Kenta Kobashi

[Grimmas]

Discuss here.

[Loss]

We're not going to find a more talented pro wrestler on this list than Kenta Kobashi. Great facial expressions and selling, and probably better heavyweight offense and execution than anyone ever. I could see myself putting Kobashi as high as number two, so I'm not down on him at all. If he's hurt by anything, it's that his matches sometimes felt too much like The Kobashi Show, where he was showing off how great he was as much as or more than giving a performance for the sake of the match. It's a hard thing to really describe in a way that makes sense, but I expect that people who have watched a lot of Kobashi will get that. There's nothing understated about the guy, but the constant theatrical approach can sometimes be a lot to bear. As much as people love the 6/9/95 tag, I do too, but Kobashi's performance was so over the top there that the match lost something for me. For that reason, it's never been a match I've been as gaga over as most people.

[WingedEagle]

In going through yearbooks and some NOAH footage I've been watching out for some of the nits that people pick at with Kobashi as he was resonated with me more than anyone in Japan when I first started getting tapes. I'm happy to say I'm still pumping my fist when he goes up to miss a moonsault and legit sitting up or getting off the couch more for his tropes and charisma just as much as always. Maybe some of the issues others have with him will speak to me as I rewatch more, but I suspect he'll beat back many challengers on my ballot.

[Yo-Yo's Roomie]

We could do with John pulling over his Kobashi Gordy list for this, or at least providing a link to where it can be found.

[Childs]

We're not going to find a more talented pro wrestler on this list than Kenta Kobashi. Great facial expressions and selling, and probably better heavyweight offense and execution than anyone ever. I could see myself putting Kobashi as high as number two, so I'm not down on him at all. If he's hurt by anything, it's that his matches sometimes felt too much like The Kobashi Show, where he was showing off how great he was as much as or more than giving a performance for the sake of the match. It's a hard thing to really describe in a way that makes sense, but I expect that people who have watched a lot of Kobashi will get that. There's nothing understated about the guy, but the constant theatrical approach can sometimes be a lot to bear. As much as people love the 6/9/95 tag, I do too, but Kobashi's performance was so over the top there that the match lost something for me. For that reason, it's never been a match I've been as gaga over as most people.

 

I always find it interesting when you refer to him as possibly the most talented wrestler ever. I actually don't think he was an elite natural talent. But he wanted to be great more than any wrestler I've ever seen. I mean, he loved it so much he literally seemed willing to work himself to death, or at least severe debilitation.

 

Dave had some interesting material about Kobashi's work ethic in his retirement bio, which reinforced my views on this.

 

But yeah, you watch the way he moved around the ring and it wasn't the stuff of a born phenom.

[tim]

I feel like Kobashi is a guy who suffered a bit from the post-90s reaction within our corner of internet fandom. He was a super-popular gateway drug kind of Japanese wrestler, which can sometimes earn the ire of hardcore fans of anything. And there's some truth to the criticisms he's received, a lot of his 2000s work was formulaic and over the top. I don't like that 2003 Misawa match at all. His "epic" style main event matches could feel incredible bloated. And where you have a guy like Misawa who seems to become more special and interesting the more you watch him and the more you pay attention, Kobashi is the opposite: very striking initially, somewhat less interesting and special the more you watch and pay attention. All that said, he still does well on my list, very well. No doubt he has tons of all time level great matches. Super charismatic. As overboard as he could get with it, Kobashi as a state of the art super-offense heavyweight can be pretty awesome. His 2000s stuff still has tons of great matches. Top 30.

[dawho5]

So much to say here...

