NintendoLogic Posted May 15, 2012 Report Share Posted May 15, 2012 Don't be so quick to judge. Raw really was historically shitty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted May 15, 2012 Report Share Posted May 15, 2012 OK, so the show reads pretty bad, but Martin is just batshit crazy at some points during the review, including this gem of a quote about the closing segment : He [Cena] was just unspeakably irritating here and the live crowd seemed to actually be with him, which was such an indictment of them.So he basically implies tonights crowd were a bunch of idiots for daring to like something he hated. Yeesh. The end bit with him comparing Vince to Al Davis did make me chuckle though. Did they really cut Show's balls off as bad as Martin made it seem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted May 15, 2012 Report Share Posted May 15, 2012 They did, and Show was great in the segment. But they made him look like a pussy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dooley Posted May 15, 2012 Report Share Posted May 15, 2012 Heyman's promo sucked and was some pure Vince Russo bullshit. "You brought a fighter to an entertainment company." What the fuck does that even mean? You really don't know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted May 15, 2012 Report Share Posted May 15, 2012 I want to know what the fuck it means in the context of the fictional WWE wrestling show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted May 15, 2012 Report Share Posted May 15, 2012 Yeah, a lot of folks are going on about how good Show was as far as his acting went, and that's true. But it went too long and made Show look like a pussy, like Vic said. Granted, it'll all be erased when Show interferes at the PPV and helps Johnny win. And fuck a Todd Martin. I didn't much care for the Cena promo but the crowd loved it. To get all "well, the crowd is wrong" just might be the stupidest thing that self important choad has ever written. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dooley Posted May 15, 2012 Report Share Posted May 15, 2012 I want to know what the fuck it means in the context of the fictional WWE wrestling show. The fictional wrestling show that hammers you over the head that they're not actually a wrestling company but a multimedia conglomerate? Brock's a fighter, the other guys are entertainers. It's not difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted May 15, 2012 Report Share Posted May 15, 2012 I want to know what the fuck it means in the context of the fictional WWE wrestling show. The fictional wrestling show that hammers you over the head that they're not actually a wrestling company but a multimedia conglomerate? Brock's a fighter, the other guys are entertainers. It's not difficult. How are they "entertaining"? What is their fictional show about? Especially after HHH put over that they themselves are fighting and that Cena kicked Brock's ass. It was a shitty promo and a guy like Heyman should know better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted May 15, 2012 Report Share Posted May 15, 2012 Because Vince has been calling his business Sports Entertainment since the mid 80s at least, so Paul's line was meant to ask "Why did you bring a shoot fighter into your worked business and get mad when he hurts people presumably for real in said worked business" but of course he can't use that direct verbiage. I was at Raw and I can confirm a few things: 1. Not only does no one give a shit about Tensai, he got a noticeable "aww, not this guy" reaction when he came out for a Superstars match. 2. The crowd was doing the YES chant before the show even started, and it wasn't just pockets of smart fans, but the whole building. 3. The Johnny/Show segment did make Show look like a pussy but it got crazy heel heat for Ace. 4. This was the most obnoxious Cena promo I can recall him doing, but it got over huge with the crowd because Johnny made them so mad in the Big Show segment they were super into anyone punking him out. When Johnny made his comment about the Penguins being losers, my friend mentioned that considering they've checked out of the playoffs in the first round the last two years Johnny actually had a valid point with that one. Also Cena made sure to hit the biggest cheap pop line of all time in mentioning the Steelers since they're bigger than Jesus in this city (literally, churches are empty on Sundays if mass coincides with Steeler games). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm funk Posted May 15, 2012 Report Share Posted May 15, 2012 I thought HHH's promo was really bad, but I think most of his promos in the last year have been really bad, so that's par for the course at this point. It's obvious at this point that they intend to somewhat bury and discredit Brock, whether it's payback or "bluring the lines" with meta booking, but HHH just sucks at delivering that sort of promo. The crowd was sitting on their hands the entire time, and half-heartedly popping for his growwly bullet points. All that really got across was that WWE/HHH are good and Brock is bad, and there was nothing interesting about it. The audience and/or potential audience they're hoping to win over by having Brock around is going to laugh at that promo, and not in a "I want to see Brock kick his ass way". When he moved on to talking about how Brock quit UFC because he got into a tough fight I just groaned, because anyone who's paid attention knows he had two major health scares that lesser men wouldn't have come back from, plus HHH trying to talk like he's a real life tough guy is just laughable anyway. Between HHH burying Brock and Cena shaking off the match like it never happened, I can't defend the booking of Brock anymore. I didn't mind him losing and was willing to give it a chance after that, but yeah, they've dropped the ball. It's recoverable to a degree, but they're actively hurting Brock at this point. What I got from this is they want his character to be a bully who's tough and a badass, but will ultimately wilt when somebody stands up to him, and that's just not what they should be doing. This can be salvaged somewhat by having him destroy and "retire" HHH at SummerSlam, kick ass for the rest of the year, win the title, and go on to wrestle Rock or Taker. They haven't irrevocably done damage yet. But they haven't been doing themselves any favors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted May 15, 2012 Report Share Posted May 15, 2012 Because Vince has been calling his business Sports Entertainment since the mid 80s at least, so Paul's line was meant to ask "Why did you bring a shoot fighter into your worked business and get mad when he hurts people presumably for real in said worked business" but of course he can't use that direct verbiage.So basically Vince Russo bullshit that makes no sense in a fictional context. