Certifiable Carry Jobs

[JerryvonKramer]

On the latest Wresting with the Past show (IC title edition), Loss talked about two different "certifiable" carry jobs: the first was Rude vs. Warrior; the second was Bret vs. Bulldog.

 

I agree with him that both of those are carry jobs.

 

There are other matches that over the years have been talked up as carry jobs that I'd dispute: Flair vs. Luger springs to mind. I don't believe Luger was "carried" in those matches. Maybe, the GAB 88 match, maybe. But not the others.

 

So in this thread we can do two things:

 

1. What are some "certifiable" carry jobs?

 

2. What are some matches that have been hyped as carry jobs but in actuality weren't?

[cheapshot]

From the top of my head some famous carry jobs would include:

 

Bret vs. Diesel (Survivor Series 1995)

Regal vs Goldberg from Nitro (2/9/1998)

Bigelow vs. LT (WrestleMania XI)

 

Those are the first three off the top of my head, I am sure others are going to provide better examples than this.

[Yo-Yo's Roomie]

Bret Vs Yankem, Summerslam 1995.

[BlueGuy]

The first two "carry jobs" that come to mind are:

Flair vs. Kerry Von Erich fever match. At times, Von Erich even seemed to have a tough time walking.

Flair vs. Lex Luger Battle of the Belts

[sek69]

GAB 88 always seemed like the prototypical "Flair broomstick" match. To me it wasn't that Lex needed carried, but more that Flair was just on another level at that point.

[JerryvonKramer]

GAB 88 always seemed like the prototypical "Flair broomstick" match. To me it wasn't that Lex needed carried, but more that Flair was just on another level at that point.

See, I know this is not a popular view, but to me that match is Sting, Clash 1

[NintendoLogic]

The two Rock/Punk matches.

[s1rweeze]

Bret/Bulldog at Summerslam '92 and Bret/Tom Magee are the first that come to mind

[Jimmy Redman]

Cena vs Khali is an often used example.

 

Cena vs Lashley is an even better example. The best 'broomstick' match of the modern era I can think of.

[thebrainfollower]

Not to be difficult with that but has anyone here ever seen Bret/Magee? Seems unfair to call it a carry job unless you actually watch it.

[goodhelmet]

What is the Flair-Kerry fever match. I have seen tons of Flair-Kerry. Never felt like Kerry was being carried in any of them. Is this just the famous locker room story told in shoot interviews?

[Sidebottom]

Not to be difficult with that but has anyone here ever seen Bret/Magee? Seems unfair to call it a carry job unless you actually watch it.

The match wasn't taped as far as I know. Bret just wrote about it in his book...

[shoe]

The first two "carry jobs" that come to mind are:

Flair vs. Kerry Von Erich fever match. At times, Von Erich even seemed to have a tough time walking.

Flair vs. Lex Luger Battle of the Belts

 

Yea please elaborate. Are you referring to the hr draw where KVE is fucked up. I don't think it exists on tape or where Fritz claims that KVE had a fever and screwed by a foreign ref from Japan. This is the one Flair gets the title back. Which is a good match .

[Loss]

What is the Flair-Kerry fever match. I have seen tons of Flair-Kerry. Never felt like Kerry was being carried in any of them. Is this just the famous locker room story told in shoot interviews?

It doesn't exist on video. WCCW refused to air it because it was so bad.

[PeteF3]

Bret/Magee was a TV taping dark match and apparently Meltzer has seen it, as a source got him the tape.

 

I always thought the Kerry-fucked-up match was from Hawaii, but I could be conflating things since that match happened in so many places.

[shoe]

Bret/Magee was a TV taping dark match and apparently Meltzer has seen it, as a source got him the tape.

 

I always thought the Kerry-fucked-up match was from Hawaii, but I could be conflating things since that match happened in so many places.

 

The Hawaii match is really good.

[thebrainfollower]

I would assume he's talking about the match Flair mentions in his book where he basically wrestles himself.

[shoe]

I would assume he's talking about the match Flair mentions in his book where he basically wrestles himself.

The match doesn't exist on tape . So we have no idea if Flair carried him to a good match. The odds are it sucked, but Flair also said that the title change with Hart sucked so I'll take it with a grain of salt.

[Dylan Waco]

Tom Prichard carries a kid with almost no talent at all to a really good match this year. That's one of the more egregious carry jobs I can think of

[jdw]

On the latest Wresting with the Past show (IC title edition), Loss talked about two different "certifiable" carry jobs: the first was Rude vs. Warrior; the second was Bret vs. Bulldog.

 

I agree with him that both of those are carry jobs.

I hate the Warrior. I think Rude really grew as a worker over time. I really wanted to think Rude-Warrior was a total carry job. But on rewatch in 2007, it really isn't. Not really close to it. Rude is pretty choice in it. But Warrior brought far more stuff to the match than we recall, and it wasn't clubbering:

 

Match #29 - 08/28/89 Ultimate Warrior vs Rick Rude (16:02)

 

I liked it back in the day. Frank and I thought it held up surprisingly well when synch-o-visioning it last year. When I sat down tonight to watch it again and write it up, I thought my angle would be the Rude put on the best performance of the 80s in the WWF to get this level of match out of Warrior. Kawada-Albright level performance. While Rude's performance is really quite good in this, it's not really that which makes the match take off.