 

As far as the positives go, Kobashi has so many. He always seemed in great shape and had the drive to keep going well past the point most would have mailed it in. Kobashi had such a diverse and impressive moveset that was always well-executed. He was pretty athletic for a guy built the way he was, even after multiple knee surgeries. His facial expressions and ability to get the crowd into the match with his own emotions was something that went above and beyond what most wrestlers could ever dream of doing. I have no issue at all saying Kenta Kobashi was one of the best and most natural babyfaces in all of wrestling anywhere. When he was in trouble, you'd hear and see fan reactions (in Japanese crowds) that were stunning. And now to my favorite part about Kenta Kobashi. He was one of the best matwork guys I've ever seen. You know how I mentioned he always had drive and had a lot in the tank? Kobashi never sat in a hold real long. He worked that hold for maybe 30 seconds to a minute and chained it into another hold that hit that same bodypart. Sometimes 3 or 4 times in sequence. And t never looked like he just had his way with the opponent, it looked like there was a struggle going on. If there is one real huge downfall to the way All Japan wrestling style evolved in the 90s it's that we never got to see Kobashi use that aspect of his skillset.

 

As for the negatives, he has a few of those too. First and foremost is his complete lack of being able to build a match on his own. When he's in the ring with somebody he knows can structure a match well (Kawada, Taue, Takayama, Misawa, Ogawa), Kobashi's spots come where they ought to and he looks great. When he's in the ring with somebody he doesn't trust (Akiyama stands out here), Kobashi really struggles to put his spots where they need to be. He'll throw 2 or 3 half nelson suplexes at a guy who is two or three tiers below him on the card. He'll no-sell their big moves at the very wrong times. Part of the problem is he subscribes to the lazy Misawa style of match structuring after 1/97 without really being the guy to do that or truly understanding it. The constant need for attention can really take away from a match where Kobashi isn't supposed to be the center of attention. When you get to 2004 and on Kobashi, a lot of his matches revolve around him beating the shit out of people with chop variations (I maintain that the way he chops is a bit dickish and he probably should have stuck to the standard method) with little to no selling. It just underlines his lack of understanding of the basic structuring of things combined with being a glory hog. He seems to not get that he is at his best as the babyface making the impassioned comeback after taking a beating (and acting like that beating took place so the crowd can invest in it) in addition to wanting to be seen in the best light possible. It's very frustrating to watch knowing what the man is capable of.

 

I'll try to put together a list of positive and negative matches (for me) from what I've seen that point out the things I've mentioned.

[WingedEagle]

As for the negatives, he has a few of those too. First and foremost is his complete lack of being able to build a match on his own. When he's in the ring with somebody he knows can structure a match well (Kawada, Taue, Takayama, Misawa, Ogawa), Kobashi's spots come where they ought to and he looks great. When he's in the ring with somebody he doesn't trust (Akiyama stands out here), Kobashi really struggles to put his spots where they need to be. I'll try to put together a list of positive and negative matches (for me) from what I've seen that point out the things I've mentioned.

 

Curious to check out some of the examples you point to here before injury / illness compromised him. They're not flaws I found in him at all but want to see what I'm missing or if it just doesn't matter to me.

[Timbo Slice]

Always saw him as the #4 guy in the Pillars. I will put him below Taue on my ballot. The one thing I will say about him is that his two-year run as GHC champ is one of the best championship reigns ever, working against a wide variety of opponents in such a way that he made every match feel big, even against guys like Awesome. He also benefits from being one of those guys that was highly visible in both the tape-trading period and the video-based internet boom which saw a lot of his big NOAH matches widely available on YouTube almost right away when it was still the "wild west" in some ways.

 

That being said, probably not a better big-match worker outside of Hashimoto in Japanese history. I'll have him high on my list.

[dawho5]

Here's my list, with negatives noted:

 

