Greatest pro-wrestling debacle

[El-P]

Of course, people are gonna think first and foremost about the Montreal screwjob, but I was watching the entire Big Van Vader debut in New Japan thingy, and man, what a complete booking debacle. I have litteraly no idea what was planned and what wasn't, as everything seems so fucked up. People starting throwing shit in the ring as soon as they announce Vader won't be part of the tag match, then Choshu getting them back by challenging Inoki, then the Hase run-in and the shit finish, then of course the quicky Inoki job to Vader, getting a very negative reaction from the crowd (although you don't really get the feeling of a riot at this point, unlike earlier during the tag match, it looks like it killed the crowd more than anything else, and they seem to leave rather quietly). What a mess.

People are gonna throw out the infamous "We want Flair" Great American Bash 91, or the last two years Royal Rumble (especially this year where they managed to have the Rock booed out of the building), but what are some of the most infamous debacles in pro-wrestling history ?

[Mad Dog]

The last two Royal Rumbles.

[WingedEagle]

1/4/99 Nitro.

 

Austin heel turn at Mania 17.

 

2014 Rumble, which was world's worse than 2015.

[Grimmas]

2014 Rumble, which was world's worse than 2015.

I think 2015 was worse, because they were stupid enough to do the same thing again.

[Bierschwale]

The main event for Clash X.

[Laz]

 

 

2014 Rumble, which was world's worse than 2015.

I think 2015 was worse, because they were stupid enough to do the same thing again.

Big difference. They handled Reigns well enough in the WM build to where the fans were elated to see Reigns get destroyed by Brock. They screwed the pooch bad enough in 2014 to get the fans so riled up that a change in plans was 100% necessary.

 

If we're strictly talking booking, I feel like something that actually killed a territory or promotion is going to win. 1/4/99 Nitro would be in the running but it was the lack of a proper follow up (Goldberg going house and doing what Sting couldn't by destroying the nWo for good) that makes it stand out as garbage.

 

I'm going to pick XPW. Just all of it.

[Bierschwale]

 

 

2014 Rumble, which was world's worse than 2015.

I think 2015 was worse, because they were stupid enough to do the same thing again.

Big difference. They handled Reigns well enough in the WM build to where the fans were elated to see Reigns get destroyed by Brock. They screwed the pooch bad enough in 2014 to get the fans so riled up that a change in plans was 100% necessary.

There's something for there to be said in that "Brock Lesnar vs. Roman Reigns" is not a match that has ever officially happened, though.

 

Are people still defending the WM 31 finish? Like, "well, it's the booking AFTER winning the title that has killed Rollins"? No, it's been bad from day 1 and that cash-in. And the win of that MITB match in the first place.

[Grimmas]

Another huge debacle was the handling of Punk after he won at Money in the Bank 2011. Coming back a week or two later and then being put into feuds with Triple H and Nash. This guy was the hottest act they had in maybe a decade and the blew it very very quickly.

[Grimmas]

 

 

2014 Rumble, which was world's worse than 2015.

I think 2015 was worse, because they were stupid enough to do the same thing again.

Big difference. They handled Reigns well enough in the WM build to where the fans were elated to see Reigns get destroyed by Brock. They screwed the pooch bad enough in 2014 to get the fans so riled up that a change in plans was 100% necessary.

 

If we're strictly talking booking, I feel like something that actually killed a territory or promotion is going to win. 1/4/99 Nitro would be in the running but it was the lack of a proper follow up (Goldberg going house and doing what Sting couldn't by destroying the nWo for good) that makes it stand out as garbage.

 

I'm going to pick XPW. Just all of it.

 

Even if they did handle him better post Rumble (which I don't think they really did) that night was a horrible debacle.

[Coffey]

The Money in the Bank concept as a whole is a debacle. Completely devaluing championships, championship matches, contendership & champions. Throwing all of that away for a shock title switch? Just really short-sighted.

 

 

...as bad as WWE is for doing that, other promotions copying it is even worse! In a lot of other federations now, even New Japan Pro-Wrestling, you see someone carrying a briefcase.

