Jerry Lawler in serious condition

[Mad Dog]

An angioplasty is only minimally invasive. If he'd had surgery it would have been a bypass.

Most surgeries are only minimally invasive. My wife's knee surgery were two small holes created by a laser. And like I said, I have to tell the ER people about my wisdom teeth because that's deemed to be a surgical procedure that was performed on me. The medical profession would consider this a surgical procedure even if it's less risky than a bypass would've been.

[cm funk]

I'm just listening to the late Monday/early Tuesday Observer Radio show now, and Dave made some interesting points regarding Lawler and his general health:

 

- Noted that he doesn't smoke, drink or do drugs, which we all knew

 

- Noted that he doesn't necessarily eat great, which we all pretty much knew or assumed

 

- Noted that he has a family history of heart problems, that his father died of a heart attack when Jerry was in high school

 

And by far the most interesting thing....

 

He said that Jerry never went to the doctor or got any sort of regular checkups....which frankly is astounding to me given his age and profession. Also, Michael Cole did an interview on Fox & Friends (FOXNEWS morning show for those outside of the States) today and said that Jerry went through all of the WWE medical testing and was completely cleared to be in the ring.......so something doesn't add up there. If Jerry really was subject to all the testing the rest of the roster goes through, surely they would have discovered a major blockage in one of his arteries, right?

 

I've seen it mentioned that WWE could possibly come under fire for having someone his age in the ring, and I don't think anything would come of it and I don't think there's anything wrong with someone in their 50's or 60's still wrestling necessarily.....but it is something to think about

 

Also, it's neither here nor there, and Dave didn't mention it, but I've heard for years that Lawler doesn't work out at all. Doesn't lift, doesn't run, doesn't do any sort of cardio.....all of his exercise is in the ring.....and in the bed presumably

[Mad Dog]

No, medical testing wouldn't have necessarily caught that kind of a blockage in his heart.

[flyonthewall2983]

Just curious, but how many known instances are there of guys having heart attacks in the ring, or shortly after a match? Didn't Mike DiBiase die of one?

[FLIK]

Just curious, but how many known instances are there of guys having heart attacks in the ring, or shortly after a match? Didn't Mike DiBiase die of one?

Moondog Spot in the early 2000's, in a really crazy coincidence his death was during a show in Memphis that was promoted to celebrate Lawler's birthday.

 

British wrestler King Kong Kirk died of a heart attack in the 80's during a tag match vs Big Daddy.

 

If you want to be technical about it, Misawa died from a heart attack as well with the shock of his neck snaping being what caused it.

[cm funk]

Gary Albright

[hammerva]

Didn't Moondog Spot get a heart attack during one of those crazy all over the building weapons brawls?

[kjh]

And by far the most interesting thing....

 

He said that Jerry never went to the doctor or got any sort of regular checkups....which frankly is astounding to me given his age and profession. Also, Michael Cole did an interview on Fox & Friends (FOXNEWS morning show for those outside of the States) today and said that Jerry went through all of the WWE medical testing and was completely cleared to be in the ring.......so something doesn't add up there. If Jerry really was subject to all the testing the rest of the roster goes through, surely they would have discovered a major blockage in one of his arteries, right?

I was asking similar question at Cageside Seats earlier today: http://www.cagesideseats.com/2012/9/12/332...ed-all-past-wwe

 

Update on this point from Meltzer in the Observer:

 

According to those close to him, Lawler was not someone who got regular check-ups and he avoided doctors. However, he was part of the WWE Wellness program according to company officials, which does include heart monitoring. Lawler was complaining of chest pains two nights earlier in Aruba, but chalked it up to the food that he ate. But those close to him noted that Lawler never complained about his health and something like that was rare.

I think the problem is that wrestlers will often avoid telling company doctors when something is wrong with them. Clearly he should have been encouraged to see a doctor after experiencing chest pain over the weekend and been honest about his symptoms, but hindsight is 20/20. Though, hopefully this will make WWE more vigilant about the health of their most veteran performers.

[Al]

My dad had a heart attack recently. Same story, wasn't a smoker/drinker, ate badly, etc. Also in his early '60s.

 

Hopefully this pushes Jerry to seek regular medical attention. He should have a lot of years left if he takes care of himself.