Kawada vs. Kobashi 7/1/89
TM2 vs. Kobasi 3/6/90
Kawada vs. Kobashi 6/30/90
Misawa vs. Kobashi 4/5/91 - handheld
Kawada vs. Kobashi 3/20/92
Kobashi vs. Misawa 4/12/93
Hansen vs. Kobashi 4/16/93 - handheld, must see
Kawada vs. Kobashi 10/23/93
Hansen vs. Kobashi 4/10/94
Kobashi vs. Kawada 1/19/95 - first 40 minutes is incredible
Kobashi vs. Misawa 3/26/95
Kawada vs. Kobashi 4/13/95
Kobashi/Hansen/Akiyama vs. Kawada/Ace/Omori 4/15/95
Kobashi vs. Ace 5/26/95
Misawa/Kobashi/Asako vs. Kawada/Taue/Honda 6/30/95
Misawa/Kobashi/Akiyama vs. Kawada/Kikuchi/Ogawa 7/8/95
Kobashi vs. Taue 7/24/95
Kobashi vs. Misawa 10/25/95 - Kobashi takes a lot of bad things from this and keeps doing them
Misawa vs. Kobashi 3/31/96
Kawada vs. Kobashi 5/24/96 - Kobashi repeating a nearfall so he gets a pop REALLY annoys me
Taue vs. Kobashi 7/24/96
Misawa/Akiyama vs. Kobashi/Patriot 11/22/96
Kobashi vs. Akiyama 3/30/97
Holy Demon Army vs. Kobashi/Ace 5/27/97 - Kobashi overdoing fighting spirit, he gets worse though
Kobashi vs. Hase 8/25/97
Misawa/Kawada/Hase vs. Kobashi/Taue/Akiyama 9/15/97
Holy Demon Army vs. Kobashi/Ace 10/11/97
Misawa/Akiyama vs. Kobashi/Ace 11/23/97
Holy Demon Army vs. Kobashi/Ace 11/27/97
Kobashi/Ace vs. Holy Demon Army 1/25/98
Kobashi/Ace/Smith vs. Misawa/Akiyama/Kea 2/14/98
Kobashi vs. Akiyama 3/98 Champion Carnival - does Kobashi really need to drop Akiyama on his head more than once in 98?
Kobashi/Akiyama vs. Takayama/Kakihara 4/98?
Holy Demon Army vs. Kobashi/Ace 6/5/98
Kobashi vs. Kakihara 7/15/98
Kobashi/Ace/Hase vs. Albright/Takayama/Kakihara 7/18/98
Kobashi/Kea vs. Akiyama/Hase 7/19/98
Akiyama vs. Kobashi 7/24/98 - more head drops for Akiyama this time around
Kobashi/Ace vs. Taue/Honda 8/23/98
Holy Demon Army vs. Kobashi/Kea 8/29/98
Taue vs. Kobashi 9/11/98
Holy Demon Army vs. Burning 10/11/98
Burning vs. the Untouchables (Misawa/Ogawa) 3/6/99
Kobashi vs. Akiyama 3/99 CC - anyone else seeing the pattern with head drops and Akiyama?
Kobashi vs. Vader 4/16/99 - must see
Kawada/Kobashi vs. Misawa/Taue 6/4/99 - must see
Misawa vs. Kobashi 6/11/99 - odd match that works until they just cycle through their bobms for nearfalls
Burning vs. Ace/Bart Gunn 6/9/99 - Kobashi feels the need to kill Gunn with a half nelson, so very necessary
No Fear vs. Kobashi/Shiga 7/4/99
Kobashi vs. Kakihara 7/16/99
Burning vs. Vader/Albright 7/23/99
Kobashi/Akiyama/Shiga vs. Ace/Barton/Mossman(Kea) 8/29/99
Kobashi/Akiyama/Shiga vs. Takayama/Omori/Fuchi 10/9/99
Burning vs. the Untouchables 10/23/99
Burning vs. No Fear 10/30/99
Burning vs. Untouchables 11/20/99
Kobashi/Akiyama/Shiga vs. Vader/Smith/Kea 11/27/99
Kawada vs. Kobashi 1/17/00 - Kobashi's selling is really weak and the match floats around between who is higher up on the card, odd match, also

Kawada's return from injury
Kobashi vs. Vader 2/27/00
Kawada/Taue/Fuchi vs. Misawa/Kobashi/Shiga 3/11/00
Kobashi vs. Smith 4/10/00
Kobashi vs. Misawa 4/2000
Kobashi vs. Takayama 5/26/00
Kobashi/Shiga vs. Akiyama/Kea 6/9/00 - again with the half nelsons, he killed that move so badly

[Karl]

Kobashi is my #1 guy...he gave me everything I could ever want from a wrestler, excluding promos.

