey's years.

 

This was kind of an experimental MMA style bout. Not the first of its kind in Joshi but definitely the most well known. It reminded me a bit of those Don Nakaya Nielsen fights from the 80s in that it was clearly dated but still retained some of its novelty value. A few things hurt it. Firstly, there were no rope breaks and they were allowed to fight on the outside. Secondly, the submissions were sold like regular Joshi submission holds, which meant that they lay in the holds forever. This was particularly hard to watch having just seen some higher end UWF-i. The stand up fighting was better than the submission wrestling, though they used too many pro-wrestling moves down the stretch. Thankfully, they returned to striking and Hotta's kick at the end was brutal looking.

 

I thought this was watchable but it wasn't something I particularly liked. There's plenty of better hybrid stuff from the 90s in my view.

[Zenjo]

One of the most brutal matches ever seen in an AJW ring. They were both bleeding from the mouth after the first minute. They proceeded to beat the tar out of each other for the whole duration. They wore gloves and delivered plenty of punches to the head as well as hard kicks. 0 out of 10 dentists recommend this. For the most part it was shoot style strikes and submissions. Hotta found out the hard way the advantage conferred to the attacker when there are no rope breaks.

 

Early on it sure wasn't pretty, but was captivating in its brutality. Later they began adding a few pro moves and down count spots. This really added to the drama and got the crowd involved. After a real war it was Hotta that just came through the fire. She had to take quite a beating, at times screaming out in pain. A memorable battle and a testament to the toughness of both ladies.

[cactus]

This is UFC rules, which means there's no rope breaks, and victory can only be achieved by submission or knockout. They wail on each other with some violent stiff shots that open up both women. Props on them for going the extra mile to make this legitimate. This started to drag when they started working holds as neither wrestler was interesting on the ground. It's not too long before they start throwing bombs again and I started to enjoy this again. Hotta served as an acceptable babyface, but Lioness Asuka was fantastic at cutting off Hotta's comebacks. I wouldn't quite call this shoot-style because of all the big pro-style moves in the finishing stretch, but this sure was a spectacle.  

★★★¼

[Calvin]

I appreciate how stiffly these two lay their punches & kicks in here, but their credulity quickly became strained by the excessive length of the match, and the lack of rope breaks meant they were able to milk the fuck out of boring ass holds to fill time. 

**1/4