goodhelmet Posted September 7, 2013 Report Share Posted September 7, 2013 In the second edition of Wrestling with the Past, Will and Charles look at the history of the NWA/WCW World Television Title. We begin with Dusty Rhodes’ reign in 1985 and work our way through until the bitter end. We discuss the greatness of Tully Blanchard and Arn Anderson, the ascension of Steve Austin, the amazing matches of William Regal and the tragedy of Rick Martel’s comeback. Oh! And Charles makes the case on why you should give Alex Wright a second chance. All this and much more. Enjoy! http://placetobenation.com/wrestling-with-...levision-title/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JazeUSA Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 downloaded it tonight, will listen to it tomorrow while Im working out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Boricua Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 I'm a little over an hour in, but I completely agree with the Arn Anderson comments. The way he carried himself in the ring and on interviews just commanded one's respect even if you didn't like him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted September 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 What blows my mind is that I was 11-12 years old and thinking that... but Tully Blanchard... FUCK THAT GUY! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 You know who cheered Tully, except the Magnum feud , this guy! Tully was awesome, standing up to Dusty. And while a ten year old would hate the Horsemen, a 15/ 16 year old from Jersey going to Philly shows is gonna love the Horsemen. Edit: here's why Dusty sucked as TV champ. Tully and Arn both defended it on WorldWide bi weekly, and Dusty never did. Austin had personality back then, that's why he was better than Zenk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 I've only listened to the first 15 minutes, and probably won't get to listen to the rest until tomorrow as I have to do some wrestling viewing, but this has been great so far and am excited to hear the rest. You're still on Tully and I don't know if you come back to Dusty later on but a talking point for us on some of our early shows was: while Dusty giving a rub to the title was great for the title, during that time frame it sort of eclipsed the US title and hurt it as the number 2 title. It felt like the TV title was the bigger deal. Then when the Tully-Dusty feud transitioned over to the National title and Arn became champ in 86, it really feels like the title becomes the 4th title behind the US which was now clearly back to being number 2 with the Nikita vs. Magnum TA feud, and the National title. Then the Dusty vs. Tully feud transitions to the TV title in September 86 and suddenly it's a bigger deal again. So while Dusty can elevate and bring focus to a title, it can also have potential detrimental effects and I'm not sure how long lasting it would be. When Nikita got it, it feels like a step down for him and his heat really started to fizzle. Will stop there, but just wanted to put it out to generate some conversation. Look forward to the rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smack2k Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 I've only listened to the first 15 minutes, and probably won't get to listen to the rest until tomorrow as I have to do some wrestling viewing, but this has been great so far and am excited to hear the rest. You're still on Tully and I don't know if you come back to Dusty later on but a talking point for us on some of our early shows was: while Dusty giving a rub to the title was great for the title, during that time frame it sort of eclipsed the US title and hurt it as the number 2 title. It felt like the TV title was the bigger deal. Then when the Tully-Dusty feud transitioned over to the National title and Arn became champ in 86, it really feels like the title becomes the 4th title behind the US which was now clearly back to being number 2 with the Nikita vs. Magnum TA feud, and the National title. Then the Dusty vs. Tully feud transitions to the TV title in September 86 and suddenly it's a bigger deal again. So while Dusty can elevate and bring focus to a title, it can also have potential detrimental effects and I'm not sure how long lasting it would be. When Nikita got it, it feels like a step down for him and his heat really started to fizzle. Will stop there, but just wanted to put it out to generate some conversation. Look forward to the rest. I gotta disagree there Parv...the TV title in all of 86 was still #3...from AA taking it, to winning the tournament, to Dusty saying he was coming after him.....THe National title thing with Tully and Dusty was done by March and moved over to Garvin and Tully....and that feud started over the National title, but quickly became about taped fists, and the title was really no where to be found until Wahoo beat Tully for it at a house show and then unified it with Nikita..Meanwhile, the TV Title was a BIG focus all year and into the fall as Dusty is after Arn and the Horsemen (Dusty wins it back on TV from Arn ) and into their biggest show was one of the biggest matches, Dusty vs. Tully - 1st Blood for the TV Title.... Once you get to the first half of '87, The TV title really kind of sits hand and hand with the US Title as Nikita is soo busy with the Superpowers, and Tully is doing the $10,000 TV challenge matches weekly on TBS (the match vs. BRad Armstrong comes to mind on WCW). When Lex wins the US Title at the Bash, the US title then takes it spot back as #2 while Dusty and Tully battle it out in ladder and barbed wire matches, with more of the money being on the line than the title...When