[MJH]

Whilst I agree with dawho on Kobashi's positives (other than his matwork - what?), I can't understand most of those negatives. The notion that Kobashi can't structure a match was absurd enough when Lorefice would get on his horse way back when; it's patently ridiculous post-GHC when every match was well-structured in essentially the same way (opponent gives Kobashi a particular obstacle, he overcomes in, then falls prey to a big bump, generally off the apron, and then does the drawn-out Misawa-comeback). But the thing is... that's only an expanded version of a match-type he'd used frequently (usually in gimme-matches with guys lower on the totem pole) way back into the '90s. I mean if you want to say he overused the half-nelson relevant to its risk on the recipient, fair enough, though generally-speaking Kobashi took more punishment in matches than his opponents did, but, seriously, he couldn't structure a match?

 

More specifically - he didn't trust Akiyama? I'm assuming you mean to structure the match? I never got any sense other than that they were great friends dating back to Jun's debut (where Kobashi gave him a hell of a match), and probably before (i.e. when Jun was in the dojo). Nor do I know what the "lazy-Misawa-post-1/97" structure us, unless you mean "have the other guy kill him and do his damndest to make the crowd think the other guy had a shot before doing the drawn out comeback" (that Misawa was doing long before '97). As for Kobashi being a "glory hog" - I know what you mean, but I think calling him a glory hog is wrong; I can't think of a wrestler more willing to do whatever it takes, whatever bump necessary, to put the other guy over and for the match to work; but when you have such charisma, and you're such a visible worker in a company where most guys aren't, you're going to take more of the attention.

 

There's really not more I can say on Kobashi - he's a slam-dunk, bona fide, top 5 minimum.

[dawho5]

I've organized my thoughts on this a bit more, so here goes.

 

You see a definite difference in matches where Kobashi is working against Taue/Kawada and matches involving anyone else. In fact, you see a big difference between Kawada/Taue matches and Kobashi/Misawa/Akiyama matches as the 90s go on. In the continuing effort to top themselves, they chose distinct directions. Yes, there is variance within the two methods for sure. Kawada and Taue certainly had some different ways of going about things. As did Kobashi, Misawa and Akiyama. But the big split for me is the frequency of the big bombs and how they were used. Kawada/Taue had an approach that involved a lot of emphasis on the work between the big nearfalls and making those nearfalls count as much as they possibly could. Misawa/Akiyama/Kobashi placed more emphasis on the bombs themselves (very often to keep the crowd popping) and I think this applies especially to Kobashi. He fell in love with the response that all the big moves and nearfalls got. There is one match I highlighted where this becomes very clear. He hits some kind of neckbreaker variation, gets no pop at all on the nearfall and immediately does the same thing again so the crowd does pop. And I think this tendency of Kobashi's is curbed by Taue and Kawada, but his buddies Akiyama and Misawa choose to go along with it. And it produces those wonderful finishing runs where you see big suplex -> nearfall -> laying around to sell accumulated damage over and over again, which gets worse as they get to NOAH.

 

And the reason that I hold this against Kobashi so much is because there is so much that he does that I absolutely love. Kobashi working over a guy's ribs is a tremendous thing. Kobashi working as face-in-peril is so very incredible. Kobashi working 40 minutes of intense, gritty mat-based stuff with Kawada in the 1/19/95 match is absolutely amazing. When Kobashi decides to work a headlock, surfboard or knucklelock sequence it's always gold. But he very often reverts to "look at all the cool shit I can do" mode to get pops from the crowd and it really pisses me off when I think of all the other things he could be doing.

[MJH]

I'm sure that's a point we (and others) will be debating over the next 18 months (not that people haven't been discussing it about Kobashi for, what, twenty years? I'm assuming it started with the Doc match/es). I've always seen Kobashi as a "layout" guy, rather than a "moves" guy, even though he has the largest move-set of any wrestler I've ever seen. Even "Chopbashi" had more variants on them than most guys have moves (though the suplex into a chop was, yeah, a bit too similar to the Orange Crush for where he used it, true). Taue, for instance, I see more as a moves guy - I've said countless times that, for me, a "Taue match" is him throwing/building around his bombs, essentially working a sprint; he's not a "cerebral" worker at all.

