Hulk Hogan's best matches

[ohtani's jacket]

Just because Hogan was more over than just about every halfway decent babyface in the history of the business doesn't mean that he did something extra special.

How do you figure?

What did Hogan do that was anything you wouldn't expect from a professional wrestling match? Hogan personifies doing the basics. You can't honestly say that his schtick was extraordinarily better than any other babyface. Hogan was over regardless of his matches. They were a formality, some of which were more entertaining than others. Do you really think that the way Hogan sells and all his mannerisms are better than anybody else? Or the reason he got heat for that matter? He was effective if effective means carrying out a match, but why praise him for doing simple stuff well? All you're doing is setting the bar ridiculously low for Hogan. The first time I ever saw Hogan was in 1988 when he returned after some kind of absence post Wrestlemania IV. Prior to that, Dibiase, Andre, Bobby and Savage had been cutting promos in the early stage of the build-up to the SummerSlam main event. So, the first time I saw him the music hit, he came out from behind the curtain, the crowd went nuts, etc. Hogan was a sensation and for much of the 80s it was like a locomotive. There was nothing innately special about Hogan making an entrance other than he was extremely over and that was contagious. Hogan obviously had qualities that made him popular, but did he really do anything that set him apart? I can't think of anything.

 

The answer is Hogan did not need them. It was a bonus.

Well, there was the entrance and the pose down afterwards, but there needed to be something in the middle and sure as hell wasn't going to be reliant on Hogan as a worker. I can understand people liking Hogan for whatever reason, but do you really get excited when Hogan executes an atomic drop or something like that? It's just basic pantomime.

[Johnny Sorrow]

Well, there was the entrance and the pose down afterwards, but there needed to be something in the middle and sure as hell wasn't going to be reliant on Hogan as a worker. I can understand people liking Hogan for whatever reason, but do you really get excited when Hogan executes an atomic drop or something like that? It's just basic pantomime.

 

 

"How can you be so obtuse?"

[Yo-Yo's Roomie]

I find myself enjoying Hogan more and more as the years go on. I wouldn't want to watch his matches all the time, and if he was currently in his prime and all over Raw and Smackdown, I have no doubt that I would hate him. But going back and watching his matches when the occassion presents itself (like when I did my big rewatch of all the Wrestlemania/Summerslam shows, or more recently, watching the NJ set), I found myself digging Hogan more often than not.

 

To answer the question, I like the Inoki match from the NJ set, and I'm a big fan of the Slaughter match from Mania 7, featuring the best Hulk-Up ever.

[khawk20]

I like the third MSG Flair match.

 

Third match???

[Matt D]

Ok, I'm trying to figure out what I meant.

 

As best as I can remember this, we definitely have 4 Hogan vs Flair matches, the Dayton handheld, the San Fran handheld, the first MSG match, and the second MSG match. I want to say that we have another handheld in January or Feb somewhere (maybe non-title if in Feb), after they'd gone around the horn once or twice but before the tag matches with Piper.

 

It was longer and had way more Flair offense but a definitive Hogan victory. i remember liking it way more than the others.

 

But I can't put the pieces together right now.

 

EDIT: Looking at results, I don't see Hogan pinning Flair at all one-on-one. So I must just be thinking of the SECOND MSG match, which felt like a third one to me because of the handhelds I saw before hand. It was the third or fourth time I saw the match (as the first two were very similar). He pinned Flair in the tag matches with Roddy and Taker, so that must be what I'm getting THAT visual confused with. Sorry.

 

I do wish we had this from a Superstars taping though:

WWF @ Amarillo, TX - Civic Center - January 28, 1992

WWF Superstars taping:

Hulk Hogan & Randy Savage defeated Jake Roberts & the Berzerker (sub. for the Undertaker)

 

I bet that was really cool if it went more than 5 minutes. Nord is probably my favorite single WWF guy to watch in 92.

[BBscout]

Ok, I'm trying to figure out what I meant.

 

As best as I can remember this, we definitely have 4 Hogan vs Flair matches, the Dayton handheld, the San Fran handheld, the first MSG match, and the second MSG match. I want to say that we have another handheld in January or Feb somewhere (maybe non-title if in Feb), after they'd gone around the horn once or twice but before the tag matches with Piper.

 

It was longer and had way more Flair offense but a definitive Hogan victory. i remember liking it way more than the others.

 

But I can't put the pieces together right now.

