(BP) Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 It occurred to me today that unless something completely unanticipated happens, John Cena will be the first ace under Vince to never have a public falling out with the WWE. He'll be omnipresent after his retirement, and he will probably be the goodwill ambassador for the company for as long as he chooses. This is a stark contrast to pretty much every other wrestler that's ever held his position since the late 70s. The issues that developed with Bruno, Hogan, Warrior (short-term ace for the sake of argument), Bret, Austin, and Rock seem unlikely to occur with Cena. The specifics of those backstage problems are well-known, but big picture: What is it about Vince and the company ace that has caused history to repeat itself in slightly varied ways over the last forty years? What is it about Cena that's different? Is the core problem always Vince's business practices and his personality? Has he mellowed? Is it the nature of the spot? Has the company changed, or is there a generational shift in attitudes that sets Cena apart from his predecessors? Does the lack of competition as a leverage tool for Cena play a role? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 It occurred to me today that unless something completely unanticipated happens, John Cena will be the first ace under Vince to never have a public falling out with the WWE. He'll be omnipresent after his retirement, and he will probably be the goodwill ambassador for the company for as long as he chooses. This is a stark contrast to pretty much every other wrestler that's ever held his position since the late 70s. The issues that developed with Bruno, Hogan, Warrior (short-term ace for the sake of argument), Bret, Austin, and Rock seem unlikely to occur with Cena. The specifics of those backstage problems are well-known, but big picture: What is it about Vince and the company ace that has caused history to repeat itself in slightly varied ways over the last forty years? What is it about Cena that's different? Is the core problem always Vince's business practices and his personality? Has he mellowed? Is it the nature of the spot? Has the company changed, or is there a generational shift in attitudes that sets Cena apart from his predecessors? Does the lack of competition as a leverage tool for Cena play a role? Cena is the first ace that isn't the one drawing business, it is the WWE brand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 Cena only has had one non-wrestling issue to deal with as well and that was his divorce....he has been so squeaky clean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBadMick Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 'Does the lack of competition as a leverage tool for Cena play a role?' I think that it does, even subconsciously. Cena's been treated great by his employers, and seems to have no interest in anything except being a wwe ace/spokesman/cheerleader. Still, it's human nature to look around, and see if opportunities exist elsewhere - grass is always greener on the other side and all that. IF competition existed, Cena would be the strongest-willed person in the world not to at least take a look.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(BP) Posted March 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 I know they posture like the brand is bigger than any one star, and to a degree it's certainly true, but Vince also famously said about Cena, "That man feeds us," in a production meeting a couple of years ago. His dependence on Cena is no secret. As far as Cena's biggest issue, in 2013 he was apparently pissed about them bringing him back to TV early and trying to pressure him to work Hell in a Cell with a bad arm. I'm sure for someone who's come back insanely early from injuries before that that felt like he was being taken advantage of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBadMick Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 'The issues that developed with Bruno, Hogan, Warrior (short-term ace for the sake of argument), Bret, Austin, and Rock seem unlikely to occur with Cena' It's a generational thing too. The first 5 there would have had 'don't trust promoters' beaten into them from early in their careers. What Rock issues are we talking about here? Not renewing his contract in 2005? I think if Cena had that type of career waiting for him he would get testy with Vince's overly controlling ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(BP) Posted March 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 How much heat was there between Vince and the Rock is kind of up in the air. Vince probably thought Rock was his way into the movie business, and he definitely wanted him to sign another contract. Rock trying to separate himself from the WWE in the public consciousness might have been the worst part of it for Vince. Cena 's shot at him in that interview may have been the groundwork for a future match, but it was a couple of years before Rock returned and it sounded like something Vince drilled into his head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBadMick Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 So, Vince was getting pissy because someone left for a better offer, and distanced himself from wrestling in order to advance his career. Sounds like a re-do of the billionaire Ted skits a decade earlier. I think Vince is very lucky that he found someone like Cena - a capable enough company ace who has no ambitions beyond that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steenalized Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 He's starting to show up in more TV shows and movies, so we'll see about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 Cena hasn't had a public falling out with WWE. Yet. There's a long time for that to happen. Not suggesting it ever will because I'm not privy to Cena's personality, sensitivities, demands, insecurities, etc., but we're talking about people here. There's always a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 I think Cena is just more level-headed than any wrestler Vince has ever had on top. Wrestlers usually don't handle it well when their time as the top guy is over. He's never had a problem doing jobs, even when he probably should have, which tells me he is able to step outside of himself and see the big picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childs Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 In addition to being level-headed, Cena also embraces wholeheartedly the idea of being a face of the corporation. He seems to thrive on that "more than a wrestler" part of it to a degree most of the others didn't. Rock was probably more interested in becoming a corporation than being the face of somebody else's. Austin was more of an old school wrestler guy. Hogan was, like Rock, more a cult of self guy. Bruno had an unusually rigid integrity, which doesn't seem to be an issue for Cena. He's just a very good fit for what WWE is trying to be in this era. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyonthewall2983 Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 When I saw him on Larry King after the Benoit incident, I just knew WWE needed this guy as a public face of the company. Desperately. John Cena conducted himself very professionally and came off very educated to the questions he was asked. Almost the complete opposite of what Vince had been in interviews before. And reading all the things I have about how committed he is to being the company ace, I just get the feeling if Vince loses him the way he did some of those other guys he only has himself to blame. On top of everything else, what separates him from some of those other guys is that none of them grew up wanting to be professional wrestlers when they were kids. Not only that, he wanted to be WWF champion, which tells me if there was WCW-level competition this whole time he'd still be loyal to Vince and everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fakeplastictrees Posted March 20, 2015 Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 I think the biggest thing (aside from everything else mentioned in this thread) is that Cena isn't a mark for himself. Cena understands that this is a business and he has positioned himself to be in a good spot. Losing the title, losing matches, being in the mid-card, jobbing to K-Fed, non of that means as much to Cena as it did to Hogan, Warrior, etc. as Cena realizes the check is still the same at the end of the night and that he is going to be over-like-rover so being in the mid-card will not hurt his 'brand'. Hogan had to 'worry' about people inside and outside of WWE with a possible stronger brand than his. Others had to worry about shady promoters. Cena doesn't have to worry about anything as there is no company with a stronger brand than WWE and no wrestler inside or outside that can take his spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted March 20, 2015 Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 For all the crap Cena gets, now that he's being phased down, I think his value is going to become more apparent. They are going to have quite a difficult time replacing him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted March 20, 2015 Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 Regarding The Rock, part of the falling out was Vince getting pissy over him playing a gay man in Be Cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted March 20, 2015 Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 Wasn't part of the issue Rock being a little upset that his contract was allowed to expire like some jabroni and not say, the fucking Rock? Plus it was pretty clear when Cena was taking shots at him that it was Vince's words coming out of his mouth. I wonder too what will happen when Cena's not only no longer "the guy" but not being protected as much as he has been. For all the talk of how even tempered he is, I don't think there's ever been a star at his level who didn't balk at the thought of having to start doing jobs like the normal folks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(BP) Posted March 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 Wow, never heard the Be Cool story. I don't know if Cena will ever be a gatekeeper. I guess we'll see how the Rusev feud plays out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parties Posted March 20, 2015 Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 Bruno’s beef with Vince came almost 30 years into his run with the company. Bret’s issues came after 12 years, at the moment that his career was supposed to be winding down, which sounds a lot like where Cena's at right now. There’s obv. no WCW or steroid scandal here to cause a ruckus, but it’s not impossible that something would set Cena off. He’s a company man, but that was true of half the guys you listed, and there are some big questions - concussions, unionization, salaries in an “over the top” media landscape, the power struggle surrounding Vince - that Cena could have a role in over years to come. Do HHH and Cena get along well?If I had to guess, I’d say Cena ends up as a weird hybrid of Johnny Ace and what Bret was supposed to be with his 20 year contract. He’ll work there forever and have a valued backstage title. The degree of fame he garners after Trainwreck comes out will be the indicator of his future. He seems poised to get a Batista-sized career in Hollywood after this, if the buzz around his performance is genuine. But everyone says the guy loves wrestling and is a workaholic, so he may be content as the world’s biggest and best version of the Miz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El McKell Posted March 20, 2015 Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 Is Cena the first WWF/WWE Ace to not have a public falling out with company? I never heard of any such thing with Bob Backlund, but maybe I just don't know about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childs Posted March 20, 2015 Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 Well, they've effectively pretended Backlund didn't exist for much of the last 30 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(BP) Posted March 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 They didn't have major heat, but Vince didn't want to expand with Backlund as the ace, and Backlund refused to turn heel, so they parted ways. I'm not that familiar with it besides a couple of Backlund interviews, and I don't know the story on his second run in 93. He's certainly a non-entity to them for the most part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted March 20, 2015 Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 They didn't have major heat, but Vince didn't want to expand with Backlund as the ace, and Backlund refused to turn heel, so they parted ways. I'm not that familiar with it besides a couple of Backlund interviews, and I don't know the story on his second run in 93. He's certainly a non-entity to them for the most part. I don't know if that's necessarily true. He had several cameo appearances after the '93 run, and he was inducted into the Hall of Fame a couple of years back. But he certainly isn't highlighted as often or treated with the same reverence as other past company aces. Then again, Bruno wasn't mentioned at all for decades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted March 20, 2015 Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 It probably doesn't help matters that Backlund is either the most committed to his gimmick guy in the history of wrestling or he's legit insane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Guitar Posted March 20, 2015 Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 Regarding The Rock, part of the falling out was Vince getting pissy over him playing a gay man in Be Cool. Made more ironic by the fact that Elmore Leonard based that character specifically on The Rock and although the movie tanked and was critically panned. The only performer to get good reviews across the board The Rock. Despite people heavyweight character actors like Harvey Keital and James Woods being in it. Bruno’s beef with Vince came almost 30 years into his run with the company. Bret’s issues came after 12 years, at the moment that his career was supposed to be winding down, which sounds a lot like where Cena's at right now. There’s obv. no WCW or steroid scandal here to cause a ruckus, but it’s not impossible that something would set Cena off. He’s a company man, but that was true of half the guys you listed, and there are some big questions - concussions, unionization, salaries in an “over the top” media landscape, the power struggle surrounding Vince - that Cena could have a role in over years to come. Do HHH and Cena get along well? If I had to guess, I’d say Cena ends up as a weird hybrid of Johnny Ace and what Bret was supposed to be with his 20 year contract. He’ll work there forever and have a valued backstage title. The degree of fame he garners after Trainwreck comes out will be the indicator of his future. He seems poised to get a Batista-sized career in Hollywood after this, if the buzz around his performance is genuine. But everyone says the guy loves wrestling and is a workaholic, so he may be content as the world’s biggest and best version of the Miz. It's weird that Cena gets labeled the "Ultimate company man". Because thats a label that was assigned to quite a few different people over the years. Until they fell out with Vince over something. Every man has his breaking point. Cena may take longer to reach his than others. It probably doesn't help matters that Backlund is either the most committed to his gimmick guy in the history of wrestling or he's legit insane. I hope it's the former. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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