BillThompson Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 On 12/4/2014 at 4:40 AM, fakeplastictrees said: On 12/3/2014 at 10:05 PM, BillThompson said: He never booked anywhere for real, but listening to Kevin Kelly and his ideas I think it's clear he would have been the worst booker ever, as even in his fantasy dream booking he manages to find ways to inevitably leave all kinds of money on the table. Examples? First one that comes to mind is his fire Batista idea. Guy was a jerk backstage and said something Kelly didn't like so Kelly equated that to meaning Batista had no talent and was worthless to the business. Lots of money being left on the table right there. He also said the same thing about Shamrock, and there were many others but they aren't springing to mind right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 On 12/4/2014 at 3:36 PM, BillThompson said: On 12/4/2014 at 4:40 AM, fakeplastictrees said: On 12/3/2014 at 10:05 PM, BillThompson said: He never booked anywhere for real, but listening to Kevin Kelly and his ideas I think it's clear he would have been the worst booker ever, as even in his fantasy dream booking he manages to find ways to inevitably leave all kinds of money on the table. Examples? First one that comes to mind is his fire Batista idea. Guy was a jerk backstage and said something Kelly didn't like so Kelly equated that to meaning Batista had no talent and was worthless to the business. Lots of money being left on the table right there. He also said the same thing about Shamrock, and there were many others but they aren't springing to mind right now. Man... they really screwed up Shamrock. Imagine a scenario where Bret taps out to Shamrock for the title. No screwjob and they set up the unstoppable MMA Shamrock dropping the title to Austin at Mania. Maybe Michaels doesn't have a casket match at Rumble that destroys his back, etc... EDIT: I forgot Tyson was the referee. Holy Shit!!!! Mike Tyson (former boxing champion) referees Former MMA champion and current WWF Champion Ken Shamrock vs the toughest man in wrestling, Steve Austin. Money! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 On 12/4/2014 at 12:49 PM, JerryvonKramer said: If anyone dares suggest Vince for this thread, I will personally come to your house and chew out your liver. Vince has good and bad like anyone else, but when he's on his game, he's a great booker. I can't see anyone suggesting him here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayfabe1984 Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 On 12/4/2014 at 3:39 AM, Johnny Sorrow said: Herd wasn't the booker, though. He was Executive Vice President. True, but didn't he come up with such luminaries as the Ding Dongs? Also, he set the direction for WCW to be cartoony in the early 90s (see 1991 as a good example). Not saying that the wrestling was bad, just saying that it was his idea for all of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 On 12/4/2014 at 4:16 PM, Grimmas said: Man... they really screwed up Shamrock. Imagine a scenario where Bret taps out to Shamrock for the title. No screwjob and they set up the unstoppable MMA Shamrock dropping the title to Austin at Mania. Maybe Michaels doesn't have a casket match at Rumble that destroys his back, etc... EDIT: I forgot Tyson was the referee. Holy Shit!!!! Mike Tyson (former boxing champion) referees Former MMA champion and current WWF Champion Ken Shamrock vs the toughest man in wrestling, Steve Austin. Money! This smacks of revisionist history. MMA didn't mean nearly as much 15 years ago as it does now. Boxing, while on the decline, was still a way bigger deal back then. Whatever charisma and mic skills Shamrock had never really translated to the WWE environment. The thought that he ever would've been a bigger deal than Michaels in that match is just flat out absurd, and that's even if you think HBK was wildly overrated like some people here do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted December 4, 2014 Report Share Posted December 4, 2014 On 12/4/2014 at 10:14 PM, C.S. said: On 12/4/2014 at 4:16 PM, Grimmas said: Man... they really screwed up Shamrock. Imagine a scenario where Bret taps out to Shamrock for the title. No screwjob and they set up the unstoppable MMA Shamrock dropping the title to Austin at Mania. Maybe Michaels doesn't have a casket match at Rumble that destroys his back, etc... EDIT: I forgot Tyson was the referee. Holy Shit!!!! Mike Tyson (former boxing champion) referees Former MMA champion and current WWF Champion Ken Shamrock vs the toughest man in wrestling, Steve Austin. Money! This smacks of revisionist history. MMA didn't mean nearly as much 15 years ago as it does now. Boxing, while on the decline, was still a way bigger deal back then. Whatever charisma and mic skills Shamrock had never really translated to the WWE environment. The thought that he ever would've been a bigger deal than Michaels in that match is just flat out absurd, and that's even if you think HBK was wildly overrated like some people here do. Shamrock was pretty freaking over. That died when he lost to Michaels in a shitty match. MMA had buzz and was huge a few years prior. Tyson had a appeal, look what he did to that main event. Sure, HBK was the bigger star, but if Shamrock made Bret tap for the title and then destroyed everyone up till WM and faced Austin with Tyson as a referee, it would had been a HUGE deal. Drawing Power for WM14 1) Tyson 2) Austin ...... 3) Michaels Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted December 5, 2014 Report Share Posted December 5, 2014 On 12/4/2014 at 8:10 PM, kayfabe1984 said: On 12/4/2014 at 3:39 AM, Johnny Sorrow said: Herd wasn't the booker, though. He was Executive Vice President. True, but didn't he come up with such luminaries as the Ding Dongs? Also, he set the direction for WCW to be cartoony in the early 90s (see 1991 as a good example). Not saying that the wrestling was bad, just saying that it was his idea for all of that. Yeah but that's not the booker. That's the boss coming up with characters and input. At the time they had a booking committee . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 Antonio Inoki is probably worth considering given the mess his interference made of New Japan in the mid 00's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaymeFuture Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Great thread. Out of interest, is there a Meltzer-provided consensus on when exactly Nash took over as booker? Always sense a conflict in timeline with some saying it was pre-Starrcade 98, and others listing February 1999. And Russo runs away with this for me. His two WCW runs were abominable, and exposed just how minimal his role in any true success was in the WWF. I wonder how well Dusty does if judged similarly on the pros and cons of his runs overall, out of interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamthedoctor Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Vince Russo because of the shambles he did to WCW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted February 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 On 2/16/2015 at 1:43 PM, iamthedoctor said: Vince Russo because of the shambles he did to WCW. After three years, five pages and 83 replies, this is really great insight. The sort of contribution to the board we all value. Keep it up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chief Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 On 2/16/2015 at 2:55 PM, JerryvonKramer said: On 2/16/2015 at 1:43 PM, iamthedoctor said: Vince Russo because of the shambles he did to WCW. After three years, five pages and 83 replies, this is really great insight. The sort of contribution to the board we all value. Keep it up! What about when he done that bad storeyline and rooined the booking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 On 2/16/2015 at 1:43 PM, iamthedoctor said: Vince Russo because of the shambles he did to WCW. Great insight . The Earth is round too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheapshot Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 On 2/16/2015 at 1:43 PM, iamthedoctor said: Vince Russo because of the shambles he did to WCW. Those damn shambles. If he didn't do them I could still be watching WCW Worldwide from Disney/MGM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamthedoctor Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 On 2/16/2015 at 4:09 PM, cheapshot said: On 2/16/2015 at 1:43 PM, iamthedoctor said: Vince Russo because of the shambles he did to WCW. Those damn shambles. If he didn't do them I could still be watching WCW Worldwide from Disney/MGM. Which in its early days before Nitro was quite entertaining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheapshot Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Those Big Sky squashes were a hoot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 On 2/16/2015 at 7:33 PM, iamthedoctor said: On 2/16/2015 at 4:09 PM, cheapshot said: On 2/16/2015 at 1:43 PM, iamthedoctor said: Vince Russo because of the shambles he did to WCW. Those damn shambles. If he didn't do them I could still be watching WCW Worldwide from Disney/MGM. Which in its early days before Nitro was quite entertaining. What are you talking about? Those shows were awesome after Nitro debuted. Random luchadores and other guys. So much fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButchReedMark Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 On 2/16/2015 at 7:43 PM, cheapshot said: Those Big Sky squashes were a hoot. Yeah, you can never have enough Blackhearts matches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Not the worst by any means but I just wanted to throw Mutoh out there for his run with All Japan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 On 2/16/2015 at 4:04 PM, shoe said: On 2/16/2015 at 1:43 PM, iamthedoctor said: Vince Russo because of the shambles he did to WCW. Great insight . The Earth is round too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 On 2/17/2015 at 4:31 AM, Johnny Sorrow said: On 2/16/2015 at 4:04 PM, shoe said: On 2/16/2015 at 1:43 PM, iamthedoctor said: Vince Russo because of the shambles he did to WCW. Great insight . The Earth is round too. I want to break this off into it's own thread of witty things Johnny does, but I don't want to be accused of abusing my mod functions. Plus it's not that witty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted February 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 Plus, it would end up being a very short thread ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 Topically related, Russo's time in TNA shouldn't be overlooked when considering his body of work. One of the main reasons the company is looked at as the terminally running in place zombie it became is how he completely booked it into the ground when there was a time (a brief one, but still) where there could have been something there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 You could see the effects on TNA almost immediately. The product completely fell apart in a matter of weeks when he came back in 2006. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidebottom Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 On 2/16/2015 at 10:48 PM, Mad Dog said: Not the worst by any means but I just wanted to throw Mutoh out there for his run with All Japan. I always felt that if AJPW didn't have Muta around in the mid to late 2000's, the promotion would have been in far more of a dire position. I'd also credit him for helping bring Japanese wrestling up to the times more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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