Tully finally drops the belt to Nikita, the belt then takes a serious decline in how important it is... From 85 - Middle 87, the TV was a HUGE part of Crockett... Havent listened yet, but really lookin forward to it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveJRogers Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 This will tell you something about how the TV Title was treated during the Nitro/Hogan/Bischoff era. There is a podcast called What A Maneuver, not to be confused with Johnny Sorrow's show, this is part of a conglomerate with an action films podcast and a video game podcast, where they've gone through the Raws, Nitros, PPVs/Clashes of a given calender year. Basically just the week-to-week flagship shows in a weekly format, last year they went through 1996 and this year they've been doing 1997. Anyway, they get to early September in 1996, and they are talking about how the TV title hasn't been seen with Lex Luger in a while, who was champion since March and rarely, if ever, defended it on Nitro or PPV since he was involved in the Hogan-Dungeon of Doom/Horsemen shit fest, stuff with the tag titles and the early nWo stuff. Well, I tweeted to them that Luger dropped it on an episode of Saturday Night to Regal on August 20th (not sure if it aired that night, or was filmed that date)! And yet it was never even mentioned on their flagship TELEVISION PROGRAM! BTW, that name for the WCW show should borrow from the late WWE YouTube series Are You Serious?, WCW Screws Everything Up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 Will the show has been getting some really nice notices on the Observer board and Twitter. Looking forward to listening to part 2 tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted September 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 As long as people keep listening, we'll keep making them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstar Sleeze Posted September 9, 2013 Report Share Posted September 9, 2013 One hour in and already this show has really inspired me to watch two really good AA/Dusty matches that I never seen before. The TV Title change to Dusty, while a weird finish, maybe the best Dusty match save for the Backlund one I saw a while ago. I love when a podcast inspires stuff like that. Keep churning them out because they sound great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted September 10, 2013 Report Share Posted September 10, 2013 This was a good show with a really interesting topic. Loss the Steamboat/Austin marriage really is something I have believed in for years. Will about Regal I thought he was boring when I first saw him, but I totally love him now. I think Meltzer slept on him at 1st, but clearly respects him now. Now Orndorff is someone who could have been a good t.v champ. For starters he carried a lot of heat and that Center Stage crowd hated him with the Paula chants. He was also very intense. Windham was pretty great for the 1st half of 93. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted September 10, 2013 Report Share Posted September 10, 2013 Also in Martel's shoot he was not a fan of working with Booker-T. He said he dangerous and not careful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted September 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2013 I thought Regal was boring also. To me, guys like Regal and Buddy Rose are "wrestlers for adults". When you get to a certain age, you get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted September 10, 2013 Report Share Posted September 10, 2013 Great show guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smack2k Posted September 11, 2013 Report Share Posted September 11, 2013 Heard the rest of the show...great stuff....really really enjoyed it.... And I agree about Alex Wright...when he was turned heel and had that just asshole German gimmick going, it was fuckin money (to me anyway!). You just wanted to bitch slap him when he'd come out talk, and do that dumb fuckin dance and tell everyone how great he was...the true meaning of a great heel.....then Berlin happened...It was never gonna happen, but Wright should have been used better in that asshole gimmick. I was a big fan of the 5 month 97 era TV title (April to Sept) with Ultimo / Regal / Wright / fighting for it. They had some good matches with no stupid main event booking so you got finishes as well...decent matches that are worth re-watching.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted September 12, 2013 Report Share Posted September 12, 2013 As a kid I felt the same way about Regal but especially Finlay, who I hated being in the mix in 98. I am about thirty minutes in. NWA in 86-88 is a bit of a blind spot for me so I am typing this on the blackberry as I listen. I honestly think Charles and Will have great chemistry. I will admit I get Tully's TV and US title runs in 85 a little confused, but to me the biggest element to him in that run (and later with 91 Austin so we will see if you get to that) was his vulnerability. One element of the TV belt is the possibility that the challenger always has a chance on TV and I love something like the Kernoodle match with Tully since you had the sense that Tully was just fighting to hang on. Austin in 91 was all about the ten minute time limit. Zenk as the "guy who hangs out with the guys with the skateboards" is hilarious. I am an hour in now. The only thing I would add around Arn/Eaton is that there was a real division for the tv title at the end of 90 to when Austin gets it. Arn/Taylor/Eaton/Zenk were really in the mix for a few months and it is a real highlight of that era I think. Granted, all of that hit as a sweet spot for me as a