[goc]

Got banned from WrestlingClassics for saying the posters there accusing Ric Flair and Jim Ross of being Vince McMahon's media puppets because they said "it's a good thing it happened at a WWE show" were being cynical jerks. I guess the fact that it is true and stated by people here (before either of those two ever said) it can't stop some people's need to turn everything into "this is why Vince is the devil."

[ohtani's jacket]

An angioplasty is only minimally invasive. If he'd had surgery it would have been a bypass.

Most surgeries are only minimally invasive. My wife's knee surgery were two small holes created by a laser. And like I said, I have to tell the ER people about my wisdom teeth because that's deemed to be a surgical procedure that was performed on me. The medical profession would consider this a surgical procedure even if it's less risky than a bypass would've been.

 

Technically speaking, a medical procedure is considered surgical if it involves cutting the patient's tissue. Wisdom tooth extraction is a form of oral surgery. An angioplasty, by technical definition, isn't surgery and is commonly performed at hospitals where there is no Cardiothoracic surgery department. I worked in the operating theaters of one such hospital for a number of years. Here is some info on angioplasties: http://catalog.nucleusinc.com/displaymonograph.php?MID=127 Note the "advantages" section.

[KrisZ]

Kevin Lawler is saying that Jerry will be doing an interview with WMC that will be on their website soon.

[cm funk]

My dad passed of a heart attack a few years ago, in his late 50's. He was a drinker, and had an unbalanced diet (good stuff like protein shakes, oatmeal and vitamins, bad stuff like candy bars and fast food...definitely didn't eat enough vegetables), was a workout fanatic when he was younger and still went to the gym 4-5 days a week in his 50's though he was more limited in what he could do as he got older (could still do more pushups than me though....he loved the story about Angelo Poffo doing something crazy like 1000 pushups)....but he was also of the old school mentality that he didn't like doctors and thought he could tough out whatever life delt him on his own. Unlike Jerry though, when he started having angina in the year leading up to the heart attack he actually did go to a doctor, who recommended he have a stent put in......but of course my stubborn old man said, "A stent? That's all? I don't need that!" and went about his business until the day he collapsed and died. That stent most likely would have prevented that.

 

I guess my point is, none of us can beat the aging process without help and we shouldn't be stubborn to that cold hard truth. For every man who lives to be 90 on a diet of red meat and beer, there's a dozen just like him who don't, and just as many who live by most standards healthy lives and die before they reach old age. I'm only 30, but what happened to my father inspired me to try and live a little bit healthier, pay better attention to whatever signs my body is sending, and to start going for regular checkups after almost completely avoiding doctors during my 20's.

[KrisZ]

And now it's changed to Jerry's girlfriend Lauryn will be doing a live interview via phone

[Jingus]

What about those two guys who happened to die after they wrestled Ox Baker? From what I remember, those would at least kinda count.

 

Didn't Moondog Spot get a heart attack during one of those crazy all over the building weapons brawls?

Nah, it was just a legends' battle royal. Spot had trouble breathing, went to go lean on the ropes in the corner, and collapsed there.

[Ricky Jackson]

What about those two guys who happened to die after they wrestled Ox Baker? From what I remember, those would at least kinda count.

Just did some quick research, and neither died of heart attacks, contrary to legend. The first, Alberto Torres in 1971, died of a ruptured pancreas three days after a match with Baker according to the Online World of Wrestling. The second, Ray Gunkel in 1972, had heart disease, but it was apparently a blow to the chest during a match with Baker, causing a blood clot that went to his heart, which killed him, according to Slam!.

[Guest Nell Santucci]

Got banned from WrestlingClassics for saying the posters there accusing Ric Flair and Jim Ross of being Vince McMahon's media puppets because they said "it's a good thing it happened at a WWE show" were being cynical jerks. I guess the fact that it is true and stated by people here (before either of those two ever said) it can't stop some people's need to turn everything into "this is why Vince is the devil."

What will WrestlingClassics not ban people for? I was banned after I remembered that bozo "Martin Tori" for threatening to kill me over PM. But I guess he's one of Crimson Mask's boys, so I got banned. (Crimson Mask accused me of being "dishonest" about reporting him, which is nonsense. He's just a coward who didn't want to upset his drunken friend.) Through the debate on drawing power and Bruno Sammartino's honesty, I basically got invited here and have loved my stay since. But I must admit that it was hilarious seeing that egotistical dweeb, "Martin Tori", have a schizophrenic-like meltdown on the forum where he accused me of being someone from his IRL past and that he would fly to Los Angeles to "confront me" because I mocked his sorry attempts at being funny (and condescendingly dismissive) after responding to my well constructed arguments with sarcasm. That board is full of bitter marks of the territorial days who pretend that the territories could have survived past expansion had it not been for Vince McMahon buying off talent.

