WWE Network... It's Here

[Mad Dog]

No, I think by about 7 that night the details were starting to filter in. And WWE would have been ahead of the curve as far as information goes. There were enough red flags out there that they shouldn't have done it. It was a really stupid decision.

[iamthedoctor]

 

 

My memory could be wrong but I think there were enough facts out there by the time Raw went on the air that they shouldn't have done the tribute.

 

Im glad they did the tribute it was great to see some japan Benoit matches.

 

Pardon?

 

You are glad they did a tribute to someone on the day they murdered their family, because you got to see some puro?

 

 

I was a big fan of Benoit, still am. Im not going to change my opinion just because what we do or dont know just to please online fans.

[NickH]

I feel bad for Vince. He has had to make some tough decisions in his life. The amount of people he has personally known that have died is staggering.

 

Here in Australia because RAW aired on Wednesday we never saw the tribute show, I think we got some best of RAW show instead. That's when I realized that something more serious than monoxide poisoning took place.

[C.S.]

I watched the censored WWECW episode of the Prichard podcast on the Network.

 

If Benoit was mentioned originally, that was definitely taken out - not a peep about him. As for what else was axed, I couldn't say. There did seem to be some larger-than-usual time gaps, suggesting that segments were cut out wholesale - but that's simply speculation on my part. They barely mentioned the first One Night Stand at all, before jumping right to the second - or I was confused and they were talking about the second one all along?

 

Some genuinely new information - at least to me. The big one being that Paul Heyman was working in WWE creative while ECW was still in business. Maybe it was mentioned in the sheets at the time, but I don't recall ever coming across it.

 

There's a knockdown dragout argument between Bruce and Conrad over the zombie and vampire gimmicks. Maybe this is the type of stuff they do on the audio podcast all the time - I don't know - but Conrad was being bleeped every other second here. Only in wrestling can someone act like an R-rated Jed Clampett and still get paid. (I do like Conrad though!)

 

At the end, Bruce buries a bunch of people - especially Braden Walker (Chris Harris). "He sucked."

 

A fun listen, despite being censored. But since we can't say what was actually cut, other than reasonably assuming Benoit was among them, those omissions didn't take anything away from the experience IMO.

[flyonthewall2983]

How long are the episodes generally? I can't imagine they let them go for 4-5 hours like they do on the podcast.

[C.S.]

How long are the episodes generally? I can't imagine they let them go for 4-5 hours like they do on the podcast.

 

90 minutes to two hours usually.

[Cornette's racket]

I think it's very easy to say that Vince should have done this or that in relation to Benoit. As others have said that William regal "tribute" video where he sounds as if he's just been hit by a train would seem to indicate the moment the talent knew something other than what was said to open the show.

[C.S.]

So, Conrad is saying WWECW wasn't the original topic and the "controversial" show was actually going to be something else.

 

 

 

I did ask for a pretty controversial one, and you can probably guess what that is to what is happening this week and what is happening this weekend. I'm thinking, okay, that is what we are going to talk about, and everybody loved it at the top, but some Lawyer somewhere thought, hey, let's wait a few weeks, we said okay, let's do the ECW one. Well, apparently, there were some things that we weren't supposed to talk about in there and you can probably guess what we are talking about. They wanted to cut him out, but there were some things that they want erased from history, but I thought, yeah, but we have to talk about him, so, we did our show like we normally do, and the guys in the studio thought that we handled it the right way.

 

I assume the show they wanted to do was CM Punk, and what they couldn't mention in the WWECW episode was Benoit. Pure guesses on my part, but they're the only things that make any sense.

 

http://wrestlinginc.com/wi/news/2018/0609/641658/conrad-thompson-on-why-bruce-prichard-wwe-network-podcast-was/

[Alucard]

Some genuinely new information - at least to me. The big one being that Paul Heyman was working in WWE creative while ECW was still in business. Maybe it was mentioned in the sheets at the time, but I don't recall ever coming across it.

 

There's a knockdown dragout argument between Bruce and Conrad over the zombie and vampire gimmicks. Maybe this is the type of stuff they do on the audio podcast all the time - I don't know - but Conrad was being bleeped every other second here. Only in wrestling can someone act like an R-rated Jed Clampett and still get paid. (I do like Conrad though!)

