supremebve Posted October 26, 2015 Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 No one outside this board thinks Nikki is better than Charlotte. You guys really are in a bubble if you think that's the consensus opinion anywhere other than here. It certainly isn't in the WWE. Come on now! A lot of talk about it on DVDVR and Reddit after last night as well. Let's see where you stand on this after another month. Just like when people starting to turn on Dolph, now they're starting to like Nikki. Same way people are starting to like Dana in NXT now. If Charlotte's last name was Jones, she'd still be in NXT. She isn't bad, but she still needs a good bit of polish on her in ring style. She's better than most of the Divas roster, but she still looks like someone trying to be a wrestler than a wrestler. She needs to learn how to look more natural in the ring. The wrinkles look like they can be ironed out, but they are pretty apparent right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted October 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 Will there be a reaction show podcast for this show? it's up and ready to go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death From Above Posted October 26, 2015 Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 I watched just the main event, which is pretty much the only thing I've seen this year aside from part of Wrestlemania. Lesnar is pretty much the only guy in WWE in 2015 that moves the needle for me at all, which is unfair to plenty of I'm sure other talented people, but does speak to their larger promotional issues right now. I enjoyed it. Really liked the mat ripping sequence because it was something so weird and different you just don't see. Undertaker has finally slowed down a lot, but still knows how to work within his confines and I was glad he didn't look too bad here. I also dug the doctor stoppage tease leading into Lesnar going kind of berserk itself. But it was two giant movie monsters throwing bombs, which is what I wanted to see. Nobody tuned into this to see guys exchange holds and given where Undertaker is at this point in his career this was probably better than I expected it to be. I have no real thoughts on the post-match angle because I'm not enough in the loop to really have an opinion. It seemed fine to me out of all context but the crowd was pretty dead which is sort of a red flag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russellmania Posted October 26, 2015 Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 Undertaker in his couple of matches since WM 30 has been really good because he has stopped trying to wrestle like 2007 Undertaker and wrestles more like a wily veteran. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted October 26, 2015 Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 If Charlotte's last name was Jones, she'd still be in NXT. She isn't bad, but she still needs a good bit of polish on her in ring style. She's better than most of the Divas roster, but she still looks like someone trying to be a wrestler than a wrestler. She needs to learn how to look more natural in the ring. The wrinkles look like they can be ironed out, but they are pretty apparent right now. The front flip thing she does during her ring entrance is usually the most fluid, natural looking thing she does in each match. If the rest of her match looked like her entrance, she would be good to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted October 26, 2015 Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 A lot of talk about it on DVDVR and Reddit after last night as well. Let's see where you stand on this after another month. Just like when people starting to turn on Dolph, now they're starting to like Nikki. Same way people are starting to like Dana in NXT now. I never disliked Nikki. She's no Sasha Banks, but she tries hard and has worked hard to improve. Plus, a great character like others are saying. Brie seemed like the standout at first, so Nikki's ascension is all the more surprising, but good for her. As for Dolph, I like him just fine - I just think he needs to turn desperately. He's a homewrecking man-whore tool who throws around words like "millennial" seemingly unironically. How is that a babyface character? It's possible none of those things are his fault, but his storylines aren't serving his character right now. I never hated Dana Brooke like the rest of the internet seemingly does. She didn't blow me away or anything, but I never minded her. The cool thing about NXT is seeing these guys and gals blossom as characters and/or in the ring in the span of a few short months: Becky Lynch, Blake and Murphy, Baron Corbin, etc. If Charlotte's last name was Jones, she'd still be in NXT. She isn't bad, but she still needs a good bit of polish on her in ring style. She's better than most of the Divas roster, but she still looks like someone trying to be a wrestler than a wrestler. She needs to learn how to look more natural in the ring. The wrinkles look like they can be ironed out, but they are pretty apparent right now. If Charlotte had a giant wart on her face, she'd still in NXT (or not in NXT at all). I really hate that kind of comment, because it's lazy and illogical criticism IMO. Being Flair's daughter means nothing if she sucks, and she doesn't. You said it yourself: "She's better than most of the Divas roster." That alone is enough to warrant her being on the main stage. It doesn't matter if she's not as good as you want her to be or think she should be - that argument is ridiculous, quite frankly. Can she get