[...TG]

I wouldn't call this great, but ECW's handling of New Jack assault on Eric "Mass Transit" Kulas was an all-around fiasco. Even the wikipedia article has a victim-blaming section.

[The Chief]

Sting vs Hogan at Starrcade 1997. There wasn't a single thing executed properly in that fiasco.

[dawho5]

Depends where you are coming from. If you're Hogan, Nash or Hall things certainly went better than the alternative.

[WingedEagle]

 

 

 

2014 Rumble, which was world's worse than 2015.

I think 2015 was worse, because they were stupid enough to do the same thing again.

Big difference. They handled Reigns well enough in the WM build to where the fans were elated to see Reigns get destroyed by Brock. They screwed the pooch bad enough in 2014 to get the fans so riled up that a change in plans was 100% necessary.

 

If we're strictly talking booking, I feel like something that actually killed a territory or promotion is going to win. 1/4/99 Nitro would be in the running but it was the lack of a proper follow up (Goldberg going house and doing what Sting couldn't by destroying the nWo for good) that makes it stand out as garbage.

 

I'm going to pick XPW. Just all of it.

 

Even if they did handle him better post Rumble (which I don't think they really did) that night was a horrible debacle.

 

 

Think '15 was much more defensible given the health issues Bryan had the year before. Count me in line with those wanting a Bryan win, but this year I understood the decision.

[The Chief]

 

 

 

 

 

 

2014 Rumble, which was world's worse than 2015.

I think 2015 was worse, because they were stupid enough to do the same thing again.

Big difference. They handled Reigns well enough in the WM build to where the fans were elated to see Reigns get destroyed by Brock. They screwed the pooch bad enough in 2014 to get the fans so riled up that a change in plans was 100% necessary.

 

If we're strictly talking booking, I feel like something that actually killed a territory or promotion is going to win. 1/4/99 Nitro would be in the running but it was the lack of a proper follow up (Goldberg going house and doing what Sting couldn't by destroying the nWo for good) that makes it stand out as garbage.

 

I'm going to pick XPW. Just all of it.

Even if they did handle him better post Rumble (which I don't think they really did) that night was a horrible debacle.

Think '15 was much more defensible given the health issues Bryan had the year before. Count me in line with those wanting a Bryan win, but this year I understood the decision.

It's really awful for reasons other than Bryan not winning though. Everything about that match screamed WE DON'T CARE WHAT YOU THINK. Bray Wyatt gets a nice little Rumble push, so does he last to the final two? No, he's casually dumped by Kane and Big Show. Health issues or not Bryan didn't need to be dumped like a complete loser, you could still eliminate him, just put some effort into it. You still could have had two monster heels team up and eliminate everyone and made it work. Why weren't Wyatt and Rusev in those spots? No, instead we got Kane and Big Show standing over the entire roster in 2015.

[WingedEagle]

Don't recall the push or use of Wyatt, as I've never been a fan past the videos leading to his debut and the Shield feud so prefer to see him gone sooner rather than later. On Bryan, if you weren't having him win it made sense to remove him early so that he wasn't the focus at the finish.

[funkdoc]

the issue was that wyatt was the focal point of the entire first half of the match, eliminating a ton of guys

 

bryan coming out when he did was perfectly logical since that would be a great matchup to begin the second half of the match, so it was dumb to have both of them be eliminated with no fanfare and barely a mention from the commentators.

[Strummer]

2014 Rumble was worse. In 2015 at least they were trying to (in theory) create a new star even if the execution was handled the worst way possible. 2014 was the company stubbornly plugging their ears with their fingers while turning their backs to the live crowds. Both were disasters but 2014 was pure ego and incredibly short sighted

[Jingus]

Financially speaking, I still don't think there's ever been a worse booking decision than the 1-2 combo punch of beating Goldberg and then the Fingerpoke. Combined with the horrible NWO-dominated followup, it just broke the fanbase's faith in WCW ever breaking out of their self-destructive rut. Ratings slowly but consistently trended downward from that point onward. If you check the buyrates, every single WCW ppv in 1999 did a significantly worse number than the corresponding show in 1998. The only exception was Superbrawl; 1999's show, where Flair was prepared to get righteous revenge on Hogan (which he failed to do, sending the buyrates afterwards spiraling ever-downward) did the same number as the 1998 show, which was loaded up with stale rematches including Hogan/Sting 2 which nobody really wanted to see.