 

Now, I don't want to pick on Steve Te Tai, but the following is his article printed on Wrestling Observer. I want to highlight the obvious problems related to his central point, and it's worrisome that his article got published at all.

 

It seems like the idea of cancelling a WWE show when live tragedy strikes is never an option, and that is a troubling fact that seems to be the norm. I was the booker for WXW when Gary Albright had a heart attack right in our ring in Allentown, PA in 2000. As soon as we knew he wasn’t just knocked out from an errant hit during the match or anything, and it was something serious, the rest of the show was cancelled. It wasn’t even a consideration to continue despite the entire second half of a show remaining, which included the conclusion of a tournament that Gary was in. There was nothing that was set to occur after this match that we couldn’t do at a later date, and there was nothing that happened on Raw last night, that couldn’t have taken place at a later date. But regardless of any of that, our cancellation had nothing to do with that or the size of our show, it was simply the right thing to do.

 

 

 

Of course everyone remembers Owen Hart in Kansas City in 1999. The fact that it was so unprecedented and that it was on PPV, I can at least follow the thought process of why they continued, even if I disagree that they continued. But with so many tragedies occurring during, or so near a PPV or Raw show, they at least need to establish some sort of an emergency plan on how to handle the shows other than just going on and asking viewers to pretend that everything is ok, because every time it happens the WWE looks more and more foolish, and the viewers become more and more accustomed to having to watch an insensitive and awkward broadcast watching ridiculous scripted angles while real-life events just happened before their eyes.

 

 

 

While we hopefully will never find out how the NFL handles an on the field death, they do continue the games for life-altering injuries, primarily because it is an actual sport, and it would make a significant difference to the entire season to cut a game off like that. However, the WWE is scripted live entertainment, and unlike a 50 yard TD pass in an NFL game, a big title change or major angle can take place on a Monday or a Friday and be exactly the same.

 

 

 

I can understand continuing the Bryan/Kane-Prime Time Players match since it was in progress and they might not have even noticed what was going on at ringside, but once that match finished, scripted entertainment should’ve stopped, and the reality of the situation should’ve started. At that point it was clear the attention of the viewers was on Lawler not on the fate of Sheamus’ brogue kick anyway, and if they’re worried about their bottom line, it’s better to keep attention on the show for information rather than sending people online to get the most recent updates.

 

 

 

This is 2012, and we have seen enough live tragedies on TV to handle this. From Ronald Reagan and Congresswoman Gabby Gifford’s assassination attempts, OJ Simpson’s Bronco chase, even for good news like the death of Osama Bin Laden, viewers are accustomed to the idea of something newsworthy interrupting our regularly scheduled program and switching gears to what’s happening at that moment. And they are used to sitting there, watching people stand around talking, and reading scrolls at the bottom of the screen, waiting for the latest information. If the event is significant, and I think Jerry Lawler possibly collapsing to his death at ringside is significant enough to wrestling fans, that viewers would be glued to their seats even if they are denied Tyson Kidd’s titanic battle with Alberto Del Rio. Once they knew something was serious with Lawler after commercial, they should’ve gone to a taped segment or run taped matches from the past and run a scroll with the information on Lawler as was known at the time. This was not a $60 PPV, this was a free episode of the “longest running TV show in the history of television”, there would not have been financial repercussions for calling the audible to change the show from viewers or USA. They could’ve gone backstage and had Matt Striker update us on what was happening, interviews with EMT’s, other wrestlers thoughts, or eye witnesses, and then gone back and forth to taped matches with a scroll with what happened for viewers just tuning in along with updates. They could’ve had someone like John Cena, or even Vince McMahon, make a live announcement from the ramp (without entrance music) and ask for a moment of prayer, anything. It’s 2012 and viewers are used to reality and real-life happening on TV. Evidently the WWE is still not.