 

It's whoever laid the thing out, and whoever got that performance out of the Warrior. He brings shit to the table. Quite a bit, in fact. He brings more shit to the table here in terms of moves that Dynamite brought against Bret in their singles match, or that Bret brings in any of the matches thus far on the set (and Bret tends to bring a good deal to the moves table for the WWF of this era). It's not just that Warrior brings a lot of shit to the table to fill his end of controlling the match (which is the majority of it). He also doesn't fuck up like he typically does. He works a pair of transitions onto defense perfectly well, I'd go so far as to say "very good" in a Warrior Match context. He sells well enough for Rude. Sure, he superman comebacks, but that's the Warrior's job in this match.

 

I'm not saying the Warrior is a "good worker", or even average, or even anything other than poor. But within this match, on this night, what he did actually helped make this match as good as it was. Is that "good work", "doing shit", or "not fucking up"? I don't know.

 

I do know that I can set aside my typical hate of the Warrior and admit that this was a hell of a "WWF 80s Match", that Rude was at the top of his game for the era, and that Warrior played a pretty big role in helping this be one of the matches in the promotion in that decade that hold up best.

Before that I walked through the match in detail... and like I said, Warrior brought a shitload to the table in terms of spots and delivered on his own sell and the transitions.

 

Again... I hate Warrior. I'd just as soon give Sid credit in a match, and I hate Sid too! This is less of a carry job than we thought back in the day, and instead is really a well laid out match where both hit their marks very well relative to their own talent levels.

[jdw]

Since I mentioned it in there... yeah... Kawada- Gary was a terrific carry job.

 

John

[Bix]

Rude gets the credit because he's clearly the one pacing and calling the match, just like Hogan gets the in-ring credit for his Mania match Warrior even though he didn't lay it out.

 

John, by your standard Fuerza never carried Octagon.

[jdw]

Fuerza did more in his typical Octagon matches than Rude did in this. Warrior did more in this match than Octagon did in his typical Fuerza matches.

 

I walked through the match in detail. If all that shit Warrior is doing is because of Rude calling it for him, that's a bit surprising because it's not like Rude called other guys to do that shit in matches before... or that Warrior was doing it in every match as well. I'm willing to credit Pat for laying it out, but Warrior still had to deliver.

 

Seriously, Bix... I couldn't be more explicit in what my mindset going into that rewatch was:

 

When I sat down tonight to watch it again and write it up, I thought my angle would be the Rude put on the best performance of the 80s in the WWF to get this level of match out of Warrior. Kawada-Albright level performance.

If Rude carried it like that, I would have written it up: it's exactly what I was looking for. And I HATE Warrior with a passion.

 

Instead, I saw something quite different. :/

 

Since it's not a Ric Flair match, and I actually liked it the last time I watched it, I'd be happy to watch it again and write it up in even more detail. That stuff I listed at the beginning were just spots listed, and I didn't write them in detail. I'm not sure anyone wants to read something longer than I wrote.

 

John

[Bix]

I'm sure Patterson laid out the big moves. My point is Rude (well, Hogan too) is clearly carrying it with his pacing. Of the great Warrior matches, Rude is the only one working something approximating his usual match. Rude's usual way of getting the heat with the perpetual motion chin locks and whatnot happened to be a great fit for Warrior.

[jdw]

You're losing me. This in the first six minutes isn't Rick Rude Pacing:

 

UW - Lariat

UW - Press Slam to Floor

UW - a little outside the ring action: apron smash, table smash, belt shot

UW - vertical suplex on the floor

UW - fist drop outside

 

RR - great bump taking a toss over the top

 

UW - slam on the floor

UW - double axehandle off the top - NF

 

RR - some nice Bret-style corner bumps selling the back

 

UW - slam - NF

UW - vertical suplex - NF

UW - reverse atomic drop

UW - buttbuster (for lack of a better word)

 

Rude's control section after that was "three and a half minutes" in my write up. Then they did the double knock down transition and the ref bump for the Warrior House O' Fire comeback and the phantom pin, which ate up 3 minutes (1 minute of transition / Warrior Up and 2 minutes of Warrior kicking Rude's ass).

 

There first 12:30 of the match isn't Rude Pacing. 8 minutes is Warrior kicking the fuck out of him, 3:30 were Rude working him over, and a minute were the transition around the double knock out / ref bump. There wasn't a lot of the perpetual motion chin locks in those first 12:30, certainly not relative to Warrior kicking the fuck out of Rude.

 

From 12:30 to the finish aren't really Rude pacing either, or Rude spots. That powerbomby thing he did that nearly killed Warrior... I guess we can find him using it on some house show or other match before that, but I don't remember it and it got a "HOLY FUCK!" out of me when I watched it for the first time in more than a decade. Same thing with Warrior's Germanish Backdropish Suplex Thingy which was cool. The Piper thing is pure WWF rather than anything in the Rude playbook.

 

Seriously... I looked for shit that I wanted to give Ric credit for. They don't at all work a Rick Rude Match. They don't work a Warrior Match. It's something else, which is why it's so fucking awesome. I'm willing to give Patterson credit for laying it out. But if that's the case, he carried *both* of them because neither of them were ever this good before.