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted May 15, 2012 Report Share Posted May 15, 2012 Ok. I don't know how people can even sit through RAW. HHH did a great job totally burying Brock. Basically, Brock was a quiter the first time around, then Brock was a quiter in UFC, then Brock is a quiter in WWE again plus he got beat by John Cena already. I think it's truly a great destructive promo. The "burning dollars" pic by Alvarez doesn't seem that terrible now, don't you think ? Oh, and gotta love HHH calling his match with Taker "legitimate" when it was probably the most sitcomish match in WWE history. So, instead of having an ass-kicker murdering people, now we're talking about lawsuits. I agree the "fighter in an entertainment company" is a ridiculous line, but hey, that's Brock's gimmick. It's 2012 and people are still chanting "What ?" ? This is the most annoying thing ever and turns everything into a joke. The Big Show segment just went forever, and Show is officialy the biggest pussy in the history of our sport. That angle worked in 1996 with Randy Anderson, and even him didn't get to look like such a total bitch, depsite being a referee with cancer and bringing his kids with him. Yes, it got Laurinaitis great heel heat, but so what ? Laurinaitis sucks, it's unbearable to have a show basically built around him. And Cena. Oh, Cena... Can anyone still defend the finish at the last PPV at this point ? Cena is just fine. Brock is so dead already, and I don't think I'll be able to keep watching RAW (in FF mind you) because I basically don't care at all anymore. Didn't take long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted May 15, 2012 Report Share Posted May 15, 2012 Oh, and gotta love HHH calling his match with Taker "legitimate" when it was probably the most sitcomish match in WWE history. He should have said it was completely fake and they are privileged to have a UFC champion in thieir presence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted May 15, 2012 Report Share Posted May 15, 2012 Todd: http://www.f4wonline.com/more/more-top-sto...-by-todd-martin It’s amazing Vince McMahon is so ashamed of wrestling, when wrestling can be an excellent form of entertainment and whatever it is he’s producing these days is about the lowest form of entertainment imaginable. McMahon is at this point to WWE what Al Davis was to the Raiders at the end: a complete embarrassment to his once proud legacy. There are enough talented people throughout this company that there needs to be an acknowledgement that leadership change at the top is desperately needed. Okay... I enjoy the Al Davis riff as much as the next guy, but I'd like to see him specifically include Steph and Trip in that "at the top" comment. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artDDP Posted May 16, 2012 Report Share Posted May 16, 2012 What I don't understand is how Triple H is considered the heir apparent to the WWE throne yet he is such a mark for the 80s-style NWA product, a product which was very much not sports-entertainment. He doesn't seem like the kind of guy who hammers home the "it's entertainment, stupid" company ideology. Also, I'm tired of everyone calling it "this business" within the context of their storylines. I get that they aren't supposed to treat it with any legitimacy but my involvement is almost completely muted when it starts coming off like an episode of Smash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyonthewall2983 Posted May 16, 2012 Report Share Posted May 16, 2012 What I don't understand is how Triple H is considered the heir apparent to the WWE throne yet he is such a mark for the 80s-style NWA product, a product which was very much not sports-entertainment. He doesn't seem like the kind of guy who hammers home the "it's entertainment, stupid" company ideology. I get that, too. It makes me hopeful if/when he has reigns on the creative direction, they scale back some of the sillier elements of today's product. And provided he knows to get out of the way and let someone else be The Game, but that's a pipe dream of epic proportions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm funk Posted May 16, 2012 Report Share Posted May 16, 2012 When I see HHH cut promos like the one he cut on Lesnar on RAW I lose all faith in him and his supposed understanding of "good" wrestling Deep down he's just a mark for himself. He thinks he's the modern Ric Flair? Ric Flair put in that position would have got Brock over more and by doing so got himself over more in the process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted May 16, 2012 Report Share Posted May 16, 2012 What I don't understand is how Triple H is considered the heir apparent to the WWE throne yet he is such a mark for the 80s-style NWA product, a product which was very much not sports-entertainment. He doesn't seem like the kind of guy who hammers home the "it's entertainment, stupid" company ideology. Trip is a guy whose entire career has been in the "entertainment" era. He isn't a mark for 80s stuff as much as he's a mark for what's got him over through the years. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted May 16, 2012 Report Share Posted May 16, 2012 Maybe he's like Lyndon Johnson and is biding his time and making all the compromises he needs to to get into position to implement his agenda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted May 17, 2012 Report Share Posted May 17, 2012 Other than Trip saying he's a fan of 80s NWA, what's the evidence that Trip has built up his own storylines over the past decade (which he has always had creative control over) in an 80s NWA Fashion? I'm guessing corpse-banging was a homage to Flair, Garvin and Precious? John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted May 17, 2012 Report Share Posted May 17, 2012 Other than Trip saying he's a fan of 80s NWA, what's the evidence that Trip has built up his own storylines over the past decade (which he has always had creative control over) in an 80s NWA Fashion? I'm guessing corpse-banging was a homage to Flair, Garvin and Precious? John I've always thought that the HHH liking the NWA stuff is a work, because as you said, his stuff doesn't really resemble it all that much. I do think though that he and Shawn saw their feud as the modern day Flair/Steamboat, based on them aping sequences from their matches and making them look sloppy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted May 17, 2012 Report Share Posted May 17, 2012 Well, there was the homage to Harley Race's bounty on Ric Flair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted May 17, 2012 Report Share Posted May 17, 2012 And the homage to Race's mustache/sideburns combo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted May 17, 2012 Report Share Posted May 17, 2012 And the homage to Race's mustache/sideburns combo. I thought that was more a Lemmy homage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paul Kersey Posted May 17, 2012 Report Share Posted May 17, 2012 Maybe he's like Lyndon Johnson and is biding his time and making all the compromises he needs to to get into position to implement his agenda. A+ post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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