tomk Posted March 25, 2012 Report Share Posted March 25, 2012 I don't know if he did. But Meltzer suggested that he might (that doing so would be in character for Vince). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLIK Posted March 25, 2012 Report Share Posted March 25, 2012 I've heard that too, there's also the reports along similar lines of Vince cutting guys off for not "keeping their women in line" such as Morrison w Melina & Drew w Tiffany. Firstly: those are all WWE, not TNA. For TNA there was the Punk/Teddy Hart fight For WWE there was the JBL/Blue Meanie incident, the APA/Public Enemy incident, the multiple things Bob Holly did, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted March 25, 2012 Report Share Posted March 25, 2012 One wrestler stiffing another in a match is a whole different can o' worms from a wrestler attacking a non-wrestler in the back. When it happens in the ring, there's not much chance of legal recourse: "Well, your honor, I knew he was gonna be hitting me and I'd signed a complete waiver; but he wasn't supposed to be hitting me that hard!" isn't a great legal strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted March 25, 2012 Report Share Posted March 25, 2012 http://collegetimes.us/the-15-coolest-college-courses/ CLASS: Topics in Comparative Media: American Pro Wrestling UNIVERSITY: Massachusetts Institute of Technology The Comparative Media Studies Department at Massachusetts Institute of Technology gets “raw” with students, as it dedicates a whole class to the study of American professional wrestling. No folks, Hulk Hogan does not teach this class and the coursework goes a bit more in-depth than the wrestler’s round-house moves. “American Pro Wrestling” allows students to explore the cultural history and media coverage surrounding the masculine drama of professional wrestling, while moving chronologically in an examination of how wrestling characters and performances have changed since the industry’s inception. So which one of you guys is lecturing here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomk Posted March 25, 2012 Report Share Posted March 25, 2012 Lee Benaka was a guest speaker for that class once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFTV Posted March 25, 2012 Report Share Posted March 25, 2012 Boxing Historian Bert Sugar passed away today a the age of 74 of cancer. Sugar penned w/Captain Lou Albano an Idiots Guide to Pro Wrestling book at the tale end of the wrestling boom in the early 00s. How into pro graps was Sugar as I always thought about him as Mr. Boxing Scribe? When I close my eyes and think about what a boxing writer would look and sound like Sugar's image comes to my mind because of his trademark cigar, fedora hat, raspy voice, and great tales. Sugar was always one of the best sports radio interviews when there was a big fight on the horizon. He'll definitely be missed as there aren't many real life characters like Bert anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 http://collegetimes.us/the-15-coolest-college-courses/ CLASS: Topics in Comparative Media: American Pro Wrestling UNIVERSITY: Massachusetts Institute of Technology The Comparative Media Studies Department at Massachusetts Institute of Technology gets “raw” with students, as it dedicates a whole class to the study of American professional wrestling. No folks, Hulk Hogan does not teach this class and the coursework goes a bit more in-depth than the wrestler’s round-house moves. “American Pro Wrestling” allows students to explore the cultural history and media coverage surrounding the masculine drama of professional wrestling, while moving chronologically in an examination of how wrestling characters and performances have changed since the industry’s inception. So which one of you guys is lecturing here? I took a class at the University of Victoria in 2007 called Pro Wrestling as Theatre. We looked at wrestling history and compared match set ups and angles/gimmicks to Italian comedy improve theatre, ancient Greek theatre, 19th century melodrama, etc. It was a dream class and super fun, and I took it just for the hell of it, because it didn't tie into any of my degree requirements. I was of course the star pupil of the class The prof and I became good friends, as we share the same geeky interests in wrestling, comics, movies, and music. The next year I even gave a guest lecture (I talked to the class about the importance of the NWA title in the territory days and played the Flair vs Steamboat Chi-Town Rumble match). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 I have to ask - how many women were in these classes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 Actually, far more than you would think. First off, the ratio of women to men at UVic is about 60-40. In the class I attended, I would say it was 65% male. The next year, for the class I lectured, it was seriously closer to a 50-50 split. Most of the students in the class had little to no interest in wrestling, though. In the class I attended, there were only about 3-4 hardcore fans, including myself, out of 20-25 students. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 Sugar was only 74? Looking at him, I figured he was at least a decade older. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 It was always embarrassing when Bert talked about pro wrestling. He had absolutely no clue. In his report today Meltz said he had very little knowledge but the media always went to him when a story broke and yes I can't believe he was only 74 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 He did the Idiots Guide with Albano, and Wrestling's Great Grudge Matches with Napolitano. It's likely Napolitano did 98% of the work, and Sugar was used to get the book published. Sugar came across as a great storyteller in boxing, but you also had the feeling that if you fact checked his stories, 50% of them would either be stretching things or total bullshit. Old school storyteller where the story quality was more important than reality. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 Lee Benaka was a guest speaker for that class once. That is awesome. And fuck Bubba the Love Sponge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 As money mark wannabe wrestlers go, Insane Clown Posse > Shane McMahon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 As long as John Cena has been on top of WWE, has he ever made anyone? Has anyone ever even benefit from being in a feud with him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted March 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 Aside from Chris Jericho, Kurt Angle, HHH, Edge, Umaga, Shawn Michaels, Rob Van Dam, Batista, Wade Barrett, The Miz and CM Punk all benefitting from doing programs with Cena, you mean? I've only been half-ass watching during most of his run, and even I know that. "Who hasn't?" would produce a shorter list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 OK, I don't think you understand what I'm asking, not when the first names listed are Chris Jericho and Kurt Angle, whom were obviously already stars well before John Cena showed up. I could actually argue that they made him, really. Has John Cena ever made anyone? Wade Barrett is still a nobody. RVD was big before Cena. The Miz is in a hole. C.M. Punk I can see an argument being made for. Umaga is a good one, actually. Shawn Michaels was one of the best EVER before Cena was even in WWE... The only person that really comes to mind that Cena has even partially tried with is Zack Ryder and he's a fuckin' jobber going nowhere. As far as The Miz is concerned, Cena KILLED him. That dude is done. The PPV where it was basically a 2-vs-1 Handicap hardcore match where Cena was beatdown for 20 minutes by both Alex Riley AND The Miz only for him to no-sell it all, slap on his lazy STF and have The Miz tap out instantly? The Miz, from going to winning in the Main Event of Wrestlemania last year to barely making the card this year? That's pretty much the exact opposite of what I'm looking for. Cena has killed that dude. And no one took him seriously going into his 'Mania match either because Cena just dismisses anything anyone ever says and smiles, the same shit he's been doing to The Rock the whole time. Cena's idea of being "serious" is reverting back into white rapper mode and throwing out gay jokes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 It's generally not the job of the company ace to make guys unless he's on his way out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 Jesus Christ, enough about the stupid fucking STF already. It looks fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted March 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 OK, I don't think you understand what I'm asking, not when the first names listed are Chris Jericho and Kurt Angle, whom were obviously already stars well before John Cena showed up. I could actually argue that they made him, really. Has John Cena ever made anyone? Wade Barrett is still a nobody. RVD was big before Cena. The Miz is in a hole. C.M. Punk I can see an argument being made for. Umaga is a good one, actually. Shawn Michaels was one of the best EVER before Cena was even in WWE... The only person that really comes to mind that Cena has even partially tried with is Zack Ryder and he's a fuckin' jobber going nowhere. As far as The Miz is concerned, Cena KILLED him. That dude is done. The PPV where it was basically a 2-vs-1 Handicap hardcore match where Cena was beatdown for 20 minutes by both Alex Riley AND The Miz only for him to no-sell it all, slap on his lazy STF and have The Miz tap out instantly? The Miz, from going to winning in the Main Event of Wrestlemania last year to barely making the card this year? That's pretty much the exact opposite of what I'm looking for. Cena has killed that dude. I'm genuinely surprised that you would ask that question. But you asked if anyone had ever benefitted from working a program with Cena, and all of those guys have in different ways. WWE hasn't made any new tippety-top guys in a really long time, which is why you can't point to too many guys who were nothing and became something. But you can point to plenty of guys who have left programs with Cena in a better condition than they were going in. Edge, Punk and Umaga are the big ones, with everyone else managing to have good runs on top. The reason I listed Jericho was because he had a pretty lackluster last two years or so, went out on top with two good matches and came back pushed as a top guy making big money. It's because the last memory people had of him was doing good things in the main event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 It's generally not the job of the company ace to make guys unless he's on his way out.Well maybe they should when they don't have any guys. You can't bring back Triple H, The Undertaker, Shawn Michaels & The Rock forever to sell your shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 That's the oddest Cena criticism I've heard yet. Agree with NintendoLogic. If Cena doesn't go over most of his opponents, he ceases to be a strong draw. And Cena hardly buries his opponents. I'd throw Cryme Tyme and R-Truth on Loss's list as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 I'd add Orton to Loss' list. Orton, before the 2007 feud with Cena, was very inconsistent as far as being a main eventer goes. The initial title run and feud with HHH not exactly doing much for him, the Undertaker feud helping somewhat but not propelling him into the stratusphere, playing arguably third fiddle in the WM22 feud, moreless buried in the DX feud leaving him in only a MITB spot for Mania 23. Cena feud was a contributer to making him more of a consistent main eventer, followed by the Hardy feud. As for Kurt, I think the late 2005 stuff helped get him over as a babyface, similar to HHH's feud with Cena in early 2006. It was effective too, as he was clearly booked as the star of the WM22 three-way in spite of losing and had a babyface run up until his departure was fairly effective, as opposed to his previous babyface runs that didn't really mean anything. Also, that Cena feud happened after a pretty ineffective series with HBK that arguably produced good matches, but didn't mean much for either guy (aside from maybe getting HBK over as a guy who can keep up with Angle wrestling-wise). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 Jesus Christ, enough about the stupid fucking STF already. It looks fine. How can it look fine when he doesn't even apply a facelock? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 It's generally not the job of the company ace to make guys unless he's on his way out. Austin made Rock, even while "winning" the feud. Austin & Rock made Foley. Vince, Rock & Foley made Trip. Flair made Sting. Flair long before that made Steamboat in Mid Atlantic. The number of wrestlers that Baba to a degree "made" in Japan is long. Rikidozan made Destroyer. Inoki and Baba together made Hansen. Baba jobbed to Brody in one of their first tags, if not the first one. Suspect there are a hundred examples people could come up without thinking too hard on it. I mean... Jumbo-Tenryu and Jumbo-Misawa and Choshu-Hash... Liger was the ace of his division and *alone* probably made 10 different wrestlers. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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