 

Nor have I ever really considered much of Kobashi's output as overkill in the way others have, maybe some of the Akiyama matches (though you have to take the setting into account for the '04 match). The Sasaki match in '05, for instance, I've always seem as an impeccably laid out "mirrors" match, though certainly a distant relative to the 10/97 Misawa match. Could the chop exchange have been shorter? Sure, but that's both the point and, again, The Dome. Had he worked that segment with, I dunno, Shiga (to be as ridiculous as possible) yes, but he worked it with Kensuke Sasaki. 10/98 vs. Misawa is a beautifully laid out match (I'll go into more detail when I do a full breakdown but IIRC the opening 5-10 is as perfectly-worked an "establishment" section as you'll see, it's far from "all about the moves"), 3/03 (for the signs of their age/breaking down) is too.

 

I really wouldn't harper on about mat-work though; you could count on one hand (well, maybe two) the number of times the NJ guys actually established anything with it; whilst AJ starts were, aesthetically, much faster, "hotter", more involved, they'd also use it to establish the roles, set up the story, etc, and actually starting building the match asmore than just a guise of doing so.

[Jmare007]

The more I re-watch from Kobashi, the more he falls of my list of puro guys. Dude is still in the elite but 7 years ago he would've been in my top 10, now it's more of 20-30 kinda guy.

[fxnj]

I've gone the opposite route in that when I was first getting into AJPW I had a great time watching him but never questioned that Misawa and Kawada were better. But his incredible retirement tag and just feeling the incredible will he had to inspire really made me realize that he might have always been my favorite. Fuck Dusty Rhodes's son of a plumber shit; I really haven't seen anybody better than Kobashi at encapsulating the struggles of the common man in his performances and making me want to keep chasing my dreams. I never think about "overkill" when watching his matches (or any match for that matter) because, as cliche as it sounds, it was his character to show how not just how far hard work could get you but that giving it your all to the bitter end represents a victory in itself. That point when he became the first man to kick out of the TD91 may be the greatest near fall ever.

[DylanZero]

While true there are certainly negatives to him, especially once he got to the Chopbashi days. He really strikes me as someone that maybe analyzing him on a more technical level about what moves he uses and when, his timing and all of the little things that make wrestlers great might not be the right way to grade THIS guy as a wrestler. He really made you (Me, anyway) feel his matches and get involved emotionally in a way almost no other man in the history of the business has. You just have to kinda let yourself go along for his rides to fully appreciate his greatness as a professional wrestler.

 

But even then I will say there are times where he totally would go too far over the top at times and even I kinda got taken out of his matches on a few different occasions such as a couple of the Misawa matches and especially the HDA match teaming with Ace. And for the purposes of this poll where you do have to look at him under a bit of a microscope he kinda misses out on just enough little things that time goes on to knock him down on my ballot outside of the top 3 or so as we talk right now, though not that far. A Top 10 spot is likely and top 5/best of the Four Corners isn't out of reach if his top end stuff still gets to me the way it did when I first started watching puroresu. Can't see his floor being any lower than a top 15 appearance but again he's someone I very much look forward to watching. Especially the match where he kicked out of the TD91 that fxnj mentioned which I remember vividly as a time I jumped out of my seat in excitement at that. It really was such a well timed and great moment.

 

And just to go back to the natural talent argument, I have to agree with Childs' assessment. He never struck me as a wonder kid of wrestling who had an amazing natural skillset. To me he was the guy who overcame his flaws and truly, and not to be corny, exemplified fighting spirit in every sense of the words throughout his real life journey to the top. When it comes to the Four Corners I break them down at their most base level as Misawa being the natural talent, well rounded guy, Kawada hit the hardest and was the toughest, Taue exemplified a big man and power wrestling, and Kobashi had the most heart, the most charisma, and wanted it the most every time he got in the ring.