 

At the end, Bruce buries a bunch of people - especially Braden Walker (Chris Harris). "He sucked."

 

A fun listen, despite being censored. But since we can't say what was actually cut, other than reasonably assuming Benoit was among them, those omissions didn't take anything away from the experience IMO.

 

My favorite bit was learning that Vince was apparently a huge fan of Sabu and had big plans for him if only he cut promos. Makes me wish we got to see a big WWE Sabu push.

 

I felt bad for Braden Walker. Dude had some legit great singles matches in TNA (most notably the all time great Texas Death vs Storm in 07, but also good stuff over the years vs Jarrett, Raven, Christian, etc.) and they made it sound like he was just some tag guy who never wrestled singles matches or cut a promo in his life. Back in 08 I felt they never even gave him a chance, they threw him on TV after maybe 7 months in developmental, give him 2 under 5 minute matches then he's cut a month later.

 

I think Benoit was definitely cut, the way they abruptly went into the Johnny Nitro title win. Speaking of which, I wish they talked more about the Nitro/Punk series, specifically the night Punk finally won the title as that was such a 'everything comes together perfectly' kind of deal with a massive crowd pop for Punk finally winning in a legit great match after all of their prior matches never coming close to that level.

[offspring515]

If you watch the podcast when they start talking about Morrison/Punk Conrad begins with So Morrison is his replacement (Im paraphrasing) so obviously they cut out some mention of Benoit.

[C.S.]

My favorite bit was learning that Vince was apparently a huge fan of Sabu and had big plans for him if only he cut promos. Makes me wish we got to see a big WWE Sabu push.

I forgot to mention that. What a Joey Styles "OH MY GOD!" mind-blowing revelation.

 

And how fucking dumb was Sabu for not embracing that. I get that he probably didn't want to "sell out" and "become a WWE cartoon" but he was getting up there in years. Sometimes you have to know when to make the transition from "badass" to "sports-entertainer." George "The Animal" Steel and The Bushwackers both did it, and it added years to their careers. If what Bruce said is true, then Sabu is a schmuck and a mark for himself.

 

I felt bad for Braden Walker. Dude had some legit great singles matches in TNA (most notably the all time great Texas Death vs Storm in 07, but also good stuff over the years vs Jarrett, Raven, Christian, etc.) and they made it sound like he was just some tag guy who never wrestled singles matches or cut a promo in his life. Back in 08 I felt they never even gave him a chance, they threw him on TV after maybe 7 months in developmental, give him 2 under 5 minute matches then he's cut a month later.

 

To be fair, the dude gained a shit-ton of weight, didn't show much in his WWE matches and promos, and shouldn't have needed seven months in developmental in the first place.

 

I think Benoit was definitely cut, the way they abruptly went into the Johnny Nitro title win. Speaking of which, I wish they talked more about the Nitro/Punk series, specifically the night Punk finally won the title as that was such a 'everything comes together perfectly' kind of deal with a massive crowd pop for Punk finally winning in a legit great match after all of their prior matches never coming close to that level.

 

I wonder if the notoriously cranky Punk boo boo-faced and purposely tanked the matches he was losing, only to turn up the volume for his big win.

[SomethingSavage]

Between the WWECW and CM punk episodes of Something To Wrestle, they cover the planned Benoit/Punk program transitioning into the full-fledged Punk/Morrison series pretty extensively on the podcast.

 

I remember hearing about Vince being high on Sabu a good while back. I want to say it was on one of Court's early MLW shows, with him talking about how Vince thought Sabu learning to cut a promo would be the key to unlocking his potential as a main event act. Supposedly Heyman resisted the most and fought the idea (for Sabu, who seemed to just do what Paul suggested), but they ran with it anyway. So Sabu was losing to Cena in short order, and they quickly reverted back to business as usual.

[Grimmas]

 

My favorite bit was learning that Vince was apparently a huge fan of Sabu and had big plans for him if only he cut promos. Makes me wish we got to see a big WWE Sabu push.

I forgot to mention that. What a Joey Styles "OH MY GOD!" mind-blowing revelation.

 

And how fucking dumb was Sabu for not embracing that. I get that he probably didn't want to "sell out" and "become a WWE cartoon" but he was getting up there in years. Sometimes you have to know when to make the transition from "badass" to "sports-entertainer." George "The Animal" Steel and The Bushwackers both did it, and it added years to their careers. If what Bruce said is true, then Sabu is a schmuck and a mark for himself.