 

EDIT: Looking at results, I don't see Hogan pinning Flair at all one-on-one. So I must just be thinking of the SECOND MSG match, which felt like a third one to me because of the handhelds I saw before hand. It was the third or fourth time I saw the match (as the first two were very similar). He pinned Flair in the tag matches with Roddy and Taker, so that must be what I'm getting THAT visual confused with. Sorry.

 

I do wish we had this from a Superstars taping though:

WWF @ Amarillo, TX - Civic Center - January 28, 1992

WWF Superstars taping:

Hulk Hogan & Randy Savage defeated Jake Roberts & the Berzerker (sub. for the Undertaker)

 

I bet that was really cool if it went more than 5 minutes. Nord is probably my favorite single WWF guy to watch in 92.

There's five out there. Dayton was their 1st match at a 10-23-91 Challenge taping but isn't out there.

 

Oakland 10-25-91, San Francisco 11-15-91, Philly 11-30-91, MSG 11-30-91 and MSG 12-29-91.

 

Both the MSGs were awesome. Great pace.

[Matt D]

Yeah, it's 12-29 that I really like. In my HEAD it was just the third match in the series.

 

The first time around was end of October, then End of November, then end of December.

[Loss]

What OJ is arguing makes sense, which is that Hogan's popularity didn't have much to do with his talent.

[Dylan Waco]

What did it have to do with then? The degree of his push? That's hard to fully accept, particularly watching the AWA footage where he was pushed very hard, but not in the Vince like fashion that would come - but was still getting the exact same (if not crazier) reactions.

 

If someone wants to say that innate charisma isn't really a talent okay I guess but Hogan's mocking/taunting of opponents and the way he feeds and plays off the crowd has been some of the most entertaining stuff to watch on the babyface end from the AWA footage.

[Matt D]

There's a certain timing to it all too, to know when to make the comeback, to know how much to give and when, to know what the fans want and exactly what to give them, to know how long to sit in a hold, etc. To READ a crowd. Now, I guess the argument is that Hogan was so over that he could have spent 30 seconds less or 30 seconds more in a hold and it wouldn't have mattered.

[El-P]

Now, I guess the argument is that Hogan was so over that he could have spent 30 seconds less or 30 seconds more in a hold and it wouldn't have mattered.

This.

At some point, I'm willing to give Hogan all the credit he deserves, and he's been given plenty in the last 5 or 6 years, but one as to also accept the fact that WWF marketing machine + intangible IT made Hogan what he became. Not his great talent. He had more IT than anyone else before and after him (until The Rock came on scene). When you're over to that degree, the quality of the match doesn't matter at all.

[Dylan Waco]

Now, I guess the argument is that Hogan was so over that he could have spent 30 seconds less or 30 seconds more in a hold and it wouldn't have mattered.

This.

At some point, I'm willing to give Hogan all the credit he deserves, and he's been given plenty in the last 5 or 6 years, but one as to also accept the fact that WWF marketing machine + intangible IT made Hogan what he became. Not his great talent. He had more IT than anyone else before and after him (until The Rock came on scene). When you're over to that degree, the quality of the match doesn't matter at all.

 

Hogan had "IT" before the WWF marketing machine had him. His reactions in the AWA were just as insane.

[Negro Suave]

If you take OJ's arguments in a vacuum they are quite correct. But to put into context it becomes a bit flimsier. If you take Hogan's body of work and compare it to what people are doing now and how wrestling has progresssed you begin to wonder what the big deal is. It is the same as any other entertainer or any other athelete really.

 

We have yet to and may never again see another wrestler with the star caliber of Hogan. Old white guys with money know who Hogan is which is why he STILL gets jobs and more money.

 

It's why Sylvester Stallone Arnold S and every other action star can be easily called some of thegreatest movie stars of all time but no where near the greatest actors of all time. What they do is forumlaic and objectively kind of stupid but it will always get eaten up because it is what is.

[El-P]

Hogan had "IT" before the WWF marketing machine had him. His reactions in the AWA were just as insane.

That's why the + is there. He had the supreme IT anyway. Like I previously said, he was also crazy over in New Japan too. Then came the WWF marketing machine, which propelled him even higher in term of global overness.

[Loss]

What did it have to do with then? The degree of his push?

I think Hogan's charisma and look are what got him over. OJ makes the point to a higher extreme than I would. I don't mind Hogan quite as much.

 

But to answer your question, LOOK. Being a tall blond guy with big muscles in the middle of a national fitness craze, plus his part in Rocky III. His charisma put him over the top, but those things were all hugely important.

