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Heated debates and arguments


Loss

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I'm all for spirited and even occasionally heated debates. But when it starts driving people away from the board and actually lowers the discourse instead of making it better, I'm not interested. Would you prefer more mod/admin intervention in cases like this, or should we continue our hands-off approach? Please post here. PM me your thoughts if you have a suggestion but don't want to be linked to it in front of everyone.

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I wasn't going to ban you, despite you PMing me to request that I do so. I had a feeling whatever anger was there would blow over, and you'd rescind your request. But you're not really leaving me with much choice, dude. I don't want you to get cancer or AIDS, but I do hope you have a happy, fulfilling life away from the wrestling. Bye.

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I think it's reached the point where stronger moderation is required. I hate that because I have been in many heated exchanges over the years, but it's getting to the point now where we have people who can't stay on topic, can't help but take cheap shots, can't separate the post from the poster. This goes far beyond Brick and whatever was going on with him.

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With Brick escorted out of the building, does this mean the Harley Race thread is dead?

 

I enjoy most of the long drawn out debates that happen around here. Sometimes it does get a little mind numbing when the people debating go around and around on the same point for multiple posts when it's obvious that neither will change their mind. It's not a huge deal, though. In those instances, I say have a mod bud in and ask to move the conversation forward. If that doesn't work, close the thread and move on.

 

Also, longtime posters should be given a little more leeway than newer members.

 

If name calling ensues or someone has a meltdown like Brick, don't waste any time, just ban them.

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Coming back to Loss's original point. Mostly everyone gets on here. Mostly everyone. But here are some things that are guaranteed to piss people off:

 

- Talking about your personal opinions whether that be views of matches or your interpretation of aspects of wrestling history as if they are fact or gospel. History is not a science, it's a humanity. We have certain facts but the conclusions we draw are inferences. So "what was Hitler's biggest mistake in WW2" is a matter of interpretation. You can make claims and back them up with evidence. But just because you are doing that, doesn't mean that your conclusion is the only possible one. Ergo, someone is not an idiot because they think Star Wars changed the way films are made, because they think the economy had a role to play in the decline of Mid-South, because they think Vince McMahon changed wrestling, because they think Tanahashi deserved his Hall of Fame spot, and so on and so forth.

 

That we debate such questions makes this board great. But if all such arguments devolve into one of the two sides being essentially pilloried for what is, after all, usually perfectly reasonable conclusions based on the evidence then that makes the board a worse place to be. Surely, every reasonable person would agree with that, no? I would hope they would.

 

If we're asking for tighter moderation, I'd ask for it in moments where a given poster comes out and uses the word "wrong". I'm not talking about situations where a stable fact like a date or the figures on a gate might be wrong, but in these scenarios where educated and intelligent people are looking at the evidence and drawing inferences. There's no "wrong" in such cases. You might agree with one person's conclusions more than another person's but "wrong"?

 

That's the sort of thing that is guaranteed to flare tempers. It's a disrespectful and ultimately harmful way of pursuing an argument. Most people don't go down that route but the people here who do make this place a less welcoming environment for newcomers and for established members alike. We all want to get along, so if you're going to argue don't be a dick about it. Speaking of which ...

 

- Talking down to people who disagree with your conclusions and saying things like "You don't know anything about pro wrestling or its history". There is no one on this board who doesn't know anything about pro wrestling. So don't act as if you've got a monopoly on wrestling knowledge. Also remember that people can read and learn more and watch more, as we are all doing all the time. There are more pleasant ways of disagreeing.

 

- Denigrating other posters using facile images or otherwise name calling. Really an extension of the last point. I have unfortunately succumb to this temptation a few times myself, but only after I've felt very frustrated with someone I thought was being entirely unreasonble and borderline inhuman. With tighter moderation and people abiding by the sort of civil discourse I've been outlining, it probably would never have got that far.

 

- Refusing to agree to disagree. This is a big one for PWO. If after going back and forth it's obvious that you are not going to agree, and the other person has said "ok, let's leave this". Don't make 15 more posts hammering your point home. 1. It's going to piss off that person and draw them back to something they clearly don't want to be a part of any more. 2. It's likely going to kill the thread dead there and there. 3. It's not going to go anywhere since the other person has clearly made up their mind already.

 

Ideally of course, you are arguing to the point where you reach some common ground or at least see the other person's point of view. But that requires conceding ground, acknowledging good points the other person has made, and generally arguing more like you're in a nice university seminar rather than a court of law. We know from experience on this board that not all posters are like that. Ideally you should be charitable to the person with whom you are debating, not seek to destroy them.

 

I'd love to think we could use this thread to turn a corner, at least if the moderators agreed to some of these principles ("the spirit of good debate"), they could at least intervene when they are being contravened. But I feel like we've said all this at least twice before, experience has made me sceptical. Certain leopards don't change their spots.

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Brick has always amused me so I'd be disappointed to see him go, especially when I know how easy it is to misread things in email / online.

 

That being said, much like when the court defined pornography, I think you know when things have crossed a line when you see it. When the discussion is no longer about wrestling and has devolved to personal attacks, its time to end things.

 

And on that note, Happy Thanksgiving to everyone here -- hope you and yours have a great holiday with some wrestling to follow tonight or tomorrow. Time for this guy to go see his loved ones and eat for the rest of the day. Enjoy!

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Well if it isn't too late, I'd just like to send out a plea for Brick to stay. I find his sense of humor to be irreplaceable. Don't go, man!

I would reinstate him, but would insist on an apology. Don't hold your breath.

 

 

Is it possible that his account was hacked?

Yes. He actually once failed a wellness exam after taking a legal over the counter supplement too. :)

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I gotta know, Brick! Is this a work or a shoot?

I gotta know, Brick, it is you and long-time forum poster, jdw in a flame-war. Who is calling this thing? Are you calling it as you go? Is it 50-50? God, I love Austin. :D :D :D

 

I don't know what the straw was that broke the camel's back, but it is a damn shame. I enjoyed doing a podcast with Brick the one time I did. I hope all is well with him.

 

When I was thinking about what I was thankful for, I gotta say this place ranks high up on the list. I love it here. Hope everyone has a Happy Thanksgiving! I am going to watch some wrestling now.

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