Brock is back

[Strummer]

yeah according to PWI Brock already may be on his way out. The angle tonight could have been done to write him off the show:

 

 

Following the Extreme Rules PPV on Sunday, there was a huge backstage blow-up involving Brock Lesnar.

According to several sources, Lesnar lost it on a number of WWE officials and began ripping apart a dressing room, upset over the John Cena promo that closed the PPV.

 

The original plan was for Cena, despite winning, to be so beaten that he was carried out of the building, leaving an opening for Lesnar to brag that while he had lost the battle on a fluke, he had won the war.

 

When Cena decided to address the audience, Lesnar perceived it as Cena double crossing him and lost in on WWE officials. It's not yet known how they calmed him down, but tonight's angle with HHH was planned in advance as a way to remove Lesnar from TV.

 

Sources within the company have indicated that Lesnar's current deal only requires him to work two dates minimum.

PWI is usually dead on so I'm inclined to believe this.

[Strummer]

oh man we might be into another Mike Johnson v Meltzer war

[sek69]

Having him beat up and storyline injure HHH would seem to be the opposite thing you'd do if you were writing someone off TV. Even if you were going to use it as an excuse to fire him in storyline, leaving the HHH character with no outlet for revenge other than beating up Johnny for putting him in the position to get hurt seems weird.

[Big Rob]

What's good about them?

Two guys both claim to be the best in the World, and this obviously leads to an issue between the two. How, in theory, is that a bad idea?

 

C'mon, they're not even the two best guys in their company. Look at how simple and effective Brock vs. Cena was. You don't need a huge amount of motivation in wrestling because the conflict is already inherent. Just cut some promos and do a wrestling angle. Punk can't act and Jericho can't cut serious promos. They'd have to be great promos to make this sort of bad writing work, but they're not.

 

One of them had the WWE Championship. Obviously, we know that it wasn't positioned as the main match , but you really can't fault the theory behind "two guys say they're the best, one has the top belt, they want to fight each other". That's pretty solid as far as "wrestling angles" go. Was it executed perfectly, of course not, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with that idea.

[NintendoLogic]

oh man we might be into another Mike Johnson v Meltzer war

Here's what Dave says:

 

Part of this is a Pillman work on the boys. Notice I said part of it.

Outstanding.

[ohtani's jacket]

When has Jericho ever cut a good serious promo? I don't think he's capable of it with his delivery.

He had several during his feud with the Rock back in 01/02.

 

Punk may have mastered the various facial expressions you're supposed to make in WWE, but I think it's a far cry to claim he can act.

Well, we are grading on the sliding scale of how well wrestlers can act. But I thought Punk has always been decent enough for his spot. Once again, I think it comes down to this material simply being a bad idea to write into a wrestling feud in the first place. "You are haunted by the personal demons of your immediate family!" isn't something that translates well in a storytelling medium which mostly involves one dude punching another dude.

 

Definitely agree that it's not something that translates well to wrestling.

[ohtani's jacket]

What's good about them?

Two guys both claim to be the best in the World, and this obviously leads to an issue between the two. How, in theory, is that a bad idea?

 

C'mon, they're not even the two best guys in their company. Look at how simple and effective Brock vs. Cena was. You don't need a huge amount of motivation in wrestling because the conflict is already inherent. Just cut some promos and do a wrestling angle. Punk can't act and Jericho can't cut serious promos. They'd have to be great promos to make this sort of bad writing work, but they're not.

 

One of them had the WWE Championship. Obviously, we know that it wasn't positioned as the main match , but you really can't fault the theory behind "two guys say they're the best, one has the top belt, they want to fight each other". That's pretty solid as far as "wrestling angles" go. Was it executed perfectly, of course not, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with that idea.

 

That is a ROH level angle. Since when were ROH level angles good?

[Marty]

Jake vs Lawler was embarrasing on every level. Terrible matches, bad promos, Lawler being a dick pouring actual alchohol into Jake's throat. Just bad stuff coming from guys who should do much better.

Did that actually happen, or was that another Jake-told story we should put into question?

[El-P]

 

The original plan was for Cena, despite winning, to be so beaten that he was carried out of the building, leaving an opening for Lesnar to brag that while he had lost the battle on a fluke, he had won the war.

No shit.