 

Are people still defending the WM 31 finish? Like, "well, it's the booking AFTER winning the title that has killed Rollins"? No, it's been bad from day 1 and that cash-in. And the win of that MITB match in the first place.

Hell yeah I'll defend it, your quote perfectly described the whole thing. It was the perfect way out of a match that the fanbase was shitting upon the very idea of. Nobody wanted Reigns to become champ, but Brock had held the belt for more than long enough and it was past time to get the world title onto not-a-part-timer. (Immediately after this, Brock promptly took over three months off; clearly he didn't want to stick around.) Considering all of the above, having Rollins make history by doing the first-ever MitB cash-in at Wrestlemania was a pretty brilliant solution to their various problems. It's not Mania's fault that they decided afterwards to book Seth so poorly that it looks like they've got a bet to see if they can make him be the most unprotected champion in history.

 

Depends where you are coming from. If you're Hogan, Nash or Hall things certainly went better than the alternative.

Only in the short term. Less than four years later, the company was out of business. And both Hogan and Hall were sent home long before the doors finally closed.

 

Don't recall the push or use of Wyatt, as I've never been a fan past the videos leading to his debut and the Shield feud so prefer to see him gone sooner rather than later. On Bryan, if you weren't having him win it made sense to remove him early so that he wasn't the focus at the finish.

But the general audience was a pretty big fan of Wyatt, so it doesn't make sense to see him gone sooner rather than later. And considering how the entire crowd totally shit on the rest of the Rumble from the point that Bryan was eliminated, maybe they shoulda kept that guy in there until the end.

[The Chief]

They were also prepping Wyatt for Undertaker at Mania. Why wouldn't they want him to look strong?

 

Picture Diesel in the 1994 Rumble. He still does the consecutive eliminations, everything remains the same, except he gets casually tossed by the Headshrinkers off camera. Does he get as over?

[Ship Canal]

I'll throw in WCW's tour of the UK in 2000. I don't think for a second its the greatest pro wrestling debacle of all time, but it may be the greatest debacle I've ever witnessed in the flesh.

The advertizing indicated it would TV tapings featuring big names - many of them with their images on the tickets itself.

Considering how hot the UK crowd was in that year, even given WCW's descent into complete dogshit, these shows could have been the equivalent of when TNA manages to at least present the illusion of relevancy by rocking up in the UK a few times a year and at least just lapping up being able to draw a half decent crowd... hell, even if not just for morale purposes for the staff and the rest of the workers.

What happened instead was a selection of shows which to this day are spoke of amongst UK fans as some of the most underwhelming, awful of all time on these shores. We thought we'd get a touch of stardust from a declining company with enough people of name value to justify the ticket price.

What we got was a Harris Brothers vs Mamalukes main event and a bunch of matches that might have been pretty good in another time and another place completely when the people involved were working for a company they had some kind of pride in, or were about 15 years younger.

This review is worth reading, from someone else unlucky enough to be there.

http://www.angelfire.com/wrestling3/ukmania/7thShow.html

 