kid, just like the way Austin's weekly matches vs the world (from Arachnaman to the Yellow Dog) did. It seemed like he had two-three title defenses every weekend, between SN, Main Event, Pro, Worldwide, Power Hour. I think his ppv match with Dustin was a huge deal for Dustin too, even only as a challenger. It was his first really big singles match. They also used Austin to make Bagwell in that great angle with Paul E. The "looked like second rate Flair, wrestled like a second rate Arn" is a great talking point. Hour-twenty in. What is striking to me about Regal is that he was only in his mid-twenties there. He carried himself as much older and more seasoned. The Barbarian vs face Regal match is not as necessary to watch as the Windham one but it is a great novelty. Ok, I have to stop for now but I hit the Windham part. 93 Windham is the only time post Florida where I really think he works as an Ace. He had the NWA belt and I think he was super inspired by that right until the writing of the wall shows up with him losing to Flair. He has the Regal match, the Scorpio match, the Lone Wolf thing going on, a great sit down interview with Solie, these bullrope and bunkhouse matches with Dustin I WISH we had on tape. You know what his NWA title run is sort of like actually? It's like a TV title run on steroids. He has these matches with guys like Zenk and Johnny Gunn where he just has this "big deal" presence to him. Also, I think saying he didn't get over in the WWF in 89 and he has a terrible run is iffy at best. What do we have that made tape? The really even, really hard-worked Tito vs Windham PTW match that I like a lot. Past that, he didn't get to do squat because Vince didn't trust him after how he left during his first run. If he had stayed into 90 he might have been put into a more interesting spot or given a program (though i agree with the rumor debunking that he wasn't getting Hennig's spot vs Hogan). There just aren't a lot of matches. I wish we had some of those Koko matches on tape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smack2k Posted September 12, 2013 Report Share Posted September 12, 2013 The Tully Blanchard vs. Brad Armstrong TBS TV Title match in early '87 epitomizes Tully's run as TV champ. The match sees him hanging on at the end to the time limit while Brad throws everything at him to try and take the title while Tully hangs on and then goes over and talks a ton of shit on him afterward... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted September 12, 2013 Report Share Posted September 12, 2013 I am so glad you guys wanted to end things on a high note because I saw I had ten minutes left and ten more minutes of Russo talk would have killed me. Oh there is the Austin vs Dustin mention. Well played. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigelow34 Posted September 13, 2013 Report Share Posted September 13, 2013 Finally digging into this one. Love the Arn/Tully discussion in the early years of the title. Lots of good points on why Arn is the guy you think of with that strap. I'll say it again, very proud to have this show on PTBN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted September 13, 2013 Report Share Posted September 13, 2013 Thanks! We're happy to be there as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Ridge Posted September 18, 2013 Report Share Posted September 18, 2013 Sitting at work listening to this podcast which helps my day go back faster. Wanting to see all the TV title matches from 80's I've missed. Getting to remember some of the great TV matches from 90's yearbooks. Enjoying the back and forth between Will and Loss. And then... Arrghhh!! ... Loss has to attack the Bret/Owen steel cage match, for a World Title from a different organization! I'm not debating the merits of that match and I've read Loss' thoughts in yearbook post and am aware most other posters here disliked it/found it boring. I just don't agree with the comparison Loss is making about Larry/Regal series (which I thought was great too) to the cage match. That match of all the stuff from 1994? If you are trying to relate things to 1994, I would have preferred hearing it compared to other WCW stuff like either Flair/Steamboat, Flair/Hogan, Austin/Steamboat, Rhodes/Buck, etc. I do get the US and TV titles confused. Would be thinking how why they aren't mentioning so and so and then looking at title histories after and realizing person never held TV title. The audio clips of wrestlers promos through out were great. Okerlund interviewing Alex Wright was a total riot. Wright seemed to have huge potential at the time since he was so young, had decent matches and a good look. Plus his music/dance moves were great. After the history of TV through 80's and early 90's, it was pretty depressing finish. Nice that you both went back to your favorites to close out show. I wonder why WWF never had a TV title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted September 18, 2013 Report Share Posted September 18, 2013 My purpose was to compare a match that got rave reviews that year to one that didn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstar Sleeze Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 Loss, if it is any solace, the Alex Wright dance move is always over like rover at the club. So is Norman Smiley's Big Wiggle...now that I think about all my club moves are wrestling-inspired. Who needs Ballroom dance classes when you have Monday Night Nitro! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 That is definitely comforting. I bet no one is copying the Nitro Girls at the club so nyah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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