 

If it's a "Pillman work", even part of it, then I was right to bring on Russo after all (sadly). The infamous Bookerman promo was Russo's big inspiration for shooty shooty stuff and swerving people. I didn't like the pseudo shooty aspect of Cena's promo yesterday, but it's getting worse.

I sure hope Lesnar doesn't get written off. If that's a case, I think we can agree all of this is a complete debacle and deserves to get into "Worst booking decisions ever" thread. I'm even more baffled today.

[kjh]

It's all a big work. I can see WWE "double crossing" Lesnar to get him genuinely mad, so that the stories of him "quitting" spread faster, while Lesnar milks it for all it's worth to try and land more concessions from WWE management. But I find it hard to believe that Brock walks out on the company before collecting every last cent of his fat contract. There aren't any other options out there to make such easy money.

[El-P]

Ok. if it's "all a big work", I'm asking the question : what is the point ? Working the Internet ? Working the hardcore fans ? Working the dirt sheets ? Seriously, we're still there in 2012 ?

[kjh]

With the explosion of social media in recent years it was always going to rear its ugly head again, worse than ever. Also the Punk worked shoot angle worked to a degree and when something works once they always repeat the same idea over and over again to try to recreate that magic moment.

[El-P]

With the explosion of social media in recent years it was always going to rear its ugly head again, worse than ever.

It's sad. On one hand they are trying to present themselves as pure entertainment, on the other hand they are crossing the lines old carnies wouldn't cross because it didn't make sense and never worked in the end.

 

Also the Punk worked shoot angle worked to a degree and when something works once they always repeat the same idea over and over again to try to recreate that magic moment.

Yes, it worked as to create interest for a week or two, then they were incapable of booking the angle of which they planted the seeds for. Seems like we're getting the same thing here. It's sad. Brock coming back and the match with Cena is the closest thing to me being somewhat excited about watching some WWE again. But the booking just makes me want to bash my computer if I'm thinking about it.

[anarchistxx]

Looks like HHH will be beating Brock too at some point after what happened last night, whether it's at Wrestlemania or sooner. It'll be almost hilarious (and just like Vince) if the only reason they have brought Lesnar back is to job him out to all of their top guys as revenge for him walking out on them and becoming credible elsewhere,

[Coffey]

Watching RAW last night & when Triple H starts talking about Brock not getting a private jet & shit anymore, it looks like Brock is about to tear up.

[Dylan Waco]

HHH is always an angle/freshness killer. As soon as he came out a feeling of dread swept over me. The actual attack was pretty cool and well done, but there is nothing good that can come of HHH being involved on any level.

 

Having said that, this is the problem with signing a huge monster heel of Brock's ilk when you've only got a couple of babyfaces that are even arguably on the level where you would want to consider watching Brock work them in a program

[El-P]

Gotta love the line "People wants you, they want to see you face CM Punk, Randy Orton and... John Cena so you try to erase your defeat. But instead, they get you against, THE GAME.".

Ok, that's not what he said, but I fear a Brock vs HHH match at Summerslam now instead of a cool match.

Yes, I agree the babyface front is very slim, and really, the big dream match for Mania next year is Brock vs Rock. I'd love to see Brock vs CM Punk in the meantime.

[Coffey]

Maybe I am too naive and pessimistic. I am obviously overly-critical, stubborn & thick-headed. That being said, at this point, I think Brock is damaged goods and I would rather have Batista come back. I would rather see C.M. Punk Vs. Batista than anything that they can do now with Brock Lesnar. I sure as fuck don't want to see Triple H Vs. Brock Lesnar.

[anarchistxx]

If they really do have him for a year, a good way to keep him fresh and at least somewhat interesting is to have him work with a different guy every month. They have fresh matches with Punk, Orton, Bryan, Sheamus, Henry, Rey, Jericho, HHH and rematches with Undertaker and Rock. The win last night pretty much killed Lesnar's unstoppable monster aura, not just the win but the fact Cena was left standing and triumphant at the end of the event. The only way to keep him compelling is to throw fresh matches at him quickly and at each PPV.