This was the most surreal match I've ever seen. No heat whatsoever. They did hardcore wrestling spots with various objects (great - the third match of the evening to feature this). Then Ron (or was it Don) got so pissed off about the lack of crowd heat that he actually got on the house mic and yelled at us all to 'care more about this damn match'. Can you believe this? Naturally then, the boos started. Chants of 'What a Rip-off' and 'We want our money back' could be heard. By my estimates, about a quarter of the fans in attendance (roughly about 4,000 fans) left during this match. Match was bad, but that was to be expected. I think Vito pinned one of the Harris brothers after a garbage-can lid shot. After the match, people began throwing stuff at the Harris Brothers as they walked to the back. As Big Vito walked to the back, he used the f-word and swore at a fan. Johnny The Bull wasn't confrontational at all, probably because most of crowd recognised him as a young wrestler just starting out, and actually clapped him as he walked past. He gave the people I was sitting with a thumbs up, and let us touch his tag team championship belt. So overall, a bad show, and as Dave Meltzer described it at the time, in his Wrestling Observer Newsletter, it was '...typical of the WCW, 'shoot-yourself-in-the-foot' mentality of the time....'. As I was leaving, I saw Terry Taylor lurking by the raised curtain on the stage area (mentioned earlier), and I couldn't resist it. I yelled at him "What were you thinking, booking that main event? Why didn't you put the Jarrett match on last?" He just looked at me, shrugged his shoulders and disappeared into the back. I know, I didn't expect him to stand there and actally explain to me the booking decision. I was just so frustrated that WCW, in front of a sellout crowd of over 16,000, had just blown another golden opportunity to improve their fortunes."

[Anders]

I would think AAA's entire 2015 has fucked them up.

[goc]

 

 

 

2014 Rumble, which was world's worse than 2015.

I think 2015 was worse, because they were stupid enough to do the same thing again.

Big difference. They handled Reigns well enough in the WM build to where the fans were elated to see Reigns get destroyed by Brock. They screwed the pooch bad enough in 2014 to get the fans so riled up that a change in plans was 100% necessary.

There's something for there to be said in that "Brock Lesnar vs. Roman Reigns" is not a match that has ever officially happened, though.

 

Are people still defending the WM 31 finish? Like, "well, it's the booking AFTER winning the title that has killed Rollins"? No, it's been bad from day 1 and that cash-in. And the win of that MITB match in the first place.

 

Actually yea, I'll go with this for the worst recent debacle. The finish to WrestleMania 31 was fucking garbage and way worse than the build up. I thought the stuff with Roman Reigns & Daniel Bryan leading up to Mania was actually really good. I don't think they were wrong to not go with Bryan in the main event the part where they were idiots was bringing him back BEFORE the Rumble when they could have just as easily had him come back the night after.

 

The stupid MITB cash in ruined what was up to that point one of the best WrestleMania main events ever. And then had almost NO follow up as they had Brock Lesnar go crazy the next night so he could disappear again and Reigns sunk into the background so we could have what feels like half of a 3 hour Raw dedicated to Rollins talking segments when he's not even all that good as a promo.

[Bierschwale]

I was going to address Jingus, but yeah, exactly. There's so many problems with it-- and frankly the first is that there was no demand for Rollins as champ. He wasn't over enough to be your lead heel worker before winning the title. But the MITB gimmick made it an inevitability.

 

It was also never addressed during his reign as "Mr. Money in the Bank" (since it is a de facto title), when it was pushed that his title win would be inevitable, that anyone might want to win it from him, even though matches where the briefcase was put up regularly happened for previous winners. Ambrose got screwed in the original match for it, but the actual MITB contract never came up and they never had a match for it. Ziggler pinned him to win the Survivor Series match and they never brought up the prospect that he would get a shot at it. Reigns never went after him for it. Bryan never went after him. Orton didn't go after it. So he had spent nine months as an insufferable chump where they could gauge whether or not he should get the title except that he was just "MR. MONEY IN THE BANK" and that was that.

 

Everything after WM is just a rehash of that, except that he actually has to defend that title. Hell, the Cena feud with the tables match at TLC (where Cena could lose his #1 contendership, but Rollins couldn't lose the briefcase) was just a preview of their actual title feud.

[Loss]

My biggest problem was that they booked themselves into a corner with the WM31 main event. They stuck with that match as their plan for months despite plenty of evidence that they should change course, which to me means you have the balls to give a finish and live with the consequences of it.