 

 

I never get this attitude? We are going to chastise everybody who doesn't do something they don't want to do, because they could had got money?

 

Money isn't everything.

[C.S.]

I never get this attitude? We are going to chastise everybody who doesn't do something they don't want to do, because they could had got money?

 

Money isn't everything.

Who said anything about money? I said career longevity. Yes, money (and the more important part here, security) is part of that, but not all of it. It sure as hell beats prostituting himself in high school gyms for $50 a shot like a weathered old gigolo, which is probably what he's doing now. "The Wrestler," anyone?

[Grimmas]

 

I never get this attitude? We are going to chastise everybody who doesn't do something they don't want to do, because they could had got money?

 

Money isn't everything.

Who said anything about money? I said career longevity. Yes, money (and the more important part here, security) is part of that, but not all of it. It sure as hell beats prostituting himself in high school gyms for $50 a shot like a weathered old gigolo, which is probably what he's doing now. "The Wrestler," anyone?

 

Sabu made his choice, he cared more about something else than money and career longevity. Who are you to tell him he made the wrong choice?

 

Do you know if he's happy or not happy right now with his life?

[SPS]

 

 

I never get this attitude? We are going to chastise everybody who doesn't do something they don't want to do, because they could had got money?

 

Money isn't everything.

Who said anything about money? I said career longevity. Yes, money (and the more important part here, security) is part of that, but not all of it. It sure as hell beats prostituting himself in high school gyms for $50 a shot like a weathered old gigolo, which is probably what he's doing now. "The Wrestler," anyone?

 

Sabu made his choice, he cared more about something else than money and career longevity. Who are you to tell him he made the wrong choice?

 

Do you know if he's happy or not happy right now with his life?

 

 

In his KC Breaking Kayfabe interview from a year or so ago he seemed pretty despondent. When asked if he thought he stayed around too ling he said "probably" and in the interview he did in the UK about being offered the WWF role as Sultan he seemed to acknowledge he probably should've taken it in hindsight. I don't think Sabu thinks he can't survive the consequences of his choices but he does certainly seem to be more accepting to admit he shouldn't have made some of the choices he did.

[Grimmas]

 

 

 

I never get this attitude? We are going to chastise everybody who doesn't do something they don't want to do, because they could had got money?

 

Money isn't everything.

Who said anything about money? I said career longevity. Yes, money (and the more important part here, security) is part of that, but not all of it. It sure as hell beats prostituting himself in high school gyms for $50 a shot like a weathered old gigolo, which is probably what he's doing now. "The Wrestler," anyone?

 

Sabu made his choice, he cared more about something else than money and career longevity. Who are you to tell him he made the wrong choice?

 

Do you know if he's happy or not happy right now with his life?

 

 

In his KC Breaking Kayfabe interview from a year or so ago he seemed pretty despondent. When asked if he thought he stayed around too ling he said "probably" and in the interview he did in the UK about being offered the WWF role as Sultan he seemed to acknowledge he probably should've taken it in hindsight. I don't think Sabu thinks he can't survive the consequences of his choices but he does certainly seem to be more accepting to admit he shouldn't have made some of the choices he did.

 

Which is completely his right.

 

I just hate the notion that somebody automatically made the wrong choice because they turned dome some money or career opportunity. Everybody has different goals and needs in life.

[Mad Dog]

My problem with that though is you get to 55 and you killed yourself and have nothing to show for it. I understand the art argument but I think you need to balance that with your wallet sometimes too. Getting a couple of years in the WWE at the end of your career can set you up nicely.

[C.S.]

My problem with that though is you get to 55 and you killed yourself and have nothing to show for it. I understand the art argument but I think you need to balance that with your wallet sometimes too. Getting a couple of years in the WWE at the end of your career can set you up nicely.

Which was exactly my point.

[Grimmas]

and what if he didn't want to do it? He should had anyway?

[Mad Dog]

I mean it's his choice nut what if he played ball and got 5 years with WWE and had a couple hundred thousand in his bank right now? I get that money isn't everything but for something like wrestling or other jobs where you have a limited shelf life you need to cash in at some point.

[Loss]

Sabu love was reported at the time too. Vince asked one of the agents why he wasn't hired years earlier. He liked how old school he was, apparently.