 

 

 

Once he was taken to the hospital and was more responsive that might’ve been an opening to resume matches, and once he is found to be stable that is a good time to resume as well, and they could still have a camera on the ambulance and hospital. But if they did stop the show, what would the WWE Universe have missed? A nothing match with Del Rio and Tyson Kidd? Lame minor angles with Booker T, Sheamus, the Miz? Did anything happen after Lawler went down, that couldn’t have taken place on Smackdown, even the Punk-Hart-Cena angle? Would Bret Hart have refused to fly to the Smackdown taping or something? Of course not. They don’t even separate Raw and Smackdown as brands anymore so what’s the big deal? Fans and the wrestlers didn’t even care about anything going on in the ring at that point and were only curious and concerned about Jerry Lawler. It’s not Otto the cameraman, it’s one of the greatest wrestlers of all time, and for the WWE Universe, the “John Madden” of the WWE. No one would’ve been upset if the show’s shenanigans ended at that point in the show. If anything, the ratings would’ve gone up as more fans would tune in to find out what was happening. And it’s not like they are going head to head with another exciting wrestling show they need to compete with. I also don’t imagine the live crowd would’ve been banging on the ticket window demanding refunds either. And once it was determined that Lawler was stable they could’ve done a dark fan pleasing main event anyway to send fans home even more happy.

 

 

 

But my real concern is that in 2012, most observers will feel the WWE did nothing wrong, because this has happened SO many times, their way of handling live tragedy has become the norm, and can’t even imagine doing it any differently at this point. Fans are conditioned to watching tragedy happen with WWE, and be forced to kayfabe themselves, while watching zombies wrestle each other with their minds clearly elsewhere. We know it’s all a work, all a performance, but when you start expecting fans to be part of the fantasy in suspending disbelief that a guy we know, just had a REAL heart attack, and expect us to ignore that, and instead expect us to tweet that Daniel Bryan is yelling at Kane in a fake scripted argument, is just a sad slice of reality in the 2012 wrestling world.

Let's suppose WWE ran "BREAKING NEWS: JERRY LAWLER HAD HEART ATTACK. WE WILL RESUME WHEN WE HAVE GOOD NEWS." How much do you want to bet that those in that circle would be up-in-arms on how the WWE is exploiting Lawler's article? In credit to him, he did cancel his show after Albright's heart attack. But his alternative is just silly. Pro-wrestling is its own thing and can't be compared to other sports because of their own quirks and idiosyncrasies. Continuing a show after Owen Hart died was certainly questionable, no doubt about it, especially how McMahon dealt with the case after Over the Edge. But his proposal would be seen as an attempt at a ratings grab. Why else do CNN and Fox have breaking news updates any time some spook confuses gatorade for mustard gas? It's practically a parody.

 

This all misses a bigger point. Lawler doesn't need to work for the WWE. He has plenty of his own money, and commentating for Raw is just something for Lawler to do on Monday night. Has Lawler complained? What's his position on the matter? Pseudo-moralistic articles are one of the more annoying articles on the Internet, since it takes so little brain power to write one. But I will credit him for not being a hypocrite. That's admirable. But again, his proposal would not have gone over well with the broader wrestling community.

[Bigelow34]

I don't agree with most of that article, especially the "interviews with EMTs, wrestlers backstage, eye witnesses..." and the whole camera at the hospital and ambulance thing. Those ideas are way exploitative and disrespectful then running through the motions on a couple matches while Cole gives updates from ringside.

 

I have seen some agree with me in that I didn't want that show to end at all because I wanted the updates and news to keep coming. There was a weird level of comfort up until 11:15 Monday night...knowing we were all watching and waiting for good news...any news.

[Guest Nell Santucci]

I don't agree with most of that article, especially the "interviews with EMTs, wrestlers backstage, eye witnesses..." and the whole camera at the hospital and ambulance thing. Those ideas are way exploitative and disrespectful then running through the motions on a couple matches while Cole gives updates from ringside.

 

I have seen some agree with me in that I didn't want that show to end at all because I wanted the updates and news to keep coming. There was a weird level of comfort up until 11:15 Monday night...knowing we were all watching and waiting for good news...any news.

Honestly, I'd hate accusing Te Tai of being dishonesty, but his article was unbelievable in so many ways. He'd have to have an autism to think the WWE would not get crucified or even have Lawler quit outright if the company ran breaking news headlines. The entire IWC community would be up-in-arms. I understand that there is a happy medium between pretending nothing happened, like what the WWE did, and outright canceling the show, but his article was dangerously irresponsible and typical.