[MJH]

Just to isolate that match for a second, I watched the 5/97 Kobashi/Ace vs. Kawada/Taue match. It's a good stretch without being anything out of the ordinary for them, but I don't see what you mean about Kobashi "over-doing fighting spirit". I kept waiting for a massive string of no-sells that never came. He fires up off the trip-nodowa to hit the lariat for the finish (Kobashi firing up off the trip-nodowa being a pretty staple spot for those two), but I found nothing egregious in that and in the grand scheme of babyfaces firing up it's really nothing at all, especially with him lying flat on his back exhausted after getting the pin.

[Childs]

I just watched his 7/24/98 match with Akiyama, and Kobashi was fantastic, balancing vulnerability with his trademark resilience and the fact he was the boss in relation to Jun. Not many guys could have pulled off that performance.

[dawho5]

90-95% of what Kobashi does is anywhere from good to absolutely brilliant to me. It's that 5-10% that works my last nerve and seems to wipe all the good stuff out when I'm watching. I've said it before privately, but Kobashi is a huge blind spot for me in something like this. Because there's stuff he does that I can't get past even if I know he's an incredible worker otherwise. So if I come across as overly negative on the guy, I apologize. It's just for whatever reason a lot of his negative qualities hit me just the right way where I forget the many more positives he brings to the table.

[Shining Wiz]

I just watched the Kobashi/Misawa 4/5/91 handheld. Really fun 13 minute match. I like the "epic" matches they have just fine, but watching them in such a lean, crisp, quick match was a treat.

[Gus_McCrae]

I just watched that Kawada vs. Kobashi match from 6/30/90 and it was pretty weird. The structure was very unusual, they start to go at it pretty heavy then Kobashi slaps on a chin lock? It eventually turns into a fun brawl inducing some old school schoolyard rolls. Eventually Kobashi does some nasty nasty leg work that I loved. Clover leaf, one legged crab, figure four, a really cool double leg bar spot, something that I think I'd call a horse collar crab... Sick stuff, super nasty. But 45 seconds after the leg work portion is done, Kawada never sells the leg and Kobashi never gets back to it. After a while they start exchanging and countering big spots but it ends abruptly on a reversals of a couple of roll-ups. Fun, very cool match. Kobashi was awesome outside of a botched cross body outside the ring. Kawada was really disappointing.

 

I think I'll make an effort to watch a bunch more of this matchup in sequential order, because you can tell they are to some degree figuring it out.

 

I've see a bunch of Kobashi before, but Kawada really only in the pimped tags and it was a long time ago. So it should be fun. Kobashi did nothing here to make me think he shouldn't be near the top of my list, which was my impression going in. While Kawada didn't show me anything that would justify the love he's been getting. More to come.

[dawho5]

Early Kobashi is easily my favorite Kobashi. Up until 95 he's absolutely incredible in everything for me. Kawada takes a while longer to put it all together, but once 92-93 hits I'm more into him than Kobashi usually. That being said, 1993 Kenta Kobashi is probably a top 5 pick easy for me.

[Graham Crackers]

Early Kobashi is easily my favorite Kobashi. Up until 95 he's absolutely incredible in everything for me. Kawada takes a while longer to put it all together, but once 92-93 hits I'm more into him than Kobashi usually. That being said, 1993 Kenta Kobashi is probably a top 5 pick easy for me.

I dunno, Kawada was a really a good tag worker in 1988/89. He was still a step behind Fuyuki but was still a big part of why those matches were great.

[Lee Casebolt]

 

Early Kobashi is easily my favorite Kobashi. Up until 95 he's absolutely incredible in everything for me. Kawada takes a while longer to put it all together, but once 92-93 hits I'm more into him than Kobashi usually. That being said, 1993 Kenta Kobashi is probably a top 5 pick easy for me.

I dunno, Kawada was a really a good tag worker in 1988/89. He was still a step behind Fuyuki but was still a big part of why those matches were great.

 

 

'89 Kawada reminds me a little of WWE Daniel Bryan or Horsemen-era Benoit, an undersized heavyweight who takes a lot of beatings but has enough offense and works with enough pace and intensity to make himself look credible against significantly larger men.