[Coffey]

Plus his promo ability, his pushing of the prayers (which definitely played a part) and being a superhero. He was a role model, in a sense. He was on the cover of Sports Illustrated. He was on Johnny Carson! Johnny Carson alone is so monumentally big of a thing that it's mind-blowing to me.

 

I think, if I am being completely honest, and this is not necessarily how I feel, but in professional wrestling in the United States, ever more so back during the 80's compared to today, the actual bell-to-bell match is what mattered the least. At least in WWF. It was about the storyline and the show. Then it was about who won and if they cheated or not. Hogan would have something bad happen to him, like a fireball to the face, or an Earthquake squash on Brother Love's show, or Zeus blocking the cage door. Then he would get put out of action. Then he would come back and win in the end. It was basic but it worked and that is one big thing that is lacking today.

 

Sometimes it feels like the fans that most heavily scrutinize wrestlers the most are the ones that understand the business the least. It doesn't matter if André Vs. Hogan is going to be a shit fest of a match. People want to see if André can be beaten. People want to see if The Hulkster can body slam this monster. Those 93,000 people didn't buy tickets because they wanted to see work rate.

[Frankensteiner]

What did it have to do with then? The degree of his push?

I think Hogan's charisma and look are what got him over. OJ makes the point to a higher extreme than I would. I don't mind Hogan quite as much.

 

But to answer your question, LOOK. Being a tall blond guy with big muscles in the middle of a national fitness craze, plus his part in Rocky III. His charisma put him over the top, but those things were all hugely important.

 

I pretty much agree with this. If we're going to go along with the idea of Hogan having great talent because of how over he was, you pretty much have to contort yourself into the same argument for Konnan in Mexico. I don't think anyone wants to take it that far.

[JerryvonKramer]

I know I'm biased but I like his singles matches with DiBiase (not the 1979 one)

 

The one from the Philly Spectrum, March 1988 isn't very good but the one from Houston, TX, October 9th 1987 is pretty good. DiBiase says "I need no introduction to you people, you know who I am" which is a nice nod to his MidSouth days. This was representative of a pile of DiBiase/ Hogan matches in 87 where DiBiase got count out wins around the horn.

 

There's another one a few days later, also from Housten where Hogan gets the pin (think this was on one of the old Hogan VHS tapes). These are both decent matches.

 

Even better is the one from September 10th, Boston 1988.

 

And the SNME match from 1989 just prior to Survivor Series is also pretty good.

 

None of these are "classics" as such, but they do demonstrate Hogan selling for a technically sound heel opponent and allowing him to retain his heat.

[Dylan Waco]

Ha. The 79 MSG match is probably my favorite Hogan v. Dibiase match!

[JerryvonKramer]

I didn't mean to say it's a bad match, I was just trying to make a point of saying "not that one", because I assume everyone knows about it.

 

Incidentally, the matches from Houston in 1987 feature the worst commentary of all time. There is a woman on them and pre-Brother Love Bruce Pritchard. Have never forgotten how bad they were. Make Mooney look like Gordon Solie.

 

EDIT: With a bit of googling I've found out they were Pete Doherty, Mike Mcguirk (the woman) and Bruce Pritchard. Doherty was the generic heel, not Pritchard.

[Victator]

I think my number five Hogan match is vs Lanny Poffo on SNME. A great performance from Hulk, because it all came down to him knowing exactly how much offense to give a guy like Poffo. Who was so low on the card, it was a tricky thing to pull off.

 

Also the promo

 

"Genius I'm going to ask you the question that Einstein, Shakespeare and Socrates could never answer. WHATS CHA GONNA DO WHEN HULKAMANIA RUNS WILD ON YOU!!!"

[Jingus]

Aside from the Flair and Vader matches, does anything else from WCW come to mind? Someone mentioned vs Piper at Starrcade 96, but it's nowhere near as fun or energetic as their matches from eleven years previous. Nothing else really pops out at me. There's the occasional "better than it should've been" like the Goldberg title change or the Kidman feud, but am I blanking on anything really great?

[jdw]

Where he jobbed the title to Lex was enjoyable at the time, but I wonder if it was just for the finish and the pop.

 

John

[Jingus]

Yeah, that probably goes in the same category with the Goldberg and Piper matches. (And hey, what is the weird deal where Hogan often seems to work harder and have a better match if he's booked to lose?) I'm trying to pick out what the best match he ever had with Sting was, but that's mostly a pick between a wide variety of disappointments. Shit, I could see an argument that the TNA Hogan/Sting match was in some ways better than any of their WCW encounters.

[Loss]

The night after Halloween Havoc '97, he had a really good match with DDP.