 

I'm just glad Lawler is okay. My heart sunk when I actually clicked on the Observer headline. Since Lawler was feuding with Punk, I thought it was WON making a headline in relation to a Raw match being canceled with Lawler via an injury angle. I had no clue this was all real until I saw the second headline. Then, I came home and watched Raw. Thank God he's okay.

[Loss]

So many valid things worth criticizing WWE for. That anyone would pick their response to this as one of those things when there are so many better choices is baffling.

[cm funk]

I have no criticism at all of how WWE handled things, and seriously, all the credit in the world to everybody asked to perform after that, to Cole, and to everybody backstage who was juggling managing the show and caring for Lawler. Vince especially.

 

People will jump to criticize Vince due to Over the Edge 99, Melanie Pillman and the Benoit Tribute show.....but honestly, there was absolutely nothing wrong with how they proceeded on Monday. The only other alternative, and I was thinking this while it happened, was to tell the audience what had happened, go to some old Bret Hart matches to fill the time, and to have USA let allot them "commercial" time after 11 if they needed to give any breaking updates.

 

The idea of turning Lawler's life or death situation into a reality show is warped and sickening

[Marty]

Apparently, the King was walking for a bit today for the first time since the heart attack.

 

Regarding what the WWE could or couldn't have done, with the show or otherwise, for me, the important thing is that their EMTs were alert and ready enough to save Jerry's life, let alone where he is right now. I'm not ashamed to admit that every piece of news I've read about the King since Monday's horrible events have brought both a smile and a tear to my eye. I wish I could get someone close to me to read how fast his progress has been for inspiration.

[Death From Above]

Not sure why people would expect the show to be stopped for a non-fatal injury/incident, even a serious one. I mean... I watch football. And I've come to terms with the fact that a couple times a year I'm going to watch a guy roll off the field on a stretcher. Then the game starts again. I've never heard anyone suggest "that running back has a neck injury, cancel the game".

 

As for the King, I agree in a way he's incredibly fortunate to have been at a show that had a quality medical staff on site. There was some hockey player in the Russian KHL a couple years ago who died of a heart attack at the rink, (partially) because of a faulty defibrillator on site. That's obviously the other extreme end of the example, but as people have pointed out Lawler was out of the country recently at shows with likely less stellar services available, so all credit to the medical personnel on site who likely saved his life. And all the best to the King on his recovery.

[KrisZ]

Lauryn posted this pic of Jerry on her Facebook page per his request to let everyone know he is doing better.

 

[jdw]

Nice to see the pic.

 

I'll be critical of the WWE not stopping the show. I tossed this up on tOA on Tuesday:

 

The WWE should by this point have an "emergency plan" for something like this happening:

 

* get to commercial

* end the show

* have "standby material" always available in the truck simply to flip over to for filling the rest of the time slot

 

On the first... they go to commercials regularly during some of the longer matches, and have for *decades* going back to SNME. I know it's the hour roll over, but someone backstage has to make that decision and tell Cole and the ref (who also has an ear piece). If Vince is unwilling, then someone else in power (I'm pointing directly at Trip and/or Steph to have the stones to yell at Vince until it happens) needs to make it happen.

 

On the second... for fucks sake, they need to know this by now.

 

On the third, WWE Production has all those promo pieces that are run from the Truck / Backstage. It's not hard to have between 10 to 180 minutes of *something* to flip to when/if the decision is ever made to pull the plug. You see sporting events like Golf and Auto Racing do this when they get hit with a rain delay: they show last year's race, or some other exciting thing. Yes you're going to lose viewers. So the fuck what. Have handy something to air, even if it's last week's show, and you quick-edit it to show just enough stuff to fill the time. The stuff is all digital now, so it's easy to jump around between matches and non-wrestling.

 

I hate to sound morbid on this, but at this point I hope that Vince's death comes in the middle of the ring while cutting a Mr. McMahon promo, they cart his ass out to the back, and then The Show Must Go On almost as if nothing happened. Vince deserves that.

With perhaps the exception of the morbid last paragraph, I stand by the rest. This isn't complicated, and the WWE is talented enough to be prepared for these things. There are also people like Steph or Trip that need to have the balls to stand up to Vince if something like this happens.

 

John