El-P Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 Damn. That kind of stuff really kills the myth. Social medias be damned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 That is a really good point I hadn't read anywhere, John. I know the build for this match wasn't everyone's cup of tea, but in hindsight, it really was underwhelming and, most surprisingly maybe, not promoted AT ALL like it could've/should've been considering that it was most likely the last match of the Undertaker's career. For example, Flair's retirement at WM24 made a ton of sense and was basically 100% guaranteed going into the event. The match was basically a formality (and one I enjoyed thoroughly) as it really was promoted as the last time you'll ever see Ric Flair wrestle. Had they promoted Taker's last match in a similar fashion, you would have had a HUGE selling point for the casual/Attitude Era fans and it really is surprising that they decided to keep it a secret. Kudos to them, though, because I honestly don't think I've ever been so shocked as a fan and I've been watching WWE & WCW for 20+ years. Slight difference: Ric's was a "Retirement Stipulation" - in the sense that if he lost, he would retire. I wouldn't book Taker that way. I would just have him say that he's retiring after Mania 30, it will be his last match, and "I want Wrestler X to be my final opponent." If I'm Vince, I totally let him pick off the roster who he wants to go out with. I also think that does add some drama to it. My guess is that people will think he's not going to go out on a loss. But if his initial storyline is that he's broken down and has one last match in him, he wants it at Mania, and he wants it against X... then maybe you get some doubt. You also have some cover for him looking banged up and what not in there: he's admitted his tank is running low. As a selling point with one of the other top stars, I tend to think it sells tickets. Probably more than anything they could have put on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 That's the same kind of logic that says UT was never gonna lose in the first place. Well, no one believed he could lose and the match was a failure for that reason (among others). It will be memorable because of the result, but him losing that way after that match and that finish was just a big time fail. Of course people were shocked. But it fell flat and seemed anticlimatic. Anyway, no, after such a shock, there was no way in hell Bryan was not winning. Lightning just doesn't strike twice that way. I don't think you can call it a failure. It was one of the more shocking results in wrestling history, possibly the most shocking result in WWE history since Koloff beat Sammartino. The post-match was surreal and you could hear a pin drop, but that's a genuine reaction like a sports upset. The match wasn't any good, but the alternative is a self-conscious WWE epic with Brock second guessing himself over whether he should end the streak, telling Taker he loves him, and the crowd chanting "Thank you, Taker" over and over. I think the "holy shit" moment was better. It was just a bit awkward at the end with him being concussed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 Someone compared the reaction to the loss with what Sammartino/Koloff must've felt like. I wish I could remember where, I could swear it was this forum. I may be in the minority, but I really liked the ending. Because it was different. I've been a fan of wrestling since 1990, when I was eight years old. For the most part, I generally know what's coming because I'm familiar with booking patterns. The slow builds, the heat, the comebacks, etc. I've never encountered a reaction like this, ever. And that a wrestling match can inspire that reaction after all this time, I appreciate that. Warts and all. Two other notes. One, I think it's a credit to the Undertaker that when presented with situations where it seemed the win was obvious (which I felt every year from WM's 24-29), he manages to work the crowd into thinking the result is in doubt. Every year. Second, people continually freak out over the Undertaker losing, or Bryan losing, or Cena winning, etc. When the fans still care about the result, it doesn't matter how much behind the curtain they've seen, or think they've seen. They're emotionally invested. (Coke to Ohtani's Jacket, who posted some similar thoughts while I was typing.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 Undertaker losing made it seem like anything could happen in the main event and helped those near falls at the end have a bit more scare to them. It helped the show a lot more than an Undertaker victory would have. It was a clever bit of booking even if the match was dead. Totally disagree. Once Taker lost, there was no way in hell Bryan wasn't winning. No way there were sending people home after watching both Taker and Bryan lose. Our group were 4 adults, a 14 year old and a 16 year old. When Taker won, the 16 year old called Bryan winning. That after all of us thinking that if the threeway went on last, Bryan was winning. The 16 year old doesn't read the WON or the Torch or hang out on PWO, or really talk hardcore booking with guys like Hoback. He's just a fan, follows the WWE a bit... And he knew what was going to happen in the main. The "Anything Can Happen Now" nonsense is just fans like us thinking too hard about it. Why would he think this? In his lifetime of watching Wrestlemania, just like the entire lifetime of the event, the Good Guy wins the Last Match almost all the time. Sure, there's some shit like Miz over Cena. But they are the exceptions to the Rule. Good Guy wins Last Match. If the 3-way went on last, Bryan was winning. If Taker went on last, Bryan might get screwed and of course Taker was winning. Taker jobbing meant that there was zero chance that there would be another Miz Moment (or Triple H 2000 moment). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 I have never gone from being totally non invested in a match to being emotionally devastated by the end. Takers old gunfighter entrance makes it all the more poignant . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 Did you shed a tear, Sorrow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 Did you shed a tear, Sorrow? At first I was like, "Well that just happened"and I was in shock. And as it sunk in I literally felt like someone knocked the air out of my gut. By the time Taker walked backstage I had those stinging burning tears in the corners of eyes. I had to get up and wash my face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyonthewall2983 Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 Someone compared the reaction to the loss with what Sammartino/Koloff must've felt like. I said it over in the WM thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 I don't think you can call it a failure. It was one of the more shocking results in wrestling history, possibly the most shocking result in WWE history since Koloff beat Sammartino. The post-match was surreal and you could hear a pin drop, but that's a genuine reaction like a sports upset. I call it a failure because it was anti-climatic as hell. Of course people were shocked. But it was just a surprise result without much build to it. Every other year, although it was a given Taker wasn't losing, they always managed to get at least one pinfall attempt which got a huge reaction like people actually believed Taker would lose. I didn't get that felling here. People weren't buying the match, and that's why they were so shocked when it happened. I think had it happened in an efficient match, with an efficient build, the reaction to Taker losing would have been much more powerful. Seriously, the felling I got here was more "WTF happened ?" rather than "Holy shit !!". So yeah, it's historical, and the post-match was kinda funny. But that's it. Lesnar didn't get much reaction for pinning Taker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parts Unknown Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 I liked that Undertaker quietly stumbled up the ramp after the match. The loss and that image humanized him. He looked pretty bad last night and I have zero interest in seeing him wrestle again. This x 100 As for taker/sting, never understood the appeal, have zero interest. Just because they are dark characters doesnt warrant it being billed as a dream match. Match would of sucked in 97 let alone in 2014. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s1rweeze Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 It'd be kinda cool if next year's HOF class consisted of Undertaker and no one else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyonthewall2983 Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 They did it for Andre the first year, so why not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidebottom Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 I don't think Sunday night was the last of the Undertaker. I still see a Cena / Undertaker match on the table. It could be built around the fact that the Undertaker thinks he is done because he lost his streak, but Cena forces him to remember he was much more than that over the last 20 so years. He could ride into Wrestlemania 31 for one last hoorar. Or something. If this is the end for Taker, I'm stunned the huge potential of a Cena / Taker money match wasn't the way to go out with the same result, but then, WWE's history is full of what I perceive to be missed oppertunites amongst all of their greatness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidebottom Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 It'd be kinda cool if next year's HOF class consisted of Undertaker and no one else Would be a great idea. You could have several big stars line up to speak about him: Rock, Austin, Bret, HHH, Michaels for instance, followed by the speech of the man himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s1rweeze Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 It'd be kinda cool if next year's HOF class consisted of Undertaker and no one else Would be a great idea. You could have several big stars line up to speak about him: Rock, Austin, Bret, HHH, Michaels for instance, followed by the speech of the man himself. As long as Vince did the final intro. I need to hear one last "theee UNNNNNNDERRRRTAKERRRRRRRRRRRRR" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNLister Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 Maybe try to put together a guard of honor of his streak victims (minus Bossman.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidebottom Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 Maybe try to put together a guard of honor of his streak victims (minus Bossman.) Poor Giant Gonzalez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButchReedMark Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 Then have Mark Henry break out of the ranks with the World's Strongest Slam on the Undertaker as He's Not Done Yet, Son. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Farmer Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 After the beating he took, who knows if Taker plans to wrestle again. He looked like he dropped a bunch of weight and than he had not worked out in the last year. You can just see how banged up and almost fragile he looks, I can see this being his Steve Austin swan song. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 Does anyone else think that Taker looks like an aging transvestite who'd hang about in the sorts of seedy NYC clubs we see in Cruising? In any case, that's what I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(BP) Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 I don't know why he's gone overboard with the fake n' bake tan the last few years. He looks like a burn victim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 He looked orange this year. Just bizarre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted April 9, 2014 Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 I thought he was going for a Gronda look. Regarding not billing it as Undertaker's retirement match, maybe WWE were hedging their bets. If Undertaker feels he can go next year, there's a built in rematch. If not, there's no pressure on him to come back and do the time honoured tradition on the way out, because he's already done the passing of the torch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(BP) Posted April 9, 2014 Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 Maybe next year they'll do an angle where Taker is in denial that it's really over and try to redeem himself in a title match against either Cena or Bryan. If they're smart about how they lay it out either one of those guys could carry him to good match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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