 

This was during the same period that Vince said casually in a meeting that 1979-1985 was his favorite era of wrestling, and Tony Atlas was hired back for no apparent reason.

[C.S.]

The hard truth: Sabu is a nobody. He's already forgotten outside of message boards like this one.

 

Like The Bushwackers and George "The Animal" Steele before him, Mick Foley cashed in his chips. He played the Mr. Socko hand and became a comedy character - and in the process, he turned himself into a more beloved figure than ever. He still has a career inside and outside the industry. He'll be remembered long after he's gone.

 

Yes, Sabu made a shit-ton of sacrifices for his "art." So did Mick Foley.

 

One of them was smart at the end of his career. The other was Sabu.

[The Thread Killer]

Dude, did Sabu run over your dog or something?

As the board's resident Sabu fanboy (immortalized when I was his high vote in the GWE) I strongly disagree with your opinions when it comes to him.

There is no way Sabu acquiescing to Vince McMahon's and the WWE creative team's "tweaks" to his character would have ever worked, anyhow. If Sabu had changed who he was, he wouldn't have been Sabu. His Uncle made him Sabu. Sabu was not only trained by The Sheik, but he was his nephew and grew up around him. Sabu didn't have a father in the picture and pretty much idolized The Sheik from the time he was a kid. Sabu has gone on record as saying he has designed his entire career as a living tribute to his Uncle. So he did (and does) things the way his Uncle did, and would do them no other way.

I know I harp on this point a lot, but in my signature there is a link to a book called "Drawing Heat" by Professor Jim Freedman. The Sheik features heavily in this book. Prof. Freedman was never a wrestling fan and knew nothing about Pro Wrestling when he started writing that book, so he met and got to know The Sheik from a totally unbiased perspective. The picture he paints of The Sheik (which has been pretty much confirmed in every Shoot Interview where his name has come up) is of a man who didn't have "a gimmick." His wife called him Sheik. His kids called him Sheik. He took being The Sheik deadly serious and there is no way that didn't rub off on Sabu.

Secondly, Sabu (by his own admission) sucks at promos. Sabu tells a hilarious story where during his training, his Uncle asked him to cut a promo. Sabu tried, and The Sheik said to him: "Promise me you'll never do that again." They agreed that he (like his Uncle) wouldn't speak. Everybody else talks, and yells, and points at the camera, and threatens, and puts themselves over...so he wouldn't say a word. He'd just point up. He doesn't even like talking to people he doesn't know in private, which is one of the reasons he smokes so much pot. He has Social Anxiety Disorder and gets so anxious when he is asked to speak in front of people he doesn't know, that he stutters. This is noticeable in the aforementioned Kayfabe Commentary "Breaking Kayfabe" interview. There is no way that he ever would have become comfortable enough cutting promos - especially scripted promos - that it would have been enough to satisfy Vince McMahon and the WWE.

Finally, the main factor is that Sabu hated working for WWE. Hated it with a passion. He freely admits that he "sold out" and worked there for the money but he was so miserable there that in the end, he kept doing things trying to get himself fired - and eventually he did. The big difference between Mick Foley and Sabu is that Foley was willing to do pretty much anything to succeed in the WWF and make money. I don't think Sabu is adverse to making money - especially considering the medical bills he has had to deal with over the past few years - but he has gone on record saying that there are plenty of things he wouldn't and won't do to make it.

I don't think Sabu is a nobody. He will be remembered by a lot of hardcore fans. Hell, I think he is actually pretty damn unique, which is not easy to pull off in Pro Wrestling.

[C.S.]

Sabu ran over my pet iguana.

 

No, seriously, that was a fantastic post, Thread Killer.

 

You obviously know more about Sabu than I do, particularly as it pertains to his personal life. Yeah, I can say "well, he should have gone into WWE with a positive attitude" or "things were different in The Sheik's day and not everything he did applies to today's version of the business," but that would really just be me halfheartedly arguing for the sake of it. I won't do that, because your post accomplished something rare - it convinced me to see the other side of an issue. While I still believe in a lot of what I said about wrestlers and wrestling in general, I also think your defense was pretty damn compelling when it comes to Sabu the person specifically.

 

P.S. You've piqued my curiosity re: the Freedman book. I've downloaded a free sample to my Kindle.