better? Yes. And she will. Even you acknowledge that her "wrinkles" can be "ironed out," so what's the problem exactly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted October 26, 2015 Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 From the March 23, 1998, with Dave discussing the Hogan-Savage cage match at Uncensored '98: Even with blood never being used in WCW (isn't that some sort of a violation of company policy, you know, like haven't guys lost their jobs over stuff like this in the past, oh yeah, silly me to think company policy has anything to do with stars in the company?), this got no heat which only made it worse. I demand moral outrage from Dave Meltzer. Or someone, anyone. It's only fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted October 26, 2015 Report Share Posted October 26, 2015 LOL at all of the silly posts about a Cena-H beef because of the way Nikki is being booked. Newsflash: No one outside this board thinks Nikki is better than Charlotte. You guys really are in a bubble if you think that's the consensus opinion anywhere other than here. It certainly isn't in the WWE. Come on now! With that said, Nikki has worked hard and has a great character, but I think Charlotte's ceiling is much higher if she keeps improving. In only a couple of years, she's already pretty good and more of a "natural" compared to Nikki's ten years doing this. It's easy to criticize Charlotte - and I've done it too (I don't think she's a good babyface at all) - but people seem to forget how new she is at all of this. Being Ric Flair's offspring isn't a magic elixir when it comes to wrestling ability, as we saw with David Flair. Also, it's ludicrous that there's any discussion of Nikki being "booked badly" when she just finished a record-breaking reign as Divas Champion. "Former champ gets a rematch and loses" is a standard - and boring - WWE trope, so I have no idea why people are suddenly acting like Nikki is being jobbed out. I tweeted about Nikki being by far the best worker on the show last night (this was during her match). It got something like 40 retweets. Of those 40 people, I'm not sure 5 are on this board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fakeplastictrees Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 Nikki being the best? Slapping her thigh after missing the top rope kick? Reversing the figure four and yet STILL grabbing for the ropes? There were some other things off in that match as well. Nikki works hard but surely she can't be placed withing the top five workers at HIAC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man in Blak Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 Reversing the figure four and yet STILL grabbing for the ropes? The big Charlotte/Natalya NXT match from 2014 completely fudged the figure four sequence near the finish as well, with Charlotte and Natalya rolling through it multiple times as "reversals," so maybe a trip back to the vault to study Tito and the Hammer would be wise (since the last thing Charlotte needs to see is any more of Ric's work). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Boricua Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 Reversing the figure four and yet STILL grabbing for the ropes? The big Charlotte/Natalya NXT match from 2014 completely fudged the figure four sequence near the finish as well, with Charlotte and Natalya rolling through it multiple times as "reversals," so maybe a trip back to the vault to study Tito and the Hammer would be wise (since the last thing Charlotte needs to see is any more of Ric's work). I can buy it based on Nikki having banged up her knee during the match. I know when I've had a banged up knee the last thing i want to do is have it supporting my weight (let alone someone else's) by lying on it and having the ground press up against it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donsem43 Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 That finish was terrible. Poorly planned and executed. What the hell was that top rope "counter"? Why was Charlotte able to get her finish after being slammed hard into apron thirty seconds earlier. Never mind that she completely screwed up applying it anyway. Why not just use a rollup for the finish? Nikki looked way better on Smackdown vs Paige. She just ran Paige into the ground. Actually came off as the asskicker the people think she looked like in this match but without screwing up a single spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man in Blak Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 Reversing the figure four and yet STILL grabbing for the ropes? The big Charlotte/Natalya NXT match from 2014 completely fudged the figure four sequence near the finish as well, with Charlotte and Natalya rolling through it multiple times as "reversals," so maybe a trip back to the vault to study Tito and the Hammer would be wise (since the last thing Charlotte needs to see is any more of Ric's work). I can buy it based on Nikki having banged up her knee during the match. I know when I've had a banged up knee the last thing i want to do is have it supporting my weight (let alone someone else's) by lying on it and having the ground press up against it. In the moment? Sure, fair point. In the match as a whole, especially when she rolls out of the ring immediately after that sequence, lands on the floor with a bounce on that knee, picks up Charlotte and slings her against the apron? I don't know. She does tap out shortly after that, I guess, but I can see where that moment takes away from the finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted October 27, 2015 Report Share Posted October 27, 2015 A lot of talk about it on DVDVR and Reddit after last night as well. Let's see where you stand on this after another month. Just like when people starting to turn on Dolph, now they're starting to like Nikki. Same way people are starting to like Dana in NXT now. I never disliked Nikki. She's no Sasha Banks, but she tries hard and has worked hard to improve. Plus, a great character like others are saying. Brie seemed like the standout at first, so Nikki's ascension is all the more surprising, but good for her. As for Dolph, I like him just fine - I just think he needs to turn desperately. He's a homewrecking man-whore tool who throws around words like "millennial" seemingly unironically. How is that a babyface character? It's possible none of those things are his fault, but his storylines aren't serving his character right now. I never hated Dana Brooke like the rest of the internet seemingly does. She didn't blow me away or anything, but I never minded her. The cool thing about NXT is seeing these guys and gals blossom as characters and/or in the ring in the span of a few short months: Becky Lynch, Blake and Murphy, Baron Corbin, etc. If Charlotte's last name was Jones, she'd still be in NXT. She isn't bad, but she still needs a good bit of polish on her in ring style. She's better than most of the Divas roster, but she still looks like someone trying to be a wrestler than a wrestler. She needs to learn how to look more natural in the ring. The wrinkles look like they can be ironed out, but they are pretty apparent right now. If Charlotte had a giant wart on her face, she'd still in NXT (or not in NXT at all). I really hate that kind of comment, because it's lazy and illogical criticism IMO. Being Flair's daughter means nothing if she sucks, and she doesn't. You said it yourself: "She's better than most of the Divas roster." That alone is enough to warrant her being on the main stage. It doesn't matter if she's not as good as you want her to be or think she should be - that argument is ridiculous, quite frankly. Can she get better? Yes. And she will. Even you acknowledge that her "wrinkles" can be "ironed out," so what's the problem exactly? She's better than most of the Divas roster, but the Divas roster kind of sucks. Charlotte is an OK wrestler who needs to work on a couple fundamental things to come off more naturally on television. That is what NXT is for. Her being Flair's daughter helps her a lot, because it is a ready made gimmick. Her father being a legend is a huge advantage for her, and they've used her father to get her over. I don't have a problem with that, but her in-ring work doesn't feel ready for PPV. The Divas division on the main roster seems to improve at a much slower pace than they do in NXT. If she was still in NXT she'd have the time to dedicate on getting better in the ring. Now her development is going to have to take a back seat to travel, TV, PPV, and whatever the hell else she is required to do. I'm not saying that she isn't talented, she's just put into a position where her warts are going show. She is basically a AAA baseball prospect who everyone expects to be a great pro, but that doesn't mean he ready to be going up against Clayton Kershaw. She's the champion of a division that has a couple people that are 100% ready, she's just not one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert S Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 Meltzer's (and Alvarez') comments about the main events were strange. Meltzer claimed that Lesnar's blood was hardway (though intentional) and both were talking about how Vince flipped backstate during the whole match, even implying that Lesnar (literally) throwing out the doctor was a shoot. Oh yes, and the line from Cole (or JBL, I forgot) that Wyatt and Reigns are only wrestlers number 34 and 35 to enter a HiaC match was really (unintentionally, of course) funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russellmania Posted October 28, 2015 Report Share Posted October 28, 2015 it seems really obvious to me that Lesnar bladed on the ringpost shot and bled hardway when hit with the steps. I keep seeing people insist that he hit the ringpost hardway and I just don't see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBadMick Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 Meltzer's (and Alvarez') comments about the main events were strange. Meltzer claimed that Lesnar's blood was hardway (though intentional) and both were talking about how Vince flipped backstate during the whole match, even implying that Lesnar (literally) throwing out the doctor was a shoot. Oh yes, and the line from Cole (or JBL, I forgot) that Wyatt and Reigns are only wrestlers number 34 and 35 to enter a HiaC match was really (unintentionally, of course) funny. What's funny about the 34 and 35 line? Don't get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 The funny part is the word "ONLY" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBadMick Posted October 29, 2015 Report Share Posted October 29, 2015 Oh right Thought maybe I'd forgotten something and they'd already been in one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted October 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 it seems really obvious to me that Lesnar bladed on the ringpost shot and bled hardway when hit with the steps. I keep seeing people insist that he hit the ringpost hardway and I just don't see it. Both were blade jobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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