[Ricky Jackson]

There will never be a time when long-term WWE booking will satisfy hardcore followers like us. Never. We expect too much from Vince and co. We expect them to deliver filet mignon when they're in the business of selling cheeseburgers to the masses, and always have been and always will be. Lord knows I've bitched about the booking for years. Right now I try and look at things positively (I'm just so tired of being cynical), and when I look back at what WWE was producing around 2009-2010, I think overall things are much better. Remember week after week of celebrity guest hosts? Remember Bret Hart "wrestling" after his return? Remember HHH and Orton fighting in a house or Nexus fizzling out? Things are better now, and have been since the Rock's return last year. Punk and Bryan are major players, and guys like HHH, Orton and Vince have been deemphasized. Sheamus has become a great performer. There have been countless memorable/great matches and PPV's in the last year alone. Hell, even El-P's interested again! It's not perfect, but it's much better than the dreck they served up 2-3 years ago IMO.

 

I may look back at this post in a few months and laugh, but right now I'm still riding the buzz of Extreme Rules and feeling good about WWE.

[Bob Morris]

I'm not expecting WWE to hit a home run every single time they have an opportunity to pull off a good angle and see it through well to the end, but I would hope we'd get the equivalent of singles and doubles that bring in runs.

 

I agree there is a problem with those who see some big moment that generates a buzz, then think that "this time it will be different" while forgetting that WWE Creative just doesn't know how to follow up on anything that generates a buzz.

 

But, hey, as wrestling "smarts," we've done this all the time when it comes to getting worked up over some moment that turns our heads. There have been those that yielded some good stuff over a longer period (Scott Hall's first Nitro appearance and Austin stunning Vince for the first time) and stuff that didn't really go anywhere (the Pillman "bookerman" remark will always top that list -- and be honest, folks, that "bookerman" bit didn't really lead to anything meaningful), but it just seems, whether we admit it or not, we get suckered in by whatever happens to be generating an initial buzz.

[Matt D]

If they were really writing Brock out with this, legit, they would never, ever, ever do it by having him hurt HHH like that. That's not how WWE would write Brock out.

 

They'd have him attack Hunter, and get pedigreed for his trouble. If there was even a tiny chance that he wasn't going to be back, HHH wouldn't have put himself in that vulnerable position last night. Why are we even spending so much time talking about this?

[FLIK]

Lance Storm on Brock

 

http://www.stormwrestling.com/043012.html

 

this commentary was to show that most of the people bitching that WWE killed Brock Lesnar by having John Cena beat him at the Extreme Rules PPV last night are narrow minded. Upon posting that I of course was inundated with people saying how they agree with me completely that they thought beating Brock Lesnar made total sense and was absolutely the right move.

 

These two extreme views (pun intended) are really what inspired this commentary. I've been in the wrestling business for more than 20 years now and if there is one thing I've learned is that there are almost no absolutes. Almost no decision is absolutely 100% clear cut and even bad decisions are almost never uncorrectable

Now let's look at some of the up sides to beating Brock at Extreme Rules. Brock Lesnar is a guy that does not love pro wrestling and in his last run in WWE he beat almost every big Star in the company and then quit. While he did do a job on the way out the program he was in on his way out was with Bill Goldberg who unfortunately was also leaving the company. So Brock essentially beat the entire WWE roster and the only guy who managed to beat him wasn't sticking around either. That has to be at least a small concern when moving forward with Lesnar now. Is it safe to book him undefeated for a long stretch? In a perfect word yes, because it will mean more when he eventually loses, but Pro-Wrestling is seldom if ever a perfect world. I've even heard arguments that he should go undefeated all the way to WrestleMania for the ultimate show down with either Rock or Undertaker. While again that sounds great on paper there are two concerns. 1: Will he make it to WrestleMania without, getting hurt, becoming ill again, or quitting? And 2: Do you want him beating your entire roster for a year to eventually get beat by a guy who much like at Mania XX with Goldberg, isn't sticking around after that match?

[kjh]

Lance forgets Brock losing to Eddy Guerrero a month before he left in 2004 I see...

[Coffey]

the people bitching that WWE killed Brock Lesnar by having John Cena beat him at the Extreme Rules PPV last night are narrow minded

I'm curious if he wrote this before RAW or after RAW. Because if he wrote this after RAW, then I'll never listen to anything he ever says again. He also tried to play the "he lost his first fight in UFC too!" card